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Lexicon Lineage Discussion - Model 200 Reverb
Old 4th June 2011
  #1
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
Lexicon Lineage Discussion - Model 200 Reverb

Hello everyone,

I've been really wanting to find out as much information as possible on the Original Lexicon Model 200 Reverberator.

I've searched high and low (mainly on this forum but also google and wikipedia) for general info, user tidbits, lineage timeline, and various nuggets of knowledge regarding this particular reverb but mostly it's a quick mention when discussing the other Lex favorites like 480, 300 or 224 models. Would it be right to say the model 200 presets were based off the 224 reverbs?

As far as it's manufacturing date, the manual I downloaded off Lexicon's Legacy section has a production date of 1984. That would put this unit being produced by Lexicon after the 224 was released and before the 480L came onto the scene correct?

Does anyone know how long of a production run the 200 had? Mfg list price? Software revisions? Etc. From what I understand version 1.3 contained a 6th register of inverse rooms/reverbs. Did the earlier versions not have this register?

Also, there are remote jacks on the back of the unit (remote1 & remote2) and the manual states for future use but nothing came of this part of the reverb I assume. Was this abandoned due to some reason in particular?
Are there any favorite presets which its known for like the "tiled room" of the PCM70? It does seem to be one of the easiest units for hands-on tweaking due to it's 3RU analog interface and no digital layers.

Well, one of my favorite topics on Gearslutz seems to be threads discussing the Lexicon family of reverbs and their storied past and place in our profession but this one in particular has caught my interest. Possibly because it seems to be overlooked more than the others. They are quite hard to come by. I see only one on Ebay at the moment and they are asking $1,499.00. Is this a typical streetprice nowadays? Would you pay this much for a unit in great shape? If you own one would you let it go for $1,000.00?

I'm hoping those that once owned these units, currently use them, and/or those with historical knowledge can help add some insight into the Lexicon M200. I know it's kinda like going back into the time machine but it's a trip worth taking if you ask me.

Thanks so much for your insight and please do contribute & share if you can.
Old 4th June 2011
  #2
Registered User
 
Rick Sutton's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ciskosound ➑️

Mfg list price?
$4500 sticks with me.
Current price....who knows. I bought one used many, many years ago for $1000. Was glad to move it on for the same $. I like the 224 much more, which seems to have a current price of 1.5k so I wouldn't pay as much for a 200. Both are a time bomb risk though.
Old 4th June 2011
  #3
Lives for gear
 
Casey's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ciskosound ➑️
I've been really wanting to find out as much information as possible on the Original Lexicon Model 200 Reverberator.
The 224 was out of prod by the time the 200 came out in mid 84. The first release of the 200 was the Concert Hall, Plate and Chamber programs from the 224X. They were not identical, just ports.

When the 224X added rich plate and rich chamber, these were also ported to 200 in a second release. Dual mono chamber was added at this time as well. Then as you say, the inverse etc was added in a subsequent release.

It had a lifespan of just 2 years and listed at $4800 (Good memory Rick!) The 200 lived a short life due to the competition with the 60 which came out mid 85 then died when the 70 came out a year later.

The remote ports were put there "just in case", but the 200 never used it.

The analog section was barely usable. In fact Lexicon modified the meters to lie so that people would drive it hard!



-Casey
Old 5th June 2011 | Show parent
  #4
Lives for gear
 
Benmrx's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I've got a 200 here, and I absolutely love it. I got mine in trade for work I did at Cherokee Studios. I think $1,500 is pretty high. Maybe $1,200 in perfect shape.....
Old 5th June 2011 | Show parent
  #5
ValhallaDSP
 
seancostello's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casey ➑️
The 224 was out of prod by the time the 200 came out in mid 84. The first release of the 200 was the Concert Hall, Plate and Chamber programs from the 224X. They were not identical, just ports.

When the 224X added rich plate and rich chamber, these were also ported to 200 in a second release. Dual mono chamber was added at this time as well. Then as you say, the inverse etc was added in a subsequent release.
Two questions for you, Casey:

- How close are the 224X and 200 Concert Hall / Plate / Chamber algorithms to the original 224 algorithms? From reading the 224XL manual, they sound similar, but I know that the expanded parameters will imply some changes - for example, there was no "Size" parameter on the 224.
- How close will the Rich Plate / Rich Chamber be between the 200, 224X, and PCM70? I know that my PCM70 doesn't have chorusing in those algorithms, and my memory of using the 224XL is that it did have modulation in those algorithms. Does the 200 have modulation for these algorithms?
Old 7th June 2011 | Show parent
  #6
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
Here are a few pics of the Model 200 including the back panel which shows all of the extra 1/4" and remote ports.

Upon close inpection of this particular unit you'll see the two faders are broke off and the power button is missing. To get it to "power up" one needs to hit the reset button and it'll run through its normal boot up procedure. It's also missing one of the buttons. I guess the important part is that it still passes audio and sounds absolutely amazing. All of the editing functions work fine.

Does anyone know who might repair these older units (preferrably on the west coast)? This guy deserves some TLC when I get some extra coin. I looked for Jim Fabiano's website but it seems to turn up in Japanese writing or something...
Attached Thumbnails
Lexicon Lineage Discussion - Model 200 Reverb-dsc07961.jpg   Lexicon Lineage Discussion - Model 200 Reverb-dsc07966.jpg   Lexicon Lineage Discussion - Model 200 Reverb-dsc07967.jpg  
Old 7th June 2011 | Show parent
  #7
Lives for gear
 
oldgearguy's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
One thing about the 200 that always bothered me when I had it was the very fine line between 'sounding great' and 'distorted'. I pretty much ended up keeping a limiter in front of it in the signal chain so that it wouldn't overload and generate that crappy early digital distortion.

In contrast, the 224, 480, and 70 seemed to handle being driven hard with more grace.
Old 8th June 2011 | Show parent
  #8
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Here is some info on the 200:
Lexicon Model 200
Old 12th June 2011 | Show parent
  #9
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
I've been looking for a few Lexicon repair shops that could handle a refurbishment of a Model 200 and I think I may have found two of them:

Alive Sound

lexicon

Has anyone used either of these places for repair work? Any recommendations or past experience with either of these companies?
Old 25th June 2011 | Show parent
  #10
Gear Nut
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Reverberator 200

My 200 last year had to have the power capacitors replaced and the internal soldered in batteries, i would have to clear the reset button on power up. now it works perfect, it seems like a saw a 1893 :~) i mean 1983 date on mine but could be wrong... this is just a lovely reverb i like it as well as the real stereo plate we have in the drum room... also i kind of like pushing the verb into the amber, you can see if it clips coming thru the channel you can also adj. the right and left output screws, on the faceplate? I had to do that after replacing caps.... to even out & adj levels. anywho the verb echos in a nice way when pushed.... you can get a caddywhamps lg drum verb on like 4.2 just a little will do ya... these sound amazing and are built like a tank and you can dial in any verb. paid 300 for mine 10 years ago... Doyen
Old 25th June 2011 | Show parent
  #11
Lives for gear
 
yeloocproducer's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Alive Sound... highly recommended, they went through my 200 and it is very healthy now.

They have a clever solution for some of the (DA?) filters in there that are non-replaceable as well if yours have gone bad.
Old 25th June 2011 | Show parent
  #12
Lives for gear
 
bongo's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I think I remember paying around $4500.00 for mine and that was 1985 dollars. A lot has changed since then! I used it for many years.
Old 26th June 2011 | Show parent
  #13
Gear Guru
Anyone have EPROM's for these?
Old 27th June 2011 | Show parent
  #14
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
Actually yeloocproducer, I have sent the unit from the pictures above to the company that worked on yours -- Alive Sound.

I'm looking for solid work from them as the cost for repair exceeded the estimate I was given. In any case, I felt the unit deserved some TLC after all these years and it'll be great to use a vintage lexicon again.

(I owned a PCM90 many, many moons ago and although it was wonderful it was sold and was never replaced until this 200 fell into my lap.)

Casey, you mentioned that 'the analog section was barely usable'. I'm wondering why a product released after the 224X would've taken a step back like that?? At $4500 you wouldn't think it would've been an issue of cutting corners or reducing costs at Lexicon. I'm hoping Casey gets a chance to answer the questions posed by seancostello earlier as well...
Old 27th June 2011 | Show parent
  #15
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Casey's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ciskosound ➑️
Casey, you mentioned that 'the analog section was barely usable'. I'm wondering why a product released after the 224X would've taken a step back like that?? At $4500 you wouldn't think it would've been an issue of cutting corners or reducing costs at Lexicon.
Even though the 200 had a short life span, it sold very well during it's time in the sun. I don't think that it was a matter of cutting corners, as Lexicon has always made first rate stuff. I do think it was a matter of meeting a price point with the days technology. The 200 sold so well because it was priced somewhat less than half of the prior units.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ciskosound ➑️
I'm hoping Casey gets a chance to answer the questions posed by seancostello earlier as well...
Sean asked a lot of good questions and I have recollections just as he does, but I am not sure of any of them!



-Casey
Old 28th June 2011 | Show parent
  #16
Gear Guru
The analog sections are done reasonably well. Mostly 5532 opamps everywhere including the removable analog filter pcb's.

I replaced them with LME49720NA opamps, those do lower some noise. I even put them on the analog filter pcb's.

The weaknesses I find are the same as on their other processors, sloppy LF353 sample and hold opamps, etc. Drop in some Analog Devices AD 823's and the magic comes back. Use AD825's for the 351's.
Old 28th June 2011 | Show parent
  #17
ValhallaDSP
 
seancostello's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casey ➑️
Sean asked a lot of good questions and I have recollections just as he does, but I am not sure of any of them!
I don't have recollections,so much as hints. I am fairly versed in the algorithms of a few Lexicon verbs, and the 200 seems to have a similar mix of Lexicon algorithms from the 224 era (Halls, Chambers, Plates) and the "Rich"-type algorithms that first emerged in the 224XL, and ended up being closer to the "canonical" Lexicon algorithms (Rich Plate, Split Chamber, Inverse Room). Mind you, this is just based on reading the 200 manual, and knowing how algorithms with similar names and descriptions mapped to other Lexicon units.

One of the reasons I am asking about this, besides my general obsession with old reverb algorithms: I am always trying to figure out what the difference was between the "high end" Lexicons, and the lower end units. It seems like Lexicon used modulation in the higher end reverbs, and often left it out of the cheaper units.

As an illustration, the following Lexicons had modulated reverbs (defined as time varying delay lines within the recursive structure, or time varying output taps from the reverb structure):

224
224X/L
200
PCM70 (Concert Hall only)
480L
300
PCM80/81
PCM90/91

The following Lexicons had no modulation in their reverb algorithms:

PCM60
PCM70 (all algorithms apart from Concert Hall, even though the 200/224X equivalent algorithms had chorusing)
LXP1
LXP5
LXP15

My LXP15 has a slave Z80 dedicated to pitch shifting and delay modulation, and has enough horsepower to calculate cross-correlation for determining pitch shift splicing points. There are multitap chorus algorithms, and combination pitch/reverb algorithms, so modulated delays are certainly possible in that box. In addition, many of the LXP15 programs I have seen have a fair amount of null instructions - they don't use the whole Lexichip. So the lack of modulation in the reverbs in this box doesn't seem to be a technical limitation.
Old 18th July 2011 | Show parent
  #18
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
I just picked up a real clean fully functional Lexicon 200 for a decent price.

I have been playing my Kurzweil orchestral stuff through it and WOW this is one nice sounding reverb. I have two Eventide 2016s in my rig, and this Lex 200 is a nice compliment. The chambers are heavenly, esp with strings.
Old 3rd February 2015
  #19
Lives for gear
 
Rumi's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
I have a Lexicon Model 200 (paid $800, as far as I recall), and I have to press the "reset" button every time I turn it on, otherwise it won't work (today there was not even an LED on after turning the unit on, until I pressed the reset button). Is this a battery problem? Is there any danger in keeping it that way? I don't intend to store settings in the unit.

I use the unit when I need a "reverb cloud" that sounds beautiful.

Last edited by Rumi; 3rd February 2015 at 05:28 PM..
Old 4th February 2015
  #20
Lives for gear
 
dfchandler's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
If those are the original batteries, replace them before they start leaking and damaging the circuit board and components.

Denny
Old 5th February 2015 | Show parent
  #21
Lives for gear
 
Rumi's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfchandler ➑️
If those are the original batteries, replace them before they start leaking and damaging the circuit board and components.

Denny
Hi Denny,

good point, thank you!
Old 19th March 2015
  #22
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
I made a demo of the lovely model 200 some years ago:



Rumi - I had the same problem before, but after replacing the battery everything works just fine.
Old 7th November 2015 | Show parent
  #23
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by reverberation ➑️
I made a demo of the lovely model 200 some years ago:



Rumi - I had the same problem before, but after replacing the battery everything works just fine.
Was thinking today about an old song I had put the 200 on, got a beautiful/haunting thick and long reverb. Made me do a search... and voila!... Great demo.

I can't seem to get quite the same thing happening in software land nowadays.

Nice to hear this unit again. Haven't used one in a very long time.
Old 7th November 2015 | Show parent
  #24
Lives for gear
 
Rumi's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by reverberation ➑️
I made a demo of the lovely model 200 some years ago:



Rumi - I had the same problem before, but after replacing the battery everything works just fine.
I have replaced the battery (it was already leaking, but thank God it hadn't reached the main board), and now everything works fine (except for one LED bar, but that is not related).
It's a nice device!
Old 8th November 2015
  #25
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
I used a 200 as my main reverb for over ten years and used it on a bunch of great mixes.
In 2003 I bought one again and only recently sold it.
I had a few 224s in the middle of owning the 200s and even had a 480 for a while.
I could do about the same stuff with all of them... as long as I didn't need Rich Plate which only the 224xl and 480 had.
Old 8th November 2015
  #26
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Jim's comments are interesting seeing as though the output stage was so runaway it ended up with the famous Iso opto for limiting, same as the Prime Time units etc. Maybe it was thought, the recirculating of the Reverb was just to huge? Might be a question for Gary Hall or Casey? Certainly a big sounding unit and if anything ever said Reverb the M200 did!
Two software revisions only if memory serves correctly, and man did Lexicon scream it out!
Those were the days no doubt! I'll upload an advert next time!
Old 16th November 2015 | Show parent
  #27
Lives for gear
 
Rumi's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams ➑️
Anyone have EPROM's for these?
For anyone who might need it: the EPROM content can be downloaded here: Lexicon Model 200 digital reverb
Old 9th September 2016
  #28
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
Just got the lexicon 200. Wow. Amazzzing.
Wow. No other word to describe it.
Own pcm 70 & 80. Haha. Different league.
Old 4th December 2017 | Show parent
  #29
Here for the gear
 
Did you recap the 200 yourself?
Old 5th December 2017 | Show parent
  #30
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by idob ➑️
Just got the lexicon 200. Wow. Amazzzing.
Wow. No other word to describe it.
Own pcm 70 & 80. Haha. Different league.
Hello idob,
Lucky you is probably the best and mist pleasant answer here as nabbing a great Lexicon 200 unit is indeed rare, the Units selling on eBay and numerous Reveb type places seem to be riddled with certain problems. Whilst many videos show resellers and A/V auction houses whom have picked up M200 models from $25-150.00 bucks in a huge "Broadcast and ex Plant Machinery deal" they're selling them fault ridden at $1250.00 plus and many (Most) are fault ridden with videos clearly showing relays clicking and resetting alongside fault strewn alpha Numeric issues appearing on screen and worst much worse! Stated as: "Normal Operational Techniques and Software"

Whilst this simply isn't true many have fallen for the Prime Time and M200 or PCM-60 merry go round where units for sale on eBay are purchased only to be sent back and bought by another yet again and again over and over again. The last version Software for the M200 has quite a few handy tricks from Split Reverbs such as a 224 type scenario to a "Freeze" algorithm where the internal memory cycles (4164 dram) the signal and spits it out in a beautiful cacophony of sound.

I'd say now as the owner of a Lexicon M200 I'd vibe out as many broken and busted units for spare parts alongside grabbing spare EPROMs, memory, parts both physical and internal alongside the Opto Isolater and make certain you've got immediate access to parts, ability to fix problems and certain hardware parts that possibly will go south and fail. You'll certainly require the schematics, the Errata for upgrades and downgrades alongside Service manual and Operations manuals etc. whilst these units certainly do have that "Old School" Lexicon sound they also are at an age where component failure can and does happen all too often even with ought consciously being aware the units faulting etc.

You should by now (If you google Lexicon 200 Reverb or M200) find a raft of opinions, details, manuals and service information some written years ago some recently. Lastly if the units working as in per specifications from Lexicon I'd rack it up and leave it. Don't drop test it nor move it or gig with it as here your just asking for trouble. People often wonder why I say "Google the GS Forum" and really it's simple as searching via google means you're including Lexicon 200 Reverb results which will bring up the most relevant and pertinent results minus the conversation in threads of years gone bye etc, often looking up certain things on GS only brings up the most recent threads.

Well, congratulations on purchasing an M200 and I hope you'll get years of great mileage out of the unit. There are now two to four places that do repair these units though your bill in services is only going to get higher if you make a tech spend 4 hours to 6 hours billable in searching for a part you've already stored and /or have kept as a replacement and a near ready to drop in and replacepart at that! Lastly although it has a delay function the M200 was seen by Lexicon as a unit to go to market so nas to not tie up the 224/X as an FX unit nor Reverb Unit though to allow a Prime Time MKII and M200 to take over those functions and at a hugely reduced cost. They started in 1983 to 1985/6 and Lexicon alongside the 60 and PrimeTime units sold thousands.

The 200/Prime Time series were hugely popular and more so in Broadcast and Video/Film as a 224 couldn't be justified though two multifunctional units could be. Again you can read that history above. Moreso you'll read on every Lexicon unit that its specifically branded as an "Effects Unit" - not Reverb unit. On Keyboards, and Acoustic instruments the 200 sounds amazing just be aware to calibrate the unit and not bust into the over Red Metering too hard as to hit the limiting though high enough as to not catch the noise floor. A drawmer Compressor DL244 before hand set gently or the like is also a great way in ironing out certain over the top SNR ratios the unit wasn't dynamically designed to handle.

Great score!
Enjoy
TheLastByte
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