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Harsh and sibilant ear splitting sounds that get revealed at high volumes.
Old 5th October 2012 | Show parent
  #91
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by latestflavor ➡️
ya think? he can't even tell you which freq range is of concern. and highly unlikely Fletcher–Munson. bass and treble baby, bass and treble.

if he wants to know the weakest link in sound and mixing, he may want to read Loudspeakers: For music recording and reproduction: Philip Newell,Keith Holland: 9780240520148: Amazon.com: Books because he's started a number of threads now, and its a very misunderstood subject (esp around here).
frequency range is mainly 1K-10K

This is a very misunderstood subject indeed as only a relatively few people have observed this phenomenon .. and most tend to neglect the gravity of it... or didn't even take the time do try to get deep into this issue.

I'll have a look at the book , thanks
Old 5th October 2012 | Show parent
  #92
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Yes, you should check out the BM5a'a. I have them and the o300's. The dyns will always tell me what's harsh!
Old 7th October 2012
  #93
Gear Head
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Hey Alecsribet I noticed this behavior as well, tracks engineered by "supposedly" great mixers and M.engineers sound extremely aggressive and harsh on common systems at loud volumes and it gets even worse on very loud club systems.

It seems that some of the top engineers from Europe have nailed the problem as the tracks sound very clear, tend to resist distortion better and don't sound harsh or piercing.

The possibility that many American engineers don't hear the harshness factor of mixes is a plausible suggestion, and their monitor systems might be the great culprit. YOU CANNOT FIX WHAT YOU CANNOT HEAR. YOU CANNOT FIX SOMETHING THAT YOU ARE NOT EVEN AWARE OF.

It is quite a new problem and some engineers are not even aware of its existence, or maybe they are too proud to admit that their mixes suck at high levels.

I have built a little speaker system that reveals those issues readily and at low volumes, to compensate the lack of REVEALING POWER of my monitoring system(Focal CMS 40 to check for small speaker translation ,Focal SM11 and ADAM S3X-V). The Adams, do a better job of high-lighting the nasty ugly piercing elements of a mix but still it was not enough. On the other hand we use the Focal SM11 most of the time to impress our clients as honestly those speakers go very loud and have a forgiving sweet nature, maybe due to the Beryllium tweeter.

I have heard good things about the Dynaudio speakers as well in the way they expose harshness, but I personally haven't tried.


Good luck on your noble search !
Old 10th October 2012 | Show parent
  #94
Quote:
Originally Posted by alecsribet ➡️
True my friend but the problem is , when listening to the whole track to find out the offending and hurting frequencies ... after some time it can ruin your hearing ability don't you think ?

I would love to have some guy inventing some speaker that could show those aggressive stuff , even when monitoring at low volumes.

God please hear me, for the sake of helping my fellow engineer friends and me lol
If you need to listen that long to figure it out, then you don't really know what you're listening for, and for me loud is NOT atomic bomb volume. I'm not a proponent of listening loud for extended periods of time but I will for short periods just to check.
Old 10th October 2012
  #95
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by alecsribet ➡️
I know :( Actually i'm really disappointed with my K&H and Focal Twins :( They don't show me those problems at all , but at my friend's place, he has ATC 150 and it clearly slaps you in the face easily and quickly when there is some harshness..... BUT THEY ARE HUGE HEAVY AND EXPENSIVE :(


I already spent some money in my monitors , and would really would like to have something to complement my system , to add the missing part.

It's sad though, the big companies brag about their amazing speakers , but those speakers cannot even show or warn about something important like harshness and ear piercing sibilances.



Many people have been fooled, or they aren't even aware of those problems so they don't care, or they are not perfectionists , so they don't care if it sounds ear piercing in the club or when played loud.

They will simply blame it on the PA system and the home audio system and say something as lame as : "YEAH A MIX CANNOT SOUND GOOD EVERYWHERE"

.... yeah right but actually there are some amazing mixes that beat the ****ty mixes on every system that i've tried.




Just pick a bunch of CDS and singles out there in any genre, and just see how many sound extraordinary(in a sonic point of view) ... you will be shocked by how small(and sometimes un-existant) the number is.

