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Why don't more people use Schoeps, DPA etc mics.
Old 21st September 2010
  #1
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Why don't more people use Schoeps, DPA etc mics.

I see heaps of talk about neumanns and all those lovely 1-5k mics... but why is there very little talk about schoeps, DPA and the higher end AKG and Sennheiser mics?

I realise they get used more in broadcast than music but i was recently talking to an audio girl who does opera at the studio, she was accepting of the neumanns we had, begrudgingly accepting of the akg 451s and wouldnt even touch the shures ksm 141s.

Now the shures are sorta no surprise, they aren't the cleanest most transparent mics in the world but i like em.

So how come we don't use schoeps or DPA as overheads/whatever else. I see so many people saying they want a clean transparent mic... and as far as i can find out... they are some of the cleanest available?
Old 21st September 2010
  #2
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KevWind's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I think more here use Schoeps than you think. One reason for more use of other mic's is you can often get 2 SDC of a perfectly exceptable brand for the price of 1 Schoeps.
Example : I use a Schoeps CMC6-MK4 for acoustic guitar but had to sell a pair of KSM 44's to get it.
Old 21st September 2010 | Show parent
  #3
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DarkSky Media's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Anyone who's spent some time recording classical or film sound will likely have an appreciation of Schoeps SDCs, but I agree that they aren't as well established in wider studio music recording. Nevertheless I have four Schoeps SDCs and rate them highly. Perhaps they are a "secret weapon". They are certainly right up there with KM84s and others that get frequent "press" here.
Old 21st September 2010 | Show parent
  #4
Gear Guru
 
NathanEldred's Avatar
 
7 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkSky Media ➑️
They are certainly right up there with KM84s and others that get frequent "press" here.
Definitely up there with 84's, and in some ways better for certain applications because they are slightly cleaner, quieter and have less color (but more colored than DPA in general). I have 3 x 84's and 2 x 86's in the locker FWIW.
Old 21st September 2010 | Show parent
  #5
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2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
m221b's here

I have and use m221b's. Great mic.
Old 21st September 2010 | Show parent
  #6
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robot gigante's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Schoeps are the unequivocal ****!

I use a matched pair of CMC6-MK4's all the time on everything.

I think maybe the price is why they get less mention on gs... but so worth the $$.
Old 21st September 2010 | Show parent
  #7
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Eganmedia's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by NathanEldred ➑️
Definitely up there with 84's, and in some ways better for certain applications because they are slightly cleaner, quieter and have less color (but more colored than DPA in general). I have 3 x 84's and 2 x 86's in the locker FWIW.
I'd say they are definitely up there, doing things that 84s can't. I have three CMC6 bodies with matched cardioid, hypercardioid, omni and MK6 (variable omin, cardioid and fig. 8) caps. I use them *all* the time.

To the OP:
People don't use them as often as other mics you read about here because they aren't physically large and impressive looking. Those who do own them use