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Neumann Solution D
Old 17th January 2009 | Show parent
  #31
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John Willett's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianHanke ➡️
I'm eagerly waiting for digital microphones to become more mainstream. In my opinion they offer the perfect combination of excellent sound quality and simplicity of use. The KM D series and TLM 103 D are nearly the same price as their analog equivalents - it's just there are very limited solutions for interfacing them at this point. As soon as more AES42-compatible interfaces come to the market I'll be switching over.
AES42 interfaces are currently done by Neumann (2-ch. and 8-ch.), RME (8-channle, linkable and MADI), Marian (PC card) and Sound Devices (on 788T).

At the moment I have the Neumann DMI-2 and Neumann KM-D and Sennheiser MZD 8000 digital mics.
Old 17th January 2009 | Show parent
  #32
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Does the 788T support the full feature set of AES42? I seem to recall reading somewhere that it's Mode 1 only and therefore isn't much of an improvement over using the Neumann connection kits.

The Marian Trace AES42-4 looks great, but I'm waiting for a USB or firewire version. The RME and Neumann offerings are expensive and not exactly what I'm looking for anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Willett ➡️
AES42 interfaces are currently done by Neumann (2-ch. and 8-ch.), RME (8-channle, linkable and MADI), Marian (PC card) and Sound Devices (on 788T).
Old 17th January 2009 | Show parent
  #33
Here for the gear
 
SammyD's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Anyone have a clip of this microphone? The mp3 posted on the first page is no longer there.
Old 17th January 2009 | Show parent
  #34
Lives for gear
 
JoeyM's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I just quick-checked, Solution D is $7999.97 at Sweetwater, with free shipping

The Neumann BCM 104 has the same capsule as Solution D and is $1,079.97.

Of course the capsule isn't the only factor in final output.

How did I end up in High End forum anyway? My next mic will be an SM7(b)

Excuse me...
Old 20th January 2009 | Show parent
  #35
Gear Guru
 
John Willett's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianHanke ➡️
Does the 788T support the full feature set of AES42? I seem to recall reading somewhere that it's Mode 1 only and therefore isn't much of an improvement over using the Neumann connection kits.
The 788T is Mode-1 only.

So to clock the mics (if you have more than one) you have to go through a sample-rate converter.

However - the 788T has a sample-rate converter built-in. So best to set the mics to 88.2 or 96kHz and record on the 788T at 44.1 or 48kHz. All mics will be clocked.

If you use the Neumann connection kits you can only use one mic. or have to use a sample-rate converter.
Old 20th January 2009 | Show parent
  #36
29327
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnRodd ➡️
It really did sound unique.... it was like someone cleaned the windshield. It had a clarity that I had never heard before...
That's kinda how I remember it from a few years back when I used them for a few sessions. It was a very "unveiled", detailed sound. I know such terminology is BS, but they had a bit of a "reach" to them that other mics could compare to...

So, worth the money? Not sure. Worth checking out? Definitely.
Old 20th January 2009 | Show parent
  #37
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
So it's possible to have the mics factory set to 96kHz (for example) and then plug a stereo pair directly into the 788T?

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Willett ➡️
The 788T is Mode-1 only.

So to clock the mics (if you have more than one) you have to go through a sample-rate converter.

However - the 788T has a sample-rate converter built-in. So best to set the mics to 88.2 or 96kHz and record on the 788T at 44.1 or 48kHz. All mics will be clocked.