Loudness wars is a factor that is bad for music ... but amateurish minded non-perfectionist audio engineers, and monitors that don't speak the truth are a even worse cancer.
Im selling an auratone c5 very soon. You UK based?
Old 10th October 2012
  #96
Gear Addict
 
Continental's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
each single & complete mix must be checked for bad resonances
I think a lot of people do not pay attention on it there and no experience with that......& hello ? mixing, mastering is a professional job....
Old 10th October 2012 | Show parent
  #97
Lives for gear
 
latestflavor's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by alecsribet ➡️
frequency range is mainly 1K-10K
Is that all? No Problem, easy fix.
Old 11th October 2012 | Show parent
  #98
Gear Head
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continental ➡️
each single & complete mix must be checked for bad resonances
I think a lot of people do not pay attention on it there and no experience with that......& hello ? mixing, mastering is a professional job....
Might be because they never got the courage to hear their tracks on loud sound systems and therefore don't realize what's wrong in their mixes. Some mixers/ME it seems can't even hear resonances, that's why you find them on tons of tracks
Old 11th October 2012 | Show parent
  #99
Lives for gear
 
WunderBro Flo's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
The use of the word "resonance" is becoming more and more esoteric these days. Is "resonance" to 2010-2020 what "warm" was to 1990-2010?

Why is a harsh transient being labelled a "resonance"?
Old 11th October 2012 | Show parent
  #100
Gear Head
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by WunderBro Flo ➡️
The use of the word "resonance" is becoming more and more esoteric these days. Is "resonance" to 2010-2020 what "warm" was to 1990-2010?

Why is a harsh transient being labelled a "resonance"?
Warm and resonant ? are they really similar ? I have heard great mixes of yesteryear having great musical, warmth and sonic qualities, without ever bearing resonances in the mids and high frequencies



Resonances are the hidden devils inside the mix which tend to be masking other elements, sucking up precious energy and sound very fatiguing, while still being disguised(many people are not even aware that they are here)

Harsh is very fatiguing and a very close friend to peaky resonant frequencies

Harsh is no more harsh when the offending peaky frequencies are tamed but yeah you have hear those first(monitor and room acoustics and placement and trained ears) and strangely some big name superstar mixers seem to be unaware of those issues

Which makes me wonder and some words come into my head , like OVERRATED ?


And needless to say, the blind followers will tell you that even if the mixes are harsh, THEY ARE HOW THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO BE just because some big name guy did it, which all in all , starts to be really funny
Old 11th October 2012 | Show parent
  #101
Lives for gear
 
WunderBro Flo's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
well the problem I have is that just because something is loud, it does not necessarily come from a resonance. resonating is something different from being loud, but I see the tendency that everyone calls anything that gets too loud "resonating", which is BS imho.


...and about those "overrated" mixers...I often see nobodies calling out how big name mixer X and Y totally suck at this or that. Kind of funny. The way I see it, these famous mixing guys know how to MASTER the RELEVANT aspects of their job, whereas the little guys who aren´t even half as good point at little things which they think (!) are flaws to prove the big names suck...
Old 11th October 2012 | Show parent
  #102
Gear Head
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by WunderBro Flo ➡️
well the problem I have is that just because something is loud, it does not necessarily come from a resonance. resonating is something different from being loud, but I see the tendency that everyone calls anything that gets too loud "resonating", which is BS imho.

VERY big bull**** indeed!
Old 11th October 2012 | Show parent
  #103
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by aarvin2 ➡️
VERY big bull**** indeed!
. . Charming . .
Old 11th October 2012
  #104
Lives for gear
 
latestflavor's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
mods - please move this thread to the Low End.
Old 11th October 2012 | Show parent
  #105
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Continental ➡️
each single & complete mix must be checked for bad resonances
I think a lot of people do not pay attention on it there and no experience with that......& hello ? mixing, mastering is a professional job....
True thing, people who are not serious about this art should not be doing it. So many mixes out there with disturbing resonances to say the least.
Old 11th October 2012
  #106
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
Save your money and get some Duntech speakers + the adequate room treatment and all your worries will be gone heh
Old 12th October 2012 | Show parent
  #107
Gear Maniac
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred.Kevorkian ➡️
Save your money and get some Duntech speakers + the adequate room treatment and all your worries will be gone heh
Save even more money and get the even better quality Landmark speakers which are manufactured in the same city as Duntech.

