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Greiner Eng. Sum.mation
Old 25th September 2012
  #1
Gear Addict
 
Sen's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Greiner Eng. Sum.mation

Hi guys,
Is anyone using this summing box yet? How does the automation work on it? Any issues? What's the overall sound like?

Thanks very much
Old 26th September 2012
  #2
Gear Maniac
 
joelgtrnut's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I talked to Scott many months ago about this box. As far as I know it hasn't been released yet because he hasn't hit me back about it being available. I told him to put me on the list for the 1st run.

This looks very promising. Even if it sounds terrible, which I highly doubt it will, the automation w/ direct outs can be used on your summing box/console of choice. For me it is a no brainier. I've been waiting for something like this for years!
Old 26th September 2012
  #3
Gear Addict
 
Sen's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
As far as I could gather from the website, it has a passive mode as well, so you can amplify the stereo out with your choice of pre.
So when's it gonna be available Scott?
Old 26th September 2012
  #4
Lives for gear
 
LeMauce's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I just come back from San Francisco where GET is based.
I got just one here on the shelf on the moment. I think there are 2 or 3 now otm in France.

Sunday I will hook it up in my system, I have to finish some projects before breaking open my 19inch rack/patch bay and all.

In my case I will use it with/on:
SSL Alphalink AX -> normalized patch bay -> Sum:mation and I will break the normalisation with outboard when needed (like 1176's, LA2a etc).

For your info:
Its a 16ch/2Active/2passive channel summing mixer. VCA controlled. BUT you have also 16outputs. So you can put the Sum:mation on the inserts for example on a old 1604/1608 API for giving it DAW driven automation on the analog path.

BUT I don't want to steal the thread/info from the men himself. So I shell wait when he is in this topic.

I will hit back here when it is all hooked up and going how I want it and then will do some ITB mix and OTB with the sum:mation.
Old 26th September 2012
  #5
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Hi gang! Thanks for your continued interest in sum.mation - it's really inspiring!

sum.mation is designed and built and working great in a few studios, but the back-end business is still being built. I truly apologies for the long wait. I changed countries recently, and so am rebuilding the empire (new suppliers, new tax laws ) There is currently a waiting list for sum.mation, and everyone who has contacted me is on it (in order). As soon as I get caught up with the list, sum.mation will be available from the web-store on the greiner engineering tools site. I've also spoken to a few distributors and retailers that you all know & trust, so it will soon be available to more people.

As I get more documentation, youtube videos, etc out on the internet, I'll be sure to post it here, as well as through the email list. Thanks for starting a thread - I'm flattered!
Old 27th September 2012 | Show parent
  #6
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by juniorhifikit ➑️
Hi gang! Thanks for your continued interest in sum.mation - it's really inspiring!

sum.mation is designed and built and working great in a few studios, but the back-end business is still being built. I truly apologies for the long wait. I changed countries recently, and so am rebuilding the empire (new suppliers, new tax laws ) There is currently a waiting list for sum.mation, and everyone who has contacted me is on it (in order). As soon as I get caught up with the list, sum.mation will be available from the web-store on the greiner engineering tools site. I've also spoken to a few distributors and retailers that you all know & trust, so it will soon be available to more people.

As I get more documentation, youtube videos, etc out on the internet, I'll be sure to post it here, as well as through the email list. Thanks for starting a thread - I'm flattered!
awesome. ever consider doing custom work? how much do you think a 32 channel version with transformers on every channel
Old 27th September 2012 | Show parent
  #7
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajbianco ➑️
awesome. ever consider doing custom work? how much do you think a 32 channel version with transformers on every channel
As far as the summing, two units can already be cascaded to give you 32 channels on one summing bus. For console automation on inserts using sum.mation's direct outputs, you can plug in as many as you have USB ports on your computer. 96 channels? Sure, no problem! Just buy 6 sum.mations!

