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Greiner Eng. Sum.mation
Old 25th August 2013 | Show parent
  #91
Gear Nut
 
sphereman's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Any chance the VCAs on my non automated Calrec could work as faders to control the Summation??
Old 26th August 2013 | Show parent
  #92
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by sphereman ➑️
Any chance the VCAs on my non automated Calrec could work as faders to control the Summation??
Sum.mation doesn't control the DAW, it's the other way around - the DAW controls sum.mation.

Since sum.mation uses your DAW's automation, you would have to invent some way of interfacing your console's faders with the DAW. In Pro Tools, that would have be one of their protocols, like HUI or EuCon.

We're still working on auto.mate, which will be able to control your console's existing vca's. Do you have all of the schematics for your Calrec? Shoot me an email and we can discuss...
Old 17th February 2014
  #93
Gear Addict
 
Sen's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
This piece should have, well and truly, been in use in numerous studios for a while by now. Any new reviews, comments, issues, experiences??
I run a very old DAW (it's working for me, so don't really want to upgrade) and am considering this unit. I run Cubase4 on Win XP Sp2. Anyone running the sum.mation plugs in a similar system? Any comments.
Thanks very much!
Old 17th February 2014 | Show parent
  #94
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sen ➑️
This piece should have, well and truly, been in use in numerous studios for a while by now. Any new reviews, comments, issues, experiences??
I run a very old DAW (it's working for me, so don't really want to upgrade) and am considering this unit. I run Cubase4 on Win XP Sp2. Anyone running the sum.mation plugs in a similar system? Any comments.
Thanks very much!
Hi,

Most of our customers are not on Gearslutz, though there are a few (Eric Valentine being the most recent, but he doesn't post very often). Sum.mation's fader plugin comes as RTAS, AAX, VST, and AU, both 32 and 64 bit (RTAS is 32 bit only, obviously). We have tested the VST plugin as far back as Windows XP 32 bit, but with Cubase 7. The easiest way to tell if it's compatible with your version is to download the plugin from the website, and try it - it's free. You obviously won't have any hardware attached, but at least you'll know if the plugin shows up and functions inside your DAW. There's also HUI mode, which controls the hardware from the first 16 faders of your DAW - no plugin necessary.

Cheers!
Old 17th February 2014 | Show parent
  #95
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
still waiting for auto.mate specification
as say previously (time ago...) i run 24 patchable VCA trough my desk with a custom system driving CV out of my computer, work well, but as a prototype it have some non-friendly things (ex not following the log curve of DAW audio fader)

to follow your request (website) for development here is my "need"

minimum 24 CV out (digital controlled via your auto.mate plugin)
10dB/V or 20dB/V or better something user adjustable via trim, with 0 adjust (if offset needed) +V max and -V max
so a range around +5/-10 V ?

i'm also thinking of a separate board with all fader/functions in the same window. With extra group fader etc. Maybe a separate application with sync function? or a plug loaded in a single audio track (like the actual plug) but with all control for the whole auto.mate

could also be nice to develope a plug-in able to control other CV shape at the output in place of linear fader, like LFO, gate, step sequencer etc...
This already exist with other manufacturer, but could be a big + and extend the product to all analog syth freak.
Old 17th February 2014 | Show parent
  #96
Gear Guru
 
NathanEldred's Avatar
 
7 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
I think the product looks amazing. But on Gearslutz you'd probably see a lot more responses if summing boxes had inserts on each channel and bus, which almost all don't. Maybe the new Trident 88 will open a larger path for this since it has dual inserts per channel and a low price point for what it looks to provide.
Old 17th February 2014 | Show parent
  #97
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by NathanEldred ➑️
you'd probably see a lot more responses if summing boxes had inserts on each channel and bus, which almost all don't.
Hi Nathan,

I've always been puzzled by people's desire for insert points on a summing mixer input. Why not just patch into the outboard gear before the summing mixer? That is exactly the point of entry of an insert point on a console, right? If there was more to a summing mixer (eq's, aux sends, etc) then I could understand the need. Am I missing something?
Old 17th February 2014 | Show parent
  #98
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by zamproject ➑️
here is my "need"

minimum 24 CV out (digital controlled via your auto.mate plugin)
10dB/V or 20dB/V or better something user adjustable via trim, with 0 adjust (if offset needed) +V max and -V max
so a rage around +5/-10 V ?
This is exactly the complication that's keeping the auto.mate product from progressing - each and every automation package is different. Different control voltages, different polarity, different control direction, different log/linear curve. And then there's the differences in each DAW's implementation of the various controller protocols...

