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Rage against The machine Sound
Old 6th May 2006
  #1
Here for the gear
 
🎧 15 years
Rage against The machine Sound

Hi,

Yesterday I went to my RATM albums:

"The Battle of Los Angeles"
"Rage Against the machine"
especially interested me track "Know You're Enemy"
If You'll have a time listen this tracks
and here is my question:
Sound of this albums is typically for Neve or SSL consoles ??
Sound of this track and these albums is possible to make it in digital hardwere ??

Thanx, best wishes !!!
Old 6th May 2006
  #2
Lives for gear
 
not_so_new's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wafellos
Hi,

Yesterday I went to my RATM albums:

"The Battle of Los Angeles"
"Rage Against the machine"
especially interested me track "Know You're Enemy"
If You'll have a time listen this tracks
and here is my question:
Sound of this albums is typically for Neve or SSL consoles ??
Sound of this track and these albums is possible to make it in digital hardwere ??

Thanx, best wishes !!!

You know someone is going to say it but... the sound of this album is way way deeper than the gear they used to record it.. Sorry.
Old 6th May 2006 | Show parent
  #3
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Musicians tend to have a lot to do with sound. A Neve board isn't going to make a piece of ****e band sound good.
Old 7th May 2006 | Show parent
  #4
Harmless Wacko
 
🎧 15 years
RATM's first record was mixed on an SSL 4048E to an ATR-102 1/2" pulling 499.

If memory serves me, it was largely tracked on a Neve 80 series.

"Recorderman" could tell you the tracking details if he sees this, he was in on the basics.

Regards,

SM.
Old 7th May 2006 | Show parent
  #5
Lives for gear
 
superburtm's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I thought I remembered hearing that they tracked to ADAT on one of the records..maybe I'm losing my mind
Old 7th May 2006 | Show parent
  #6
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
their demo sounds like *hit !!!

I used to have a demo cassette that is rare and was one of many thousands the band passed out in L.A. and gave away for free when they were first getting the word out. The cassette did have lyrics and must have been put out by a duplication house because it was clear and also has song titles, so I guess they went through the trouble of mastering it too.

Guess what ? It sounded like complete dog doodoo !!! It was actually one of the worst demos I had ever heard, though you could tell the band had alot of angst and attitude, nOTHING was clear. Vocals were brittle and distorted, bass was totally muddy, and drums sounded like somebody beating on tin cans to me.

So don't just assume that the better gear, a better room, better instruments, and most importantly a PRODUCER/ENGINEER who KNOWS how to record such a band are last on the list of importance.

The other side of this coin is that MANY bands that have great inspiration and great musical delivery, but who fail to get a record deal and the assistance of a knowledgeable producer -- well, let's just say many a great band have fallen into the garbage heap of "demo-land" over the years, and though their ideas were great their homemade demos and lack of knowledge of "what gear" and "how to use it" ultimately landed them there.

Believe me, I've heard many over the years. But it was utterly suprising to hear that demo of RATM.

Take away that Neve they tracked on, all the top notch guitar and amp gear they had, the great rooms they recorded in, the SSL, all the outboard in mixing, and most importantly the record company hired producer -- and guess what ? They'd be in that garbage heap today, along with all the other unknown bands.

Yes, the very best gear in the world will not make a second rate, uninspired poser band sound good. Actually, that's most of what we hear commercially today.

But PLEASE, don't discredit the gear and the ridiculous difference it makes when a band IS really good!

My 2 cents
Old 7th May 2006 | Show parent
  #7
Lives for gear
 
not_so_new's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by sage691
I used to have a demo cassette that is rare and was one of many thousands the band passed out in L.A. and gave away for free when they were first getting the word out. The cassette did have lyrics and must have been put out by a duplication house because it was clear and also has song titles, so I guess they went through the trouble of mastering it too.

Guess what ? It sounded like complete dog doodoo !!! It was actually one of the worst demos I had ever heard, though you could tell the band had alot of angst and attitude, nOTHING was clear. Vocals were brittle and distorted, bass was totally muddy, and drums sounded like somebody beating on tin cans to me.

So don't just assume that the better gear, a better room, better instruments, and most importantly a PRODUCER/ENGINEER who KNOWS how to record such a band are last on the list of importance.