No room for transformers in this box, but you'll be hitting all of your vintage goodness before going into sum.mation, so you can get your color there!
Old 27th September 2012
  #8
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Any chance we'll ever see a stand-alone version of this, where we won't need to use it as a VST plugin inside a DAW ? I'd love to use this box with my RADAR recorder and/or my tape machines.
Old 27th September 2012
  #9
Gear Addict
 
Sen's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Hi Scott,
So the automated levels are recallable in DAW yeah?
Could you explain how the automation will work, be written etc...?
Is it just the matter of drawing the moves in the DAW as you would normaly?
Thanks.
Old 27th September 2012 | Show parent
  #10
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiritworks ➑️
Any chance we'll ever see a stand-alone version of this, where we won't need to use it as a VST plugin inside a DAW ? I'd love to use this box with my RADAR recorder and/or my tape machines.
I'm afraid it would not be cost effective. It would cost me perhaps ten times the price of a cheap DAW to design this. I would suggest buying a cheap computer and the most basic DAW to run your automation, slaved to your RADAR.

Currently we've only built the RTAS plugin, so you'd have to use Pro Tools. Soon we will finish the AU and VST plugins, so you could use any DAW of your choice.
Old 27th September 2012 | Show parent
  #11
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sen ➑️
Hi Scott,
So the automated levels are recallable in DAW yeah?
Could you explain how the automation will work, be written etc...?
It's quite simple: You place a plugin in your session for each sum.mation channel you want to control. I like to put them on the tracks I'll be automating, but you can put them anywhere (dummy tracks, etc). The plugin's fader is automated just like any other plugin parameter you would automate. This controls the volume of the corresponding sum.mation channel. There's also a stereo version of the plugin to easily control stereo pairs of tracks.
Quote:
Is it just the matter of drawing the moves in the DAW as you would normaly?
Thanks.
Yep, exactly. You can use the mouse, a controller, the mod wheel on your keyboard... To use any external controller (besides the mouse), just hit the "External Control" button; learn the controller by hitting the "Learn" button and wiggling your controller; then you're good to go! Kind of like hitting the fader status button on an SSL.

Here's a screen shot of the plugin:



Old 28th September 2012
  #12
Gear Addict
 
Sen's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Thanks Scott..Another thing, if it makes sense.
Would there be any possibility of any sync issues between the audio signal and data hitting the summation unit?
Old 28th September 2012 | Show parent
  #13
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sen ➑️
Thanks Scott..Another thing, if it makes sense.
Would there be any possibility of any sync issues between the audio signal and data hitting the summation unit?
Nope
It connects to the computer via class-complient USB - no drivers necessary. No possibility of sync issues. Just plug & play!
Old 29th September 2012
  #14
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Subscribed. This box seems to be exactly what IΒ΄ve been waiting for. CanΒ΄t wait to hear the first user reports.
Old 3rd October 2012
  #15
Lives for gear
 
LeMauce's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I'm on it peeps. Just waiting for my new made to fit Dsub cables... only I have to go down south to mix a album this upcoming week. So it would be in a good week before I really can test drive. I will have then also my outboards back.
Let you guys now.
Old 4th October 2012 | Show parent
  #16
Gear Addict
 
Sen's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeMauce ➑️
Let you guys now.
You better do
Old 6th October 2012
  #17
Lives for gear
 
Mind-Over-Midi's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I've been waiting for something like this for a long time! Is there a price yet? Thanks.

Old 6th October 2012
  #18
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
$2500

Web store should be open soon. Meanwhile, we're getting units out to the people on the waiting list.
Old 10th October 2012
  #19
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Any chance of adding Pan knobs with automation to this box?
Old 10th October 2012 | Show parent
  #20
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frantz ➑️
Any chance of adding Pan knobs with automation to this box?
I'm afraid there's just no room in the box. It would also be twice as many components, and thus twice the price.
Old 13th October 2012
  #21
Lives for gear
 
DirkB's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Unbelievable that I overlooked the genius simplicity of this system.

Best thing is: I just bought a 32ch D&R Orion in excellent shape for my new studio and this system solves the last hurdle: post insert analog automation, assignable to any insert and controlled by my DAW.

Again, genius. I'll buy one as soon as I have my console up and running.

Thanks and best of luck getting this product to market!

Greetings,
Dirk
Old 13th October 2012 | Show parent
  #22
Lives for gear
 
LeMauce's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by DirkB ➑️
Unbelievable that I overlooked the genius simplicity of this system.

Best thing is: I just bought a 32ch D&R Orion in excellent shape for my new studio and this system solves the last hurdle: post insert analog automation, assignable to any insert and controlled by my DAW.

Again, genius. I'll buy one as soon as I have my console up and running.

Thanks and best of luck getting this product to market!