If you use the Neumann connection kits you can only use one mic. or have to use a sample-rate converter.
Old 12th March 2009 | Show parent
  #38
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
Things I love about the D01's:
tons of overhead
extremely fast
incredibly quiet
holographic sound, incredible "reach"
very impressive top end extension
super versatile- multiple polar patterns
the D01 is clean and reacts in an unusually open way with plugins.
ease of setup
remote controllable
the onboard DSP is hip and useable- can change the character of the mic by using light amounts of compression or the de-esser & get a darker or "springier" reaction.
most of all, it's a unique tool- I just regard it as another useful element for our pallete- one that's transparent without being boring. It creates a context for our chunkier sounding mics- ribbons and so on.
Things I'm less fond of:
The converters are very good, we have smoother high end ones here though.
I would love it if it had a modular design
rigorously quick and accurate means not thick and chunky- although its character can be altered using the control panel. Just scratching the surface on that.
tends to present a broad holographic image rather than selectively "grabbing" elements.
Old 12th March 2009 | Show parent
  #39
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aodagreat's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by scrootable labs ➡️
Things I love about the D01's:
tons of overhead
extremely fast
incredibly quiet
holographic sound, incredible "reach"
very impressive top end extension
super versatile- multiple polar patterns
the D01 is clean and reacts in an unusually open way with plugins.
ease of setup
remote controllable
the onboard DSP is hip and useable- can change the character of the mic by using light amounts of compression or the de-esser & get a darker or "springier" reaction.
most of all, it's a unique tool- I just regard it as another useful element for our pallete- one that's transparent without being boring. It creates a context for our chunkier sounding mics- ribbons and so on.
Things I'm less fond of:
The converters are very good, we have smoother high end ones here though.
I would love it if it had a modular design
rigorously quick and accurate means not thick and chunky- although its character can be altered using the control panel. Just scratching the surface on that.
tends to present a broad holographic image rather than selectively "grabbing" elements.
Any thought of the TLM 03D I'm looking at one for my home studio and somewhere down the line maybe upgrading to the DO1.I know the TLM 03D has some of the same specs just a different capsule.Anyone tried it yet?
Old 12th March 2009 | Show parent
  #40
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
Here are some drumtracks, uploaded to soundcloud...
2x DO1 (OH)
1x D01 (kik)

There's some conversion involved in the upload, adds some schmutz to the track - but you should be able to get some impression of how the mics perform. Haven't tried the .wav download, may sound better.

in the midsection, the drums drop out and you just hear bleed from other instruments in the room.
Old 13th March 2009 | Show parent
  #41
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aodagreat's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by scrootable labs ➡️
Here are some drumtracks, uploaded to soundcloud...
2x DO1 (OH)
1x D01 (kik)

There's some conversion involved in the upload, adds some schmutz to the track - but you should be able to get some impression of how the mics perform. Haven't tried the .wav download, may sound better.

in the midsection, the drums drop out and you just hear bleed from other instruments in the room.
That sounds excellent it has a very clean sound.Im impressed! Now im trying to decide whether to go with the TLM 03D or the DO1? Any suggestions
Old 13th March 2009 | Show parent
  #42
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by aodagreat ➡️
That sounds excellent it has a very clean sound.Im impressed! Now im trying to decide whether to go with the TLM 03D or the DO1? Any suggestions
The D01 is a dual membrane capsule
The 103D is single, fundamentally different design.

the TLM 103 D is cardioid only
the D01 will run in omni, figure 8, around 15 patterns in all.

The D01 comes with the DMI-2 interface box,controlling the D01's internal dynamics & EQ processing and so on.
I'm not sure what options exist for the TLM 103D.

Big price difference between the two.
The 103D can be had for around a G
The D01 lists new for around $7k- it's possible to find deals however.
Hope this helps..!
Old 13th March 2009 | Show parent
  #43
Gear Maniac
 
aodagreat's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by scrootable labs ➡️
The D01 is a dual membrane capsule
The 103D is single, fundamentally different design.

the TLM 103 D is cardioid only
the D01 will run in omni, figure 8, around 15 patterns in all.

The D01 comes with the DMI-2 interface box,controlling the D01's internal dynamics & EQ processing and so on.
I'm not sure what options exist for the TLM 103D.

Big price difference between the two.
The 103D can be had for around a G
The D01 lists new for around $7k- it's possible to find deals however.
Hope this helps..!
The d01 sounds like the better investment and way more flexible
Old 13th March 2009 | Show parent
  #44
Gear Guru
 
🎧 20 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by scrootable labs ➡️
Things I'm less fond of:
The converters are very good, we have smoother high end ones here though.
I would love it if it had a modular design

by modular design, you mean a Digital Microphone that DOESN'T have a built in A/D?? heh

One that allows you to swap out for the A/D of your choice?

I think that's called a "mic".

I am sure the Solution D is a lovely mic, but I bet it you opened it up, you would see a capsule, a preamp and an an A/D. Where is the breakthrough technology?