The other side of this coin is that MANY bands that have great inspiration and great musical delivery, but who fail to get a record deal and the assistance of a knowledgeable producer -- well, let's just say many a great band have fallen into the garbage heap of "demo-land" over the years, and though their ideas were great their homemade demos and lack of knowledge of "what gear" and "how to use it" ultimately landed them there.

Believe me, I've heard many over the years. But it was utterly suprising to hear that demo of RATM.

Take away that Neve they tracked on, all the top notch guitar and amp gear they had, the great rooms they recorded in, the SSL, all the outboard in mixing, and most importantly the record company hired producer -- and guess what ? They'd be in that garbage heap today, along with all the other unknown bands.

Yes, the very best gear in the world will not make a second rate, uninspired poser band sound good. Actually, that's most of what we hear commercially today.

But PLEASE, don't discredit the gear and the ridiculous difference it makes when a band IS really good!

My 2 cents
Well if this post was pointing towards my post above then I completely agree. My point above was that it was a combination of the gear used and the people behind the gear that knew how to use it.

Recordings like the first Rage CD are really something more than the individual parts and pieces. The engineers and mastering guys were great, the gear was great, the band was great and the songs were great... and all of this combined to make something more than great people with great gear and great material... something that you can't quite put your finger on that makes the whole greater than the sum of the parts, magic happened.

The original thread started by asking "Sound of this track and these albums is possible to make it in digital hardware ??" and my answer still is "the sound of this album is way way deeper than the gear they used to record it."
Old 8th May 2006 | Show parent
  #8
Gear Nut
 
🎧 15 years
Mr. Brendan O'brien......
Old 9th May 2006 | Show parent
  #9
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Mr Nick DiDia...
Old 9th May 2006 | Show parent
  #10
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Mr. Tom Morello
Mr. Brad Wilk
Mr. Zach de la Rocha
Mr. Timmy C
Old 9th May 2006 | Show parent
  #11
Kush Audio
 
u b k's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
not to mention:

Mr. Neve
Mr. SSL
Mr. Studer
Mr. ATR
Mr. 1176
Mr. Neumann
Mr. Acoustically Badass Rooms


but really, good luck with the digital hardware approach!

seriously, all ballbusting aside, the answer to your question is: no.


gregoire
del ubik
Old 10th May 2006 | Show parent
  #12
Here for the gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by u b i k
not to mention:

Mr. Neve
Mr. SSL
Mr. Studer
Mr. ATR
Mr. 1176
Mr. Neumann
Mr. Acoustically Badass Rooms


but really, good luck with the digital hardware approach!

seriously, all ballbusting aside, the answer to your question is: no.


gregoire
del ubik

But Models If You know ??

Neve...
SSL G+ series ??
Ohh... and By The Way, tell me please about differences between SSL G+ and SSL J9000 ? I know that J9000 has got E/G Equalization
Old 10th May 2006 | Show parent
  #13
Gear Addict
 
HiRaX's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
*cough* andy wallace *cough*

ps...Wafellos The G+ s the series computer used with the console if im not mistaken .(E G J series , etc)

Last edited by HiRaX; 10th May 2006 at 10:43 PM..
Old 11th May 2006 | Show parent
  #14
Gear Guru
 
rickrock305's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiRaX
*cough* andy wallace *cough*



i can't believe it took this long for him to get a mention in this thread.
Old 11th May 2006 | Show parent
  #15
Gear Nut
 
🎧 15 years
The sounds of "The Battle of Los Angeles" and "Rage Against The Machine" are VERY different. The mix styles in BOLA are right around when Brendan started mixing a lot of room drum mics and generally having a different approach to mixing than earlier records. A lot of the STP albums from this time sound the same as well. The guitar sounds are HUGE and generally not as distorted as previous albums. I don't know *technically* what it is that makes less distorted guitar sound more up front and meaner, but man, it's just got that MASSIVE sound. My friend is an engineer at Henson Studios in LA where Brendan just did the new Audioslave and Incubus records and he was telling me stories of Brendan telling him stories about working on past RATM albums. "Evil Empire" was recorded in a rehearsal space with the band PISSED off at each other. He said the hardest part of making that record was getting all the guys to sit in one room with one another, the album was a breeze in comparison. I believe that's the album Andy Wallace mixed. I like the record but I prefer Brendan's mixes on BOLA myself. I didn't like it when it first came out, but I've really been digging it as of late. The SM58 on the hihat is a crazy sound that just works. It's all OVER the Train records. Especially their last one, "My Private Nation".

