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Dynaudio bm15a,adams3a KnH o300d and barefoot MM27
Old 30th April 2006
  #1
Gear Nut
 
🎧 15 years
Dynaudio bm15a,adams3a KnH o300d and barefoot MM27

I can demo the Dynaudio's KnH and the Adam's.Not the barefoot's (no distributor here in the uk).
Been working on dynaudio BM6a for the last 3 yrs.
From what I hear the barefoots are awesome.Tax and transport into the uk would bump up the price quite a bit.
Anyone tried the KnH (they are three way)?

help pls?

Which are more suited for mixing mainly dance music.
I wanna hear that bass..
Old 30th April 2006
  #2
Gear Maniac
 
iziphonics's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I've o300ds and they are excellent. Yes you will hear bass on them, no doubt. It's very solid really easy to estimate what's going on in the low end.
I've never heard Barefoots, but for me K+H beats both Adams and Dynaudios I demoed before deciding to get o300ds. Well all of those are great boxes, best for you if you compered them side by side.
Old 30th April 2006 | Show parent
  #3
Gear Maniac
 
iziphonics's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Anyone tried the KnH (they are three way)?
Yes, 3 way.
Old 30th April 2006 | Show parent
  #4
Here for the gear
 
🎧 15 years
I resently demoed ADAM S3A against K+H O300D (in my own acoustically welnown control room)


There was no doubt, K+H beats ADAM so badly


The mids on ADAM seems to be honky, I really don't like it compare to K+H that seems
to have the most flat frequency respons, ever heard on a studio monitor.


considering that you work with dance music you would like to have a sub, with the K+H, they dont play loud (read: AnR pleaser)
Old 30th April 2006
  #5
Gear Nut
 
🎧 15 years
Thanks for the input guys.
Old 30th April 2006 | Show parent
  #6
Here for the gear
 
🎧 15 years
Just opinion

i have bm15 with sub 12 (sub is only to check what is going under 38Hz and is most of time turned off). Yes, love bm15, blablabla...
Opinion (if you have good acustic in control room don't read anymore):
Don't spend everything for monitors. Get something for room acustic like ASC bass traps! After puting traps in my control room bass transients has come to life and i think, for dance music, is very important to have clean bass transients especialy if you work 130+ bpm.
(i'm also working with dance music)
Old 30th April 2006 | Show parent
  #7
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Greg Wells's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
You definitely need a rocking subwoofer for the booty shake factor, regardless of what speakers you choose. And nice neighbors.
Old 30th April 2006 | Show parent
  #8
Gear Nut
 
🎧 15 years
I have never worked with subs and im just concerned about how good your room needs to be before you just create more problems for yourself.

j
Old 30th April 2006 | Show parent
  #9
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Greg Wells's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
You'll never know until you hear it.
Old 30th April 2006 | Show parent
  #10
Gear Nut
 
🎧 15 years
This is true.
I guess im gonna have to find someone that will give me a demo rig for a week or so..
Old 1st May 2006 | Show parent
  #11
Barefoot Sound
 
barefoot's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Wells
You definitely need a rocking subwoofer for the booty shake factor, regardless of what speakers you choose.
The MicroMain27 already has subs. Each speaker contains two 10" subs driven by a 500W amp. They go down to 33Hz and then drop off at 1/4 the rate of ported subs. The sealed cabinet design also has superior transient response.

Jayjay, you can definitely here that bass. But it's completely tight and un-muddy. I produce my own electronic music whenever I get a spare moment - mostly breaks and deep dark downtempo stuff. So I have given a lot of consideration to the demands of synthetic music, if only for selfish reasons.

Thomas
Old 1st May 2006 | Show parent
  #12
Lives for gear
 
kingofswing's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayjay
This is true.
I guess im gonna have to find someone that will give me a demo rig for a week or so..

Hi, Speak to KMR Audio, they are a great pro audio dealer in the UK and can loan you some speakers as they did for me.

BTW heres my little review of the Adam S3a's and K&H o300d.

'I am looking to make an upgrade soon (from my P33a's), and found these two monitors to be the best choice for me (3-way and do not cost as much as the top British brands). They are both high end monitors, both 3-way (whilst i feel the 0300d's to be a true 3-way design), both are German speakers (which i trust in terms of overall engineering + consistency), both similar price, both have pros and cons.

I found no clear winner in my demoing, both translate mixes very well for me (i was quite impressed), give or take here or there.