I bet if you removed the A/D and substituted a high-end A/D of your choice it would sound just as good, or maybe better. Why should I assume that the quality and character of the mic is due mainly to the fact that they stuck the converter inside the housing of the microphone?

It seems to me that all you are doing when you buy a mic like this is "marrying" yourself to Today's A/D technology state-of-the-art.

If a Digital mic came out in 1985 it's probable that it would today be considered useless. A plain old mic mic from 1985 would likely have retained its value.
Old 14th March 2009 | Show parent
  #45
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
I bet it you opened it up, you would see a capsule, a preamp and an an A/D. Where is the breakthrough technology?
The D01 uses two converters.

The first one bypasses the amplifier stage entirely
-high amplitude signals are converted straight from the capsule without preamplification.

Quieter signals are amplified and fed to the second converter.

The two signals are summed digitally in the body of the mic.
The summed signal is 28 bit, with a 130 db dynamic range.

The mic has internal compression, limiting and de-essing capabilities, remote controllable. these occur within the body of the mic and are integrated to work with the output from the converter.

it's a different kind of sound and workflow- whether the sound works for you or not is another matter.

Quote:
It seems to me that all you are doing when you buy a mic like this is "marrying" yourself to Today's A/D technology state-of-the-art.
I like the technology, but I'd agree that this is a drawback, something to keep in mind.
And with a design of this complexity, I'm sure the conversion stage is just the tip of the iceberg.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq ➡️
by modular design, you mean a Digital Microphone that DOESN'T have a built in A/D?? heh
One that allows you to swap out for the A/D of your choice?
I think that's called a "mic".
I had something more like this in mind...
Old 14th March 2009 | Show parent
  #46
Gear Guru
 
🎧 20 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by scrootable labs ➡️
The D01 uses two converters.

The first one bypasses the amplifier stage entirely
-high amplitude signals are converted straight from the capsule without preamplification.

Quieter signals are amplified and fed to the second converter.

The two signals are summed digitally in the body of the mic.
The summed signal is 28 bit, with a 130 db dynamic range.

Ok well, that's more than I thought was going on. (Wasn't that how they used to get up to 16 bits back when 16 bits was just out of reach?) And I can see how the unamplified part of the signal might not survive a long trip, justifying having conversion right at the mic.

Still, I wonder how many people trust that the converters won't be obsolete in a few years.

Quote:
The mic has internal compression, limiting and de-essing capabilities, remote controllable. these occur within the body of the mic and are integrated to work with the output from the converter.
Interesting. So these are digital compressors? Plug-ins inside the mic as it were?

can they be upgraded or replaced?

Quote:
it's a different kind of sound and workflow- whether the sound works for you or not is another matter.
While I am more curious about the sound than I was before, it's the price that doesn't work for me. heh
Old 14th March 2009 | Show parent
  #47
Lives for gear
 
GYang's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Mic with nice pre, compressor/limiter.de-esser and great AD converter, well, I only miss separate headphones out actually
Old 14th March 2009 | Show parent
  #48
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq ➡️
Interesting. So these are digital compressors? Plug-ins inside the mic as it were?
Given the sound and the level of integration, I tend to think of these processors as tools to directly shape the mic's response- rather than something one would apply later.

Quote:
can they be upgraded or replaced?
The peak limiter and comp are updated as of February, 2009.
Previously gain reduction could only be applied to signals down to 2k or so as a de-esser; it can be full range now if so desired.
J
Old 14th March 2009 | Show parent
  #49
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Wouldnt this be a good use for people who want to run the mic via Spdif into an mbox? Not the D-01 but something like the $1700 TLM 103D? This would save on having to purchase a pre and upgrades the convertors, right?
Old 14th March 2009 | Show parent
  #50
Gear Guru
 
John Willett's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
You are forgetting the KM-D series which is fully digital and has interchangeable heads. heh
Old 15th March 2009 | Show parent
  #51
Gear Guru
 
🎧 20 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq
Interesting. So these are digital compressors? Plug-ins inside the mic as it were?
Quote:
Originally Posted by scrootable labs ➡️
Given the sound and the level of integration, I tend to think of these processors as tools to directly shape the mic's response- rather than something one would apply later.

so that's a yes. heh
Old 15th March 2009 | Show parent
  #52
Gear Guru
 
matt thomas's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletcher ➡️
What ever happened to solutions A, B and C?