I know for a fact what Brendan uses now on drums, but I'm not 100% sure what he used on the earlier Rage records although I'm guessing 1073's and 1176's. What year did the SPL Transient Designer come out? That's on EVERY drum track. IN and OUT.
Old 11th May 2006 | Show parent
  #16
Harmless Wacko
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wafellos
But Models If You know ??

Neve...
SSL G+ series ??
Ohh... and By The Way, tell me please about differences between SSL G+ and SSL J9000 ? I know that J9000 has got E/G Equalization
The first RATM record was mixed by Andy Wallace at Quantum Sound in Jersey City NJ on the SSL 4048E, as I mentioned in my earlier post. He mixed many records there from 1988-1995, including Jeff Buckley's "Grace" and Helmet's "Meantime".

"Evil Empire" was one of the earliest records Andy mixed at his (then) 'new' shop at Soundtrack in NYC when Reggie Lucas scaled back, and eventually closed, Quantum. That room had a SSL 4072G desk and a Studer A820 1/2".

As for the differences between the J series and G+.... That question goes far beyond the basic electrical characteristics of those Eq's... and involves a whole series of aggregate system design differences "under the hood", which make those 2 desks decidedly different animals sonically, in spite of their apparent shared SSL pedigree.

Best,

SM.
Old 11th May 2006 | Show parent
  #17
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
You guys are really missing ththe boat with the name dropping.

The Guy outside of the band responsible for the sound of the first record, which imo is THE RATM album is Garth Richardson. period. No disrespect to Andy Wallace...but the board mixes had more aggression and mojo than the final.
Old 11th May 2006 | Show parent
  #18
Lives for gear
 
PhilE's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Greedy
You guys are really missing ththe boat with the name dropping.

The Guy outside of the band responsible for the sound of the first record, which imo is THE RATM album is Garth Richardson. period. No disrespect to Andy Wallace...but the board mixes had more aggression and mojo than the final.

Ththe Gggarth? Yeah! Drums through a PA! GREAT SOUND.
Old 11th May 2006 | Show parent
  #19
Here for the gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilE
Ththe Gggarth? Yeah! Drums through a PA! GREAT SOUND.
OK... now without facts or histories
Many people of You mix and record sound many years,
Tell me what hardware is sound of RATM drums.
For me these drums are greatest !!!
What preamps, compresors mics ???


Thank You !!
Old 11th May 2006 | Show parent
  #20
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilE
Ththe Gggarth? Yeah! Drums through a PA! GREAT SOUND.
no. Not drums through a P.A. that was tried, but the performance wasn't up to snuff. The aldum has traditionally mic'd drums. But then you should "hear" that. Do those sounds on the firts record have any a,bience that could be equated with a PA or lot's of room? answer:no.



Drums (and basics) recorded @ Sound City studio 'A'; i.e. Neve 8028 (1073 modules). Overdubs @ Scream (SSL G series) with outboard pre's. Mixed in Jersey on another SSL.
Old 11th May 2006 | Show parent
  #21
Here for the gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Greedy
no. Not drums through a P.A. that was tried, but the performance wasn't up to snuff. The aldum has traditionally mic'd drums. But then you should "hear" that. Do those sounds on the firts record have any a,bience that could be equated with a PA or lot's of room? answer:no.



Drums (and basics) recorded @ Sound City studio 'A'; i.e. Neve 8028 (1073 modules). Overdubs @ Scream (SSL G series) with outboard pre's. Mixed in Jersey on another SSL.
What is a price of this console (neve 8028) now ??
But, what do You think about rack modules from NEVE ??
Are these simillary to Neve 8028 sound ??
Old 11th May 2006 | Show parent
  #22
Lives for gear
 
mtstudios@charter's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by sage691
I used to have a demo cassette that is rare and was one of many thousands the band passed out in L.A. and gave away for free when they were first getting the word out. The cassette did have lyrics and must have been put out by a duplication house because it was clear and also has song titles, so I guess they went through the trouble of mastering it too.

Guess what ? It sounded like complete dog doodoo !!! It was actually one of the worst demos I had ever heard, though you could tell the band had alot of angst and attitude, nOTHING was clear. Vocals were brittle and distorted, bass was totally muddy, and drums sounded like somebody beating on tin cans to me.

So don't just assume that the better gear, a better room, better instruments, and most importantly a PRODUCER/ENGINEER who KNOWS how to record such a band are last on the list of importance.