I started by playing familiar recordings through them (as most of us do), followed by extensive sound tests with my collection of sounds from softsynths to romplers. I wanted to compare and contrast the tonal character of each speaker by playing various sources of sounds through them.

The S3a's are typical Adam to my ears. I am not going to go much into it, other than they are extremely fast speakers with an extremely tight bottom end (though not as deep as the O300d's, but still tighter). The bass is very clean and uncoloured or hyped, alowing you to hear bass as well as feeling it (although i would feel the need to add the Sub10 in the future). The S3a's have superb detail in the midrange as well as the high range (ART tweeter), and a very nice stereo image (once you find the right spot and positioning). The overall sound is quite neutral compared to my P33s (as playing various midrange heavy material confirmed this).

Now the K+H O300d's:

Very nice design, love the 3-way separation. In my room (Untreated, but i wasnt blasting the speakers) the bass was pretty rounded, deep and felt just right (after i adjusted the bass tilt on the back by -1 notch). The bass is very clean, but i felt that they are not as tight as the S3a's (i had quite a few opinions on this). The o300d's do go deeper down to below 40hz (compared to the S3a's), and the bass can be felt and not just heard. If you are in a small room, a sub is not needed IMO. They go plenty deep.

The midrange is very neutral and well placed. Voices are the main highlight, which bothers me a little (me). I find that the o300d's does something to the vocal range (on almost every commercial song played through them) that really brings them out in the mix. Not sure why, but (to my ears) it leaves the rest of the track tucked back a tad little. They are not as forward as the Adams, but this may be a good or a bad thing (im not going to go into it)...its a matter of taste. Both speakers are at the top end for nearfields.

Solo tracks with instruments such as piano's, strings, flutes, etc, are reproduced with a very smooth clarity, natural and uncoloured. However in a busy track things are not as easy to identify. IMO the S3a's held up better with busy tracks at decent sound levels.

The top end is very smooth and extended, yet far from harsh (similar to the small models in the new Genelec 8000 series). They do make some vocals appear a little edgy or swirly, which can get to you ears after a while.

But like i said above both speakers are stunning, they translate very well (give or take slight mix amendments needed). You may still need to reference on other playback systems, which doesnt hurt.

I am now stuck in the mud with these two speaker choices, with no clear winners. They both work for me, but one pair has to make its way back to me.

So there you go, thats my little experience with the K+H (and the S3a's)'
Old 1st May 2006 | Show parent
  #13
Gear Nut
 
🎧 15 years
Hey Barefoot,

I really like the sound of the mm27.
How much would they cost?
Im in the uk aswell and I see there isn't a distibutor over here...YET!!!
The tax, import duties and shipping are a worry and considerable ££££
but saying that if the price is right they might be the perfect solution.

Is there anywhere in the uk that has a set I could listen to?

Thanks

James
Old 1st May 2006 | Show parent
  #14
Lives for gear
 
studjo's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
between the Adams and the K&H I'd go with the K&H in my room without a second thought (in my room - with my ears and my taste)

but I had the Focals Sm11 (which are way pricier than both) at the same time in my studio and guess what's still there



Jo
Old 1st May 2006 | Show parent
  #15
Lives for gear
 
GYang's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
K+H 300 here replaced ADAMs that replaced Dynaudios.
Also, I tried them against anything else available is 5000 $ range, still K+H is the winner, but PMC was always close 2nd.
Smooth and resolute, that's all truth about K+H. I do my work on much lower levels now, as I can hear what I need to hear.
With O800 subwoofers they are simply excellent in the low end.

I use 300+2 subs and this combination increases overall power of the system to sufficient level for very loud monitoring (deep bass by O300 is there without subs, but subs take part of low end load from woofers and improve overall tightness and loudness).

In Europe 300+800 (1pc) can be found around 5 k.
Old 1st May 2006 | Show parent
  #16
Lives for gear
 
kingofswing's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
The more i think about it, the KnH o300d's sound just like my Sen HD600 headphones. Open, clear and transparent. But still they give out some solid deep bass that doesnt sound hyped or muddy. Even for me, between the S3a's and the KnH...its a tough one. I like both.
Old 1st May 2006 | Show parent
  #17
Lives for gear
 
GYang's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingofswing
The more i think about it, the KnH o300d's sound just like my Sen HD600 headphones. .
For that reason (probably) Senheiser acquired K+H recently. Hope it will bring many good news.
Old 2nd May 2006 | Show parent
  #18
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blackcatdigi's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by GYang
For that reason (probably) Senheiser acquired K+H recently. Hope it will bring many good news.
Like all the fantastic new microphones they've manufactured as NeumannΒ©?
heh
Old 21st June 2007 | Show parent
  #19
Lives for gear
 
mixerguy's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackcatdigi ➑️
Like all the fantastic new microphones they've manufactured as NeumannΒ©?
heh
ha ha ha ha!