Greetings,
Dirk
Dirk I have one here in Paris. Only waiting still on my special made dsub connectors... (Hope that they will be come in today!).
Perhaps in november or december I'm in Rotterdam visiting some friends and studios with the sum:mation to demostrate the thing. Hit me a PM if you are interested. PS: I do speak dutch
Old 14th October 2012
  #23
Lives for gear
 
DirkB's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Hi LeMauce, thanks for the offer, might contact you later when the console is up and running.

Man, I am getting more and more excited. The fact that you can just use it as an insert opens up lots of possibilities. I am used to having 2-3 main reverbs and send a little bit of a lot of channels to those. However, a couple of channels, especially lead vocal, I automate the reverb send a lot. Now this will be really easy: just insert the vocal on the monitor channel (have an inline desk) and insert one of the VCA's into that channel. Then just add a Presonus faderport and happy automating.

Sorry if I'm getting excited, but for anybody pondering to go into LFAC mixing, this really makes a huge difference.

Greetings,
Dirk
Old 14th October 2012
  #24
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Does the software leave the motorised faders operational on whatever controller is used?
Old 14th October 2012
  #25
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
If you can assign your fader controller (MCU, Alphatrack, etc.) to a plugin parameter in your DAW, you can assign it to the sum.mation plugin and control it as well. The sum.mation plugin has a "midi learn" feature, so you can use anything you want to control it - even the mod' wheel on your keyboard.
Old 18th October 2012
  #26
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Just a quick note to say that the waiting list has been fulfilled, and sum.mation is now available through the web store at the Greiner Engineering Tools website

Currently only the Mac RTAS plugin for Pro Tools is available, but all other plugin formats are soon to follow!
Old 18th October 2012
  #27
Lives for gear
 
LeMauce's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Great news Scott.

BTW, I send you a email about the driver. But found it on the website. Didn't know that it was updated already... my bad

Tomorrow soldering my patchbay normalized with the new cables for the Sum:Mation. Just last question, the L/R outputs are XLR balanced with active output. The jack output are passive outputs and unbalanced?

PS: sorry folks for the long wait, but working here in Paris is madness otm. Everybody wants it now and always making last changes when you ready to bounce the project.... So I can't break open my studio yet...
Old 18th October 2012 | Show parent
  #28
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeMauce ➑️
Just last question, the L/R outputs are XLR balanced with active output. The jack output are passive outputs and unbalanced?
Yes, the 1/4" TRS jacks are for the unbalanced passive output and the unbalanced passive summing node input (for cascading multiple units). Don't forget to change the internal jumpers if you want to try passive mode with your own mic amps (see manual for details).
Old 25th October 2012 | Show parent
  #29
Gear Addict
 
Magnus Lindberg's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeMauce ➑️
Great news Scott.

BTW, I send you a email about the driver. But found it on the website. Didn't know that it was updated already... my bad

Tomorrow soldering my patchbay normalized with the new cables for the Sum:Mation. Just last question, the L/R outputs are XLR balanced with active output. The jack output are passive outputs and unbalanced?

PS: sorry folks for the long wait, but working here in Paris is madness otm. Everybody wants it now and always making last changes when you ready to bounce the project.... So I can't break open my studio yet...
Anything yet, did you try it out?
Old 8th November 2012 | Show parent
  #30
Lives for gear
 
LeMauce's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnus Lindberg ➑️
Anything yet, did you try it out?
Yup! After some hard deadlines and a quick visit to Moscow (become uncle and needed to visit to see the little girl of my brother).
I had some running up problems but with a quick Skype Call with Mr.Greiner himself 15mins later everything was running.
So my first exp. so far:
1. The "stereo" image is indeed much better then ITB summing (protools) with stems (When I'm back in Paris, recording for a week in south of france, I'll post a ITB/OTB shoot out).
2. Over all sound its just very clean. BUT it sounds just more polisched in very goodway
3. Finally goodbye to phase issues when parr.compression when using my outboard gear and Protools 9/10 with SSL Alphalink. Even with the offset setup right in I/O window, when changing your samplerate or buffer...everything is f*cked up again... ... And now... it doens't!

Really, I'm a very happy men otm with this product. Only have some small workflow issue's with the plugin and the Digidesign c24 controller. But Mr.Greiner is already on it and we shared some idea's for optimazing the plugin for controllers.
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