Until we can find some commonality between all of the systems, it's unfortunately going to stay in the prototype stage (which is actually working quite well). The more documentation we receive from the various systems, the closer we get, but it's still a bit of a maze.
Old 17th February 2014 | Show parent
  #99
Gear Guru
 
NathanEldred's Avatar
 
7 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
I think I'm having a forgetful moment about the integration of summation. I was under the impression it required inserts on the console (or summing device). Please run me through a quick setup on here so I don't confuse other readers. Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by juniorhifikit ➑️
Hi Nathan,

I've always been puzzled by people's desire for insert points on a summing mixer input. Why not just patch into the outboard gear before the summing mixer? That is exactly the point of entry of an insert point on a console, right? If there was more to a summing mixer (eq's, aux sends, etc) then I could understand the need. Am I missing something?
Old 17th February 2014 | Show parent
  #100
Gear Addict
 
Sen's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by juniorhifikit ➑️
Hi,

Most of our customers are not on Gearslutz, though there are a few (Eric Valentine being the most recent, but he doesn't post very often). Sum.mation's fader plugin comes as RTAS, AAX, VST, and AU, both 32 and 64 bit (RTAS is 32 bit only, obviously). We have tested the VST plugin as far back as Windows XP 32 bit, but with Cubase 7. The easiest way to tell if it's compatible with your version is to download the plugin from the website, and try it - it's free. You obviously won't have any hardware attached, but at least you'll know if the plugin shows up and functions inside your DAW. There's also HUI mode, which controls the hardware from the first 16 faders of your DAW - no plugin necessary.

Cheers!
That's a great idea. Didn't even think of that. Thank you
Downloading now and will load it into the DAW later on to try.
Cheers
Old 18th February 2014 | Show parent
  #101
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by NathanEldred ➑️
I think I'm having a forgetful moment about the integration of summation. I was under the impression it required inserts on the console (or summing device). Please run me through a quick setup on here so I don't confuse other readers. Thanks.
No worries! Here's how sum.mation (and pretty much any other summing device) is set up for stereo mixing with analog outboard gear:



Here's how it would interface with a console as automation at the insert point, using sum.mation's direct outputs:



Here's a brief video overview with a bit more info, and an overview of the workflow. More videos to come

Old 18th February 2014
  #102
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
So Summation is now compatable, as a VST, with Windows 7 running Cubase? Will it work with Samplitude 11Pro?
Old 18th February 2014 | Show parent
  #103
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiritworks ➑️
So Summation is now compatable, as a VST, with Windows 7 running Cubase? Will it work with Samplitude 11Pro?
We mostly test on Pro Tools, Logic and Cubase (the plugin format creators), but if Samplitutde uses VST, I can't see any reason why it wouldn't work. Download the plugin and give it a try (it's free). There's also HUI mode, which works with any DAW that recognizes a HUI
Old 24th February 2014 | Show parent
  #104
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Hello,

I'm looking for a summing box to use with my Burl Mothership

How it sound ? It could be great to have A/B ITB vs Sum.mation vs Dangerous 2 Bus vs Burl B32 vs "other converters"..

I'm more concerns about the ability of the unit to keep all the characteristic of my high end units (shadow hills MC, ubk fatso, thermionic rooster...) than the automations.

Thank you,
Best,
Old 24th February 2014 | Show parent
  #105
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olzik ➑️
Hello,

I'm looking for a summing box to use with my Burl Mothership

How it sound ? It could be great to have A/B ITB vs Sum.mation vs Dangerous 2 Bus vs Burl B32 vs "other converters"..

I'm more concerns about the ability of the unit to keep all the characteristic of my high end units (shadow hills MC, ubk fatso, thermionic rooster...) than the automations.

Thank you,
Best,
How does sum.mation sound? It sounds like your gear. It was designed to let your precious gear shine through, and not impart any sound of it's own. Even pieces with huge output levels as high as +30 dBu (like a Gates limiter) are easily accommodated.

A/B tests using sum.mation as automation on various consoles have been made. We're just waiting for label clearance in order to post the results with the artists' music.
Old 25th February 2014 | Show parent
  #106
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Thanks!
Old 25th February 2014
  #107
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
Hi,

Is there a way to try it in France please ?

Thanks,
Old 26th February 2014 | Show parent
  #108
Gear Addict
 
Sen's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by HolB ➑️
Hi,

Is there a way to try it in France please ?

Thanks,
...or Australia heh
(I know it's a long shot, but doesn't hurt to ask)
Old 27th February 2014 | Show parent
  #109
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sen ➑️
...or Australia heh
(I know it's a long shot, but doesn't hurt to ask)
Check with MusicLab in Australia to see if they have a demo unit

Quote:
Originally Posted by HolB
Hi,

Is there a way to try it in France please ?