Old 21st June 2007 | Show parent
  #20
Lives for gear
 
matucha's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
as I wrote many times here:

BM15A - not in the league of KH and ADAM

O300D - nice round bass, nice dynamics and detail, they sound big and open... great for electronic music and modern sound

S3A - deep bass is there, but it leaves you wanting more and bigger, you can learn it, but it isn't 100% satisfactory, but it gives you a lot of info if you listen and doesn't only focus on stomach massage. On the other side I find them more detailed than KH overal... but mostly in the mids. To my ears they are also smoother and more natural in the HF, where KH have too much air leaving them a bit too hifi for my taste.

I agree with most of the posts here, except for the ones that say O300D kill S3A, because that happens only if you listen to bass and ignore the rest.

To recommend a speaker, KH300D are on the safe side, because they sound pretty impressive and it is hard not to like them, while S3A are very strict and not everyone is going to like the fact a lot of stuff sounds like dfegad on them.

And again it is soooo individual, you really need to bring your candidates to your place and work with them.


Good luck
Old 21st June 2007 | Show parent
  #21
Gear Maniac
 
eleo's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Wow, old thread...

my 2 cents:

I went for the Adams, simply because I believe that anything I mixed on them sounds fabulous outside the studio.
Great studio tools, no hype on any frequencies , fast as hell .
Every engineer (even clients) that came to my studio the first time, had difficulties judging these speakers because they simply are not speakers for joyful listening.
they were shocked, how bad some of their favorite mixes sounded on these and:
voila, how good some other mixes (all andy wallace stuff, the first coldplay, 50 cent etc.) sounded
Thats what a speaker should do.
REVEAL WEAKNESS

The 0 300D are great speakers too, but simply sound like an expensive version
of Genelecs new 80ies series.
The highs and mids are just not for me, a little too hi-fi -ish.

so, choose or loose fuuck

best,#

eleo
Old 21st June 2007 | Show parent
  #22
Lives for gear
 
audiomichael's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by eleo ➑️
The 0 300D are great speakers too, but simply sound like an expensive version of Genelecs new 80ies series. The highs and mids are just not for me, a little too hi-fi -ish.
Perhaps...but in the same way that S3a's sound like expensive NS10s. It's a pretty big leap though.

I have 0300 + 0800 sub. The sub integrates amazingly well.

I like S3A's and have gotten good mixes on them, but I don't really like listening to them. Things sound different on them to me.

I've had BM15A's and AIR15's. Not even close in class to 0300 or S3A. They're good speakers, and have wide freq range, but the detail across the spectrum isn't there.
Old 18th September 2007 | Show parent
  #23
Lives for gear
 
mixerguy's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
anyone else wanna chime in?

for the record - I REALLY don't like the Adams that I have heard - they sound honky to me....

YMMV

Old 18th September 2007 | Show parent
  #24
Kush Audio
 
u b k's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by eleo ➑️
they were shocked, how bad some of their favorite mixes sounded on these...

Thats what a speaker should do. REVEAL WEAKNESS

but it begs the question: how is it 'weakness', or what does it matter if there *was* weakness, if these were some of their favorite mixes?

iow, if a mix only falls apart on a select few breeds of studio monitors which are, by your own admission, not for playback enjoyment, is that really revealing something in a way that has relevance? is all honesty valuable? if my lady looked amazing no matter where she went, but suddenly had flaws that only showed up in a few plastic surgeons' offices that had special lighting, i'd question the value of that lighting *in her case*.

btw, i'm a huge fan of s3a's. i just think that what many think of as 'weakness' is, in fact, character, the kind that endears. that your clients loved those mixes speaks to this.


gregoire
del
ubk
.
Old 18th September 2007 | Show parent
  #25
TSM
Gear Addict
 
TSM's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I'm just about to jump ship from 824's to maybe Focal Twin 6. I have a demo pair coming next week. Maybe I should check out the K&H too.Money is a big concern and going with the Focal is about all I can afford at the moment. Is there really a BIG difference between Focal and K&H. Should I wait and save up....
Thanks
Old 18th September 2007 | Show parent
  #26
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
Man, you put that perfectly.


Quote:
Originally Posted by u b k ➑️
but it begs the question: how is it 'weakness', or what does it matter if there *was* weakness, if these were some of their favorite mixes?

iow, if a mix only falls apart on a select few breeds of studio monitors which are, by your own admission, not for playback enjoyment, is that really revealing something in a way that has relevance? is all honesty valuable? if my lady looked amazing no matter where she went, but suddenly had flaws that only showed up in a few plastic surgeons' offices that had special lighting, i'd question the value of that lighting *in her case*.

btw, i'm a huge fan of s3a's. i just think that what many think of as 'weakness' is, in fact, character, the kind that endears. that your clients loved those mixes speaks to this.


gregoire
del
ubk
.
Old 11th November 2007 | Show parent
  #27
Lives for gear
 
mixerguy's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
anyone else compared the MM 27's to any of the other monitors listed here?

heh
Old 11th November 2007 | Show parent
  #28
Gear Addict
 
Marineville's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I am currently auditioning a pair of K+H 0300s with the 0800 sub and they are indeed very impressive. Coming from Genelecs I find the sound of the K+H quite similar but less fatiguing, and the three way design when coupled with the sub sounds incredibly open. I tried the Adams S3A before the K+H and also found them a bit 'honky' in the mids and not as clean as the K+H. I guess they are an aquired taste but I need to impress clients!

I'm dealing with HHB here in the UK and they are sending over some ATC SCM20s and PMC AML1s next week to compare with the K+H and my old Genelecs. The Barefoots were also on my list but I couldn't find a dealer in London or the UK.

The 0300s also come in white which sound like a fab and groovy idea!
Old 11th November 2007 | Show parent
  #29
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mixerguy ➑️
anyone else compared the MM 27's to any of the other monitors listed here?

heh
I have had the following sitting next to my barefoots -
Lipinski 707, Focal Twins and Solos, Gen 8040, 8250, S3a's, ns-10's, Quested 3208, PMC aml1's, LB1's, and probably a few others. Did not have the chance to put the K&H head to head with them all though I have worked with them on several occasions. I have also worked on BM6's and 15's.

I mostly agree with the posts in this thread with the exception of the comments about S3a's being "honky".
Yeah they are mid forward but for mixes that's a thing of beauty. If not to my listening ears certainly to my mixes.

I bought the barefoots and have not had any doubts about that purchase.
S3a's are missed though and I plan to re-buy them at some point if only for that very forward midrange. They show you 700-3k like nothing else. It isn't always fun to listen to but they lead you to making small tweeks that you would not have made on any other monitors and your mixes will thank you for it.

Genelecs = scooped and odd. I used them for years and years. Had to go to detox before I could admit how scooped they are.

Focals - great bang for the buck but not my first choice even in their price range.

K&H - great monitors. Sound lovely. weeeee bit scooped which is why they sound so good. could easily and happily live with them.

S3a's - 2cnd greatest mix monitor. Never loved the way they sounded but really loved how my mixes translated from them.

Dynaudio - Not as bad as genelecs but close. scooped and lacking in mids which again is probably why they sound good.

Quested - the S range is my bang for the buck winner. open sounding - no hype no scoop and priced right. The larger 3 ways are a thing a beauty.

Lipinski - most natural and open speakers I have ever heard. Very revealing.

Barefoots - natural - open- extended - no hype - mids are fully represented. Nothing missing. Nothing hyped for the demo room listening session. The subs integrate beautifully and in fact don't come off sounding like "SUBS". Worth every penny.


just my 2cents worth of worthless opinions.
Old 18th November 2007 | Show parent
  #30
Gear Addict
 
Marineville's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Well I had a listen to the ATC SCM20s and really didn't like them. Compared to the K+H 0300 with 0800 sub I thought they were flat and lifeless. The PMC AML1s were a surprise though being surprisingly detailed, but again didn't stack up against the Klein + Hummels to my ears. I would still love to hear some Barefoots but there really isn't any chance of that happening so I have some Focal SM11s coming over next week for audition instead. Horribly expensive here in the UK but I feel I need to hear the difference to the K+H (if any) before I reach for my cheque book.

Any thoughts on the MM27 compared to the Focal SM11?
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