The other side of this coin is that MANY bands that have great inspiration and great musical delivery, but who fail to get a record deal and the assistance of a knowledgeable producer -- well, let's just say many a great band have fallen into the garbage heap of "demo-land" over the years, and though their ideas were great their homemade demos and lack of knowledge of "what gear" and "how to use it" ultimately landed them there.

Believe me, I've heard many over the years. But it was utterly suprising to hear that demo of RATM.

Take away that Neve they tracked on, all the top notch guitar and amp gear they had, the great rooms they recorded in, the SSL, all the outboard in mixing, and most importantly the record company hired producer -- and guess what ? They'd be in that garbage heap today, along with all the other unknown bands.

Yes, the very best gear in the world will not make a second rate, uninspired poser band sound good. Actually, that's most of what we hear commercially today.

But PLEASE, don't discredit the gear and the ridiculous difference it makes when a band IS really good!

My 2 cents
Correct
Great Band, Great Songs, Great Gear, Great Engineer/Producer make great records.
Take away ANY of these elements, greatness will fall.

www.bluethumbproductions.com
Old 11th May 2006 | Show parent
  #23
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wafellos
OK... now without facts or histories
Many people of You mix and record sound many years,
Tell me what hardware is sound of RATM drums.
For me these drums are greatest !!!
What preamps, compresors mics ???


Thank You !!
If that's all your concerned about 'yer missing the WHOLE point...

The drum sound is largely the result of the human who's hitting the things.

Knowing what microphones were placed where & run through whatever black boxes happened to be around really won't help you to get a similar tone.

If the drums don't have "it" to begin with, you'll never be able to add "it" or get "it".

Geez, that sounds a little like the Ebay commercial...
Old 12th May 2006 | Show parent
  #24
Lives for gear
 
Dirty Halo's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
A voice of OPPOSITION! Get off your high-horses

Yes, everyone is right in that the gear isn't worth a damn if the musicans and humans behind it aren't but...

Come on guys, get off your self-righteous frickin' high-horses!

Maybe the guy just wants to know what gear was used...I can't help but notice half of you are the same people who are going crazy over that "Recording the Beatles" book or whatever it's called...you want to be lectured on that or are you curious and want that cool inside info?

Give the guy a break and maybe we can all be a bit more humble around here...maybe.

-a

DIRTY HALO www.dirtyhalo.com
Old 12th May 2006 | Show parent
  #25
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
I'm with Dirty Halo on this one. Isn't it a given that the band is great?

There are plenty pf great bands, album and performances and they all sound different. If the sound is only a result of the way the guy hits the drums we're all fools for buying gear and spding hours honing our skils. I don't think anyone really believes that.

Maybe the initial quesiton should ahve been "What did they do to capture the great sound generated by the great band? How or why did they make the choice to record in the location they used?"

Why does the first STP record sound different from the second one even though the band, producer and engineer are the same? (I don't have enough Rage albums to know if they used the same people).

Clearly the gear and recording techniques do make a difference in the sound.
Old 17th December 2010 | Show parent
  #26
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
old thread I know..
Just curios if anyone knows.

"the battle of los angeles"

Was this album tracked digital? adat , Pro Tools?

Doesn`t sound as huge and warm as the records before.
Old 17th December 2010
  #27
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Rage against The machine Sound

RATM demo cassette. I saw Rage early on and received one of those terrible demo cassettes. I remember after the show listening to the cassette at an after party and remarking how terrible it sounded. I think it's also important to remember that besides production values, their sound and format was so new and different then that a lot of people were put off by it (rap metal etc) especially as that was a period where STP, The Cult, grunge was huge. RATM just didn't fit in. Ironically they wound up being one of my favorite bands. And I thought they were borderline at first, same thing I thought about rap at first, and people once thought about metal etc.
Old 18th January 2012
  #28
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Can anyone tell me..

Other than the Rage against the machine sound being much deeper. Can anyone tell me where they recorded the first album, what system & microphones were used & any interesting mixing techniques used by Andy Wallace? If anyone knows of anywhere I can find this info that would be helpful.
T
Old 18th January 2012 | Show parent
  #29
Lives for gear
 
5 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by yotonic ➑️
their sound and format was so new and different then that a lot of people were put off by it
they sounded like Faith no more or the redhots
rap metal was started by anthrax
Old 18th January 2012
  #30
Lives for gear
 
uncle muscles's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Didn't gggarth do the first one?
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