Thanks,
In France you can contact Magic Mastering or Floating Point Audio
Old 27th February 2014 | Show parent
  #110
Gear Addict
 
Sen's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by juniorhifikit ➑️
Check with MusicLab in Australia to see if they have a demo unit
Thanks Scott. Didn't realise anyone was selling your units down here. Email-ed Musiclab, hopefully I get an answer tomorrow.
Cheers
Old 18th March 2014
  #111
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Would anyone who has purchased and is using Summation care to update us on their impressions? I am not interested in a comparison to sigma from ssl, and am more concerned with the automation, rather than summing, aspects. Thanks.
Old 18th March 2014
  #112
Gear Addict
 
AwTAC's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
I just spent a week sharing space in a booth with Scott at Musik Messe, wanted to quickly comment on what a nice and straight forward guy he is. In person the product looks great and in conversations over the course of a few days, it is clear that the ideas are coming from the right place. There are good people working hard in this business, Greiner Engineering Tools | Professional tools for recording engineers is certainly one of that bunch.
Old 18th March 2014 | Show parent
  #113
Lives for gear
 
LeMauce's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by HolB ➑️
Hi,

Is there a way to try it in France please ?

Thanks,
I have of the early one's already from end 2012 with great result in my home studio.

Had some problems in the beginning but after updating the plugin (Was my own fault, was like 6versions behind) it works again like never before with protools 10. It works very smooth with my C24 controller without any problems. Everything stay's in "phase".... something what not always happens when using I/O inserts on protools...
It's sounds clean and has a huge headroom. And can't mix without anymore when going OTB.
Old 24th April 2014 | Show parent
  #114
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Is there the same latency as with the Eucon stuff? The artist controllers are fine for leveling, but rides are mostly unusable with the delay between the control surface and the DAW.
Old 2nd May 2014 | Show parent
  #115
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myles83 ➑️
Is there the same latency as with the Eucon stuff? The artist controllers are fine for leveling, but rides are mostly unusable with the delay between the control surface and the DAW.
Hi,

Latency has a lot of factors that affect it, including buffer size, the power of the computer, and what else is going on with the bus. Each DAW handles automation differently, so it's impossible to comment specifically. I've never found the latency of EuCon-enabled controllers to be a problem, personally. It definitely has a different "feel" than a traditional moving fader automation system, but it's never proven to be problematic.

FWIW, on my rig, sum.mation automation playback is spot-on. Mutes that are on the beat, play back in time, etc.
Old 4th May 2014 | Show parent
  #116
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Latency has a lot of factors that affect it, including buffer size, the power of the computer, and what else is going on with the bus. Each DAW handles automation differently, so it's impossible to comment specifically. I've never found the latency of EuCon-enabled controllers to be a problem, personally. It definitely has a different "feel" than a traditional moving fader automation system, but it's never proven to be problematic.

FWIW, on my rig, sum.mation automation playback is spot-on. Mutes that are on the beat, play back in time, etc.
Thank you, this is helpful to know.
Old 17th November 2014
  #117
Lives for gear
 
matskull's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Even though now is not the time I'm always looking for future studio upgrade. Right now I use a Shadow Hills Equinox hooked up to an Apogee Symphony 16x16 i/o system. I don't use a patchbay, I got tired of them always being scratchy and degrading audio so I got rid of them. I use a dangerous liaison, less versatile but it's ok.
Now I only have 1 stereo hardware insert available because of my limited i/o in protools.
I'm thinking either getting another 16 i/o module for my symphony and using protools HW inserts or getting a system like the sum.mation and using my HW in between my DA and my Equinox.

With a system like the sum.mation, how do you guys deal with effect sends in protools? Do you somehow split the signal after the sum.mation and bring it back itb to send to the reverb or do you simply send it pre-processing and don't worry about it?

Right now I see both options have their strength and flaws, they are about the same price too. Maybe the sum.mation's VCA enhance or degrade audio, I don't know.
Old 17th November 2014
  #118
Lives for gear
 
matskull's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years

Last edited by matskull; 17th November 2014 at 04:49 PM.. Reason: double post
Old 23rd September 2015 | Show parent
  #119
Lives for gear
 
steveschizoid's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by matskull ➑️

With a system like the sum.mation, how do you guys deal with effect sends in protools? Do you somehow split the signal after the sum.mation and bring it back itb to send to the reverb or do you simply send it pre-processing and don't worry about it?

Right now I see both options have their strength and flaws, they are about the same price too. Maybe the sum.mation's VCA enhance or degrade audio, I don't know.
point 1 - I was assuming making a quick bounce of the compressed and/or eq'd audio through a hardware insert, which would theoretically line up (assuming the DAW's delay compensation for hardware inserts is perfect (although part of the point of this is to avoid such scenarios, right?), sending that to the effects, then mixing the effects to stereo output.....

point 2 - I was wondering about the VCAs as well
Old 4th February 2018 | Show parent
  #120
Lives for gear
 
Zep Dude's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Checking in.

Just noticed Greiner Engineering Tools Sum.mation is not listed in the Pro Tools plugin compatibility list.

Is this company still around? Is the AAX plugin working with current Pro Tools (12, 2018)?

Worried I have a boat anchor here if the plugin is not updated.
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