Incidentally, Duntech is no longer associated with Mr. Dunlavy.
Old 12th October 2012 | Show parent
  #108
Lives for gear
 
Tone Laborer's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Musiclab ➡️
If you need to listen that long to figure it out, then you don't really know what you're listening for, and for me loud is NOT atomic bomb volume. I'm not a proponent of listening loud for extended periods of time but I will for short periods just to check.
+1. And where is this concern for her hearing when she is hanging out in "the club" listening at these ear splitting levels?
Old 12th October 2012 | Show parent
  #109
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev. Eslam ➡️
Save even more money and get the even better quality Landmark speakers which are manufactured in the same city as Duntech.

Incidentally, Duntech is no longer associated with Mr. Dunlavy.
Never heard of Landmarks , but I don't see any official web site neither
Old 13th October 2012
  #110
Gear Maniac
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
That's because they do not have a website so search Gearslutz for details.
Old 19th August 2015 | Show parent
  #111
Gear Head
 
winged's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by alecsribet ➡️
A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T HEAR THEM INDEED AS YOU SAID!!!! Many big name engineers tailor tracks that sound horrible and very aggressive on loud volumes.

I am sure it's cause they simply cannot hear those harsh sounds. Mind you if it went for mastering and still got those mistakes, the mastering engineers as well can't hear those issues then ...

I hear tons of supposedly high quality engineering people on here that don't even care about this, which is very strange.

If big name mixing/mastering engineers allow for harsh recordings does it mean that every body should blindly follow like dumb sheep ??

Thank for your advice and observation man I will check the Dynaudio

You are dead on alecsribet !!! Now in 2015 and i was praying that this subject would exsist on G.S. Then ... I FOUND YOU !!! Made my damn day. Read all the pages up till now and gotta say there are some disrepectfull slutz on here. Okay anyways i have the same problem. And i also wonder how to get harsh freq revealed on a healthy volume!! I hope you can find a cheaper salutions for the monitors. And if you go the ATC route , then i sure will. I don't even need to hear them!! i just want to make indeed pleasent mixes that can also be enjoyed at high volumes. . My ADAMS A77X are also smoothing out the harshness and piercingness i want revealed and i personaly do not believe in boosting my speakers in the mids by 3 db. It just doesnt feel right. It should just reveal in its natural setting. BRILLIANT THREAD I EVER READ!!! Hope you can look back on this

Last edited by winged; 19th August 2015 at 08:26 PM..
Old 20th August 2015
  #112
Lives for gear
 
voodoo4u's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I know this is an old thread and I've just scanned through the posts, but I can't believe that only two people, one being Silvertone, have given a true, accurate explanation for the source of the problem. The equal loudness contour: AKA the Fletcher-Munson curve. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fletch...3Munson_curves
Some people here understand this and we generally pay attention to the curves between 10 and 83db (where the human ear perceives close to even levels through the frequency spectrum), but watch what happens above 83db. The ear becomes even more sensitive to higher and lower frequencies. If you want the truth, forget whatever your "flavor of the month" monitors are and pay attention to the science of the perception of sound.
Old 20th August 2015 | Show parent
  #113
Gear Head
 
winged's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Tried personal messaging you but i geuss you turned that off. Any e mail address i can ask my questions to you. Iam dying to know what you figuured out!!!!!!!
Old 21st August 2015
  #114
Gear Head
 
winged's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Well ALECSRIBET... iam geussing you went the atc route and never looked backed here on gearsluts. I wish you the best of youre AWSOME brillant mixing setup. Iam going to save for the atc also . The smc 25 pro should do the trick for revealing the percieng harsh freqeuncies like a studio monitor SHOULD do. Thanks a bunch for your BEST THREAD EVER!!!!! My email is [email protected] if you want to hear my way of mixing. Hopefully i will have the ATC's when you do mail. I'am curious about your work as well. CHEERRRRS!!
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