Will there be another model after the Solution D?... or is the Solution D their final solution?
Since this threads quite old I wouldn't be surprised if they were on to Preparation H by now..

narco
Old 15th March 2009 | Show parent
  #53
Gear Guru
 
matt thomas's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
heres a vid with info about it

Solution D

narco
Old 15th March 2009 | Show parent
  #54
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq ➡️
Still, I wonder how many people trust that the converters won't be obsolete in a few years.
"Obsolete" is kind of a strong term...
The converters do go up to 192 Khz-if these become obsolete, we'll have bigger issues to deal with over here- and a lot of retooling to do.

The bigger question, if I read you correctly, has to do with combining the output from multiple converters & what that can mean in subjective terms.. a worthwhile and interesting subject for sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq ➡️
so that's a yes. heh
It's a sorta. Yes, the mic incorporates a DSP for dynamics processing, that's the simplest answer.
Question that interests me is where in the circuit the processing occurs- and to what degree it's tweaked to work specifically with the onboard converters & digital summing stage.
Old 15th March 2009 | Show parent
  #55
Gear Maniac
 
aodagreat's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by scrootable labs ➡️
"Obsolete" is kind of a strong term...
The converters do go up to 192 Khz-if these become obsolete, we'll have bigger issues to deal with over here- and a lot of retooling to do.

The bigger question, if I read you correctly, has to do with combining the output from multiple converters & what that can mean in subjective terms.. a worthwhile and interesting subject for sure.


It's a sorta. Yes, the mic incorporates a DSP for dynamics processing, that's the simplest answer.
Question that interests me is where in the circuit the processing occurs- and to what degree it's tweaked to work specifically with the onboard converters & digital summing stage.
It's two mics im really considering, the Solution D and the Sony C800g.I think the digital solution of the D is awesome but in comparison which is the better investment? The tube in the Sony I know burns out after a certain amount of hours of use and thats always been a concern for me.So the solution D would be ideal.Any thoughts?
Old 17th March 2009 | Show parent
  #56
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by aodagreat ➡️
It's two mics im really considering, the Solution D and the Sony C800g.I think the digital solution of the D is awesome but in comparison which is the better investment? The tube in the Sony I know burns out after a certain amount of hours of use and thats always been a concern for me.So the solution D would be ideal.Any thoughts?


If you don't have a good tube LDC & you track a lot of vocals, that'd probably be the place to start.
Another good call would be to get a variety of quality less-expensive mics & cover a lot of ground.

The D01 is a clear, defined sound, super quiet. The sound has body, it isn't stereotypically digital-thin. But it's a specific thing in its way- it doesn't add extra chunkiness, color or tubey contour to a signal.
So it depends on your needs.

This is still new technology, so you won't find a lot of consensus yet on how they can be used.
hope this helps...
Old 17th March 2009 | Show parent
  #57
Gear Maniac
 
toulcit's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
When i was at SAE i asked a guy who worked there what he thought about those digital mics, and his reaction was that he didn't like them because he din't like the fact that there will be more electronics cramped into a tiny space. Just more stuff to break..
Old 21st March 2009 | Show parent
  #58
Gear Guru
 
John Willett's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianHanke ➡️
So it's possible to have the mics factory set to 96kHz (for example) and then plug a stereo pair directly into the 788T?
Yes - or if the Factory can't do it, Sennheiser UK can.

You just plug it into a DMI-2 and set the settings you want and save them as default.
Old 29th March 2009 | Show parent
  #59
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
nonscientific comparison

three totally unrelated signal paths:

D01 (set on cardioid, no DSP)
Schoeps/GML/Lavry
Wunder CM7/GML/Lavry

brassworks, supremely noodley
quick tracking, w/no warranty implied...
88.2 khz

cheers

Josh
Old 29th March 2009 | Show parent
  #60
Lives for gear
 
Emanuel23's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by scrootable labs ➡️
three totally unrelated signal paths:

D01 (set on cardioid, no DSP)
Schoeps/GML/Lavry
Wunder CM7/GML/Lavry

brassworks, supremely noodley
quick tracking, w/no warranty implied...
88.2 khz

cheers

Josh
Lovely samples, thanks Josh!

Wunder chain is my fav, but D01 a very close second.
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