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What Converters should I buy? Need 32 Ch's D To A, 8 Ch's A to D, Pro Tools 10 Native
Old 19th December 2011
  #1
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🎧 10 years
What Converters should I buy? Need 32 Ch's D To A, 8 Ch's A to D, Pro Tools 10 Native

Greetings
I am running Pro Tools 10 on a quad Core Mac Pro. (2009 Nehelim)
At the moment I am running an Avid Mbox Pro but am getting a lot of firewire bus errors which is very frustrating. (and only 4 Ch's of I/O)

I have a 32 Ch SSL style summing box being built for me.
So want to buy 32 Ch's of D to A conversion to run thru the Summing Box for mixing.
I only need to track 8 or maybe up to 16 Ch's of A to D.

Question....
What converters should I buy?

I was considiering an HDX system but by the time I add 2 x 16 x 16 Analog boxes it's getting well over $12,000.
That would be cool - to have the power of an HD5 plus 32 Ch's of I/O but... don't want to spend that much cash.

What coverters would you recommend?
32 Ch's of Digital to Analog on dsub for mixing.
8 or 16 Ch's of Analog to Digital for tracking.
I'm nervous about Firewire due to my current 6085 errors....

Thanks in advance.
Old 19th December 2011
  #2
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ddageek's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Are we talking HD Native, or PT software?
Old 19th December 2011
  #3
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Protools HD Native Card with Avid HD I/O's is what I would do. I think there is a $1,500 discount going on right now on HD Native Cards with 8X8 Avid HD i/0, but it ends in the next few days, so you better hurry.

If you want to save some cash, buy some used Apogee DA16X's with Symphony card.
Old 19th December 2011
  #4
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e-are's Avatar
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bforest4 ➑️

If you want to save some cash, buy some used Apogee DA16X's with Symphony card.
I agree totally. I have a big Ben and an apogee ad16, not the 16x, and just bought a da16 at a really good price. You can get 16 channels of apogee conversion , I/O, for $2000.00. That's a good deal bro.



Sent from my PC36100 using Gearslutz.com App
Old 19th December 2011
  #5
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Thanks guys.
Right now I am using PT10 software with an Mbox Pro but lot's of firewire bus issues stopping playback etc.

Over here in OZ HD|Native with avid converters (like an Analog 16 x 16) is up around AU$7000 'ish last time I checked.
Then I will need a second 16 x 16 Analog to give me 32 Ch's out.
I just don't want to spend that much cash.

I am considering an Apogee Symphony system which works out a fair bit cheaper by my calculation.
Plus will work perfectly with any other DAW. (I master with Samplitude on Bootcamp).
1 x Symphony 64 PCIe
1 x Symphony I/O Chassis
2 x I/O Module for Symphony: 16 Analog OUT and 16 Optical IN
Cables etc
1 x 8 Ch SMUX capable 8 Ch A to D converter (Lynx Aurora 8 with adat card?)

Any other systems I should be considering?
I definately want to work at 96k.
Old 19th December 2011
  #6
mixmixmix
Guest
Angus, congrats on a summing box you are building. Did you look into Echo Audio Audiofire 12? I run 2 of them on WIN XP, 24 in, 24 out - $1200. Sounds great, works well over Firewire. Good luck with your search.
Old 20th December 2011 | Show parent
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mixmixmix ➑️
Angus, congrats on a summing box you are building. Did you look into Echo Audio Audiofire 12? I run 2 of them on WIN XP, 24 in, 24 out - $1200. Sounds great, works well over Firewire. Good luck with your search.
Thanks Phillip - I am very nervous about Firewire interfaces due to the problems I have been having with the Mbox Pro but will check them out.

I am very excited about the SSL Mix Box - it uses a card from a 5000 series. heh
Old 20th December 2011
  #8
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Hey Angus,,,,

Not sure if I'm barking up the wrong tree, not knowing about Pro Tools Native and all, but what about two Lynx Aurora 16's which are probably less than $8,000.... ???? Nice Converters and reliable....

Michael
Old 20th December 2011 | Show parent
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beginagain2 ➑️
Hey Angus,,,,

Not sure if I'm barking up the wrong tree, not knowing about Pro Tools Native and all, but what about two Lynx Aurora 16's which are probably less than $8,000.... ???? Nice Converters and reliable....

Michael
Thanks Michael.
Without HD cards, HDX or HD|Native the only way to interface them to my Mac Pro is via Firewire - very nervous about that.
Old 20th December 2011 | Show parent
  #10
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bforest4 ➑️

If you want to save some cash, buy some used Apogee DA16X's with Symphony card.
having the ad/da16x's and owning the symphony io, if you chooses to go the apogee route I would go with the symphony io's. Im saving my pennies to buy a second and ditch my x series. Its not like the x series is a pig but the new stuff is much better to my ears, if your in the market for new converters.
Old 20th December 2011 | Show parent
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulOcchialini ➑️
having the ad/da16x's and owning the symphony io, if you chooses to go the apogee route I would go with the symphony io's. Im saving my pennies to buy a second and ditch my x series. Its not like the x series is a pig but the new stuff is much better to my ears, if your in the market for new converters.
Thanks Paul - are you using Pro Tools?
How are the drivers / stability of the Symphony?
Old 20th December 2011 | Show parent
  #12
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kittonian's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by anguswoodhead ➑️
Thanks Michael.
Without HD cards, HDX or HD|Native the only way to interface them to my Mac Pro is via Firewire - very nervous about that.
Is there some reason you can't use the AES16e PCIe cards? If you have a Mac Pro and aren't using PTHD cards you buy the Lynx AES16e and an Aurora16. You'll need one of each per 16 channels of i/o you wish to use.

I certainly wouldn't recommend going FW or USB if you don't have to, and especially when you have a Mac Pro with 3 available PCIe slots.
Old 20th December 2011 | Show parent
  #13
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by anguswoodhead ➑️
Thanks Paul - are you using Pro Tools?
How are the drivers / stability of the Symphony?
I mostly run cubendo, and logic, Protools is mostly a transfer tool for me. I find the the system to be fairly stable. I do have the very rare crash but I can't say for certain it is the symphony system or the DAW. Also when I change sample rates sometimes I need to restart to get input on the converter end of things. My only complaint is I'm still waiting for the low latency mixer. Not having it has impacted my workflow, i'm not too keen on running my buffer at 64 especially on lager sessions. But on the other hand I am very pleased that computers have gotten powerful enough to track 32 inputs at 96k and still have the musicians not have noticeable latency.

In comparison my x series sounds a bit heavy in the midrange, a little closed also. The symphony io is bigger sounding, more open and more real or true to life. My recordings also have better depth as well, I hear the room more and the converter less.
Old 20th December 2011 | Show parent
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kittonian ➑️
Is there some reason you can't use the AES16e PCIe cards? If you have a Mac Pro and aren't using PTHD cards you buy the Lynx AES16e and an Aurora16. You'll need one of each per 16 channels of i/o you wish to use.

I certainly wouldn't recommend going FW or USB if you don't have to, and especially when you have a Mac Pro with 3 available PCIe slots.
Thanks Joshua.
Old 20th December 2011 | Show parent
  #15
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anguswoodhead's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulOcchialini ➑️
I mostly run cubendo, and logic, Protools is mostly a transfer tool for me. I find the the system to be fairly stable. I do have the very rare crash but I can't say for certain it is the symphony system or the DAW. Also when I change sample rates sometimes I need to restart to get input on the converter end of things. My only complaint is I'm still waiting for the low latency mixer. Not having it has impacted my workflow, i'm not too keen on running my buffer at 64 especially on lager sessions. But on the other hand I am very pleased that computers have gotten powerful enough to track 32 inputs at 96k and still have the musicians not have noticeable latency.

In comparison my x series sounds a bit heavy in the midrange, a little closed also. The symphony io is bigger sounding, more open and more real or true to life. My recordings also have better depth as well, I hear the room more and the converter less.
I've heard mixed reviews about the stability of the Symphony system.
It is appealing though. heh
Old 20th December 2011
  #16
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mothership
Old 20th December 2011 | Show parent
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robertshaw ➑️
mothership
Old 20th December 2011 | Show parent
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anguswoodhead ➑️
Burl
Old 20th December 2011
  #19
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GoldMember's Avatar
 
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3x Ensemble = <$6OOOusd.
+
2x FW400 pcie siig Cards $15Ousd.
Newegg.com - Computer Hardware, SIIG, Inc, Add-On Cards, PCI Express to 1394 Card
means 24io @ 192khz, best converters. "better than Aurora, AD-16x, DA16x, Orpheus, RME, etc.."

or...
Apogee Symphony I/O chassis $16OOusd.
Symphony I/O 16x AES/EBU $4OOOusd.
Lynx AES16e $1OOOusd.
equals ~$66OOusd.

or...
PT HD core card instead of Lynx.
& 2x Symphony 16ch DA modules. = 32ch DA, for $4OOOusd. + Chasis.
equals ~$77OOusd.
Apogee Symphony I/O Features, Rear Panel Tour > Apogee Electronics

or USB 16 channels @ 44.1kHz - 96kHz
Old 20th December 2011 | Show parent
  #20
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by anguswoodhead ➑️
I've heard mixed reviews about the stability of the Symphony system.
I have too, I don't know, I have had very few problems. For whatever reason it seems to be most stable at 96k. I would try to set up a demo, I think most pro audio shops would have a few demo units available. Sometimes when I read of peoples problems on here I'm not always convinced its because of the product, but I also know a few things needed to ironed out as well.
Old 20th December 2011
  #21
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SSL alphalink +pcie card is a great deal for the $(prob my next move)
another option is ad/da 16/16x with a RME raydat pcie
Sonic Core A16 mkII with raydat or madi pcie - never heard but early reviews seem decent, good channel/$ ratio
burl mothership would be awesome but his super high dollar
Old 21st December 2011
  #22
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anguswoodhead's Avatar
 
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Honestly.. the way these higher end systems are pricing up I'm leaning towards a HDX system plus an avid 16 x 16 Analog Interface.
Then adding an 8 ch D-A card for 24 outs and 8 ins from the 16 x 16 Analog.
Old 21st December 2011
  #23
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by anguswoodhead ➑️
Honestly.. the way these higher end systems are pricing up I'm leaning towards a HDX system plus an avid 16 x 16 Analog Interface.
Then adding an 8 ch D-A card for 24 outs and 8 ins from the 16 x 16 Analog.
Allot of folks think their prices are high, they are actually pretty competitive. Don't you want 32 io though? I would at least get demos of the systems, it's like buying a car. Make sure your getting what you like.
Old 21st December 2011
  #24
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YOHAMI's Avatar
 
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Burl Mothership B0
Old 21st December 2011 | Show parent
  #25
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anguswoodhead's Avatar
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulOcchialini ➑️
Allot of folks think their prices are high, they are actually pretty competitive. Don't you want 32 io though? I would at least get demos of the systems, it's like buying a car. Make sure your getting what you like.
At a push I could live with 24 Outs if budget dictates it.
Where I am it's impossible to get demos.
I have to make a decision based off reviews and users comments.

Also I'm nervous that my 2009 Quad Core Mac Pro won't have enough grunt to run large projects at low buffer settings.
Old 21st December 2011
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldMember ➑️
3x Ensemble = <$6OOOusd.
+
2x FW400 pcie siig Cards $15Ousd.
Newegg.com - Computer Hardware, SIIG, Inc, Add-On Cards, PCI Express to 1394 Card
means 24io @ 192khz, best converters. "better than Aurora, AD-16x, DA16x, Orpheus, RME, etc.."

or...
Apogee Symphony I/O chassis $16OOusd.
Symphony I/O 16x AES/EBU $4OOOusd.
Lynx AES16e $1OOOusd.
equals ~$66OOusd.

or...
PT HD core card instead of Lynx.
& 2x Symphony 16ch DA modules. = 32ch DA, for $4OOOusd. + Chasis.
equals ~$77OOusd.
Apogee Symphony I/O Features, Rear Panel Tour > Apogee Electronics

or USB 16 channels @ 44.1kHz - 96kHz
Are you saying the Ensemble is the best converter and better than lynx, apogee, and prism? If so, you lost me as that is blatantly incorrect, and yes, I have owned all three.

Chris
Old 21st December 2011
  #27
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YOHAMI's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I think the native HD card can hold a pair of their 16x16? if so thats another option.
Old 21st December 2011 | Show parent
  #28
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anguswoodhead's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by YOHAMI ➑️
I think the native HD card can hold a pair of their 16x16? if so thats another option.
True but I'm worried my 2009 Quad Core Mac Pro is not up to large projects with lot's of Plugins and Instruments.
Old 21st December 2011
  #29
mixmixmix
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Why do you need to run projects low buffer settings?
Old 21st December 2011
  #30
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YOHAMI's Avatar
 
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You might want to upgrade the mac OR get an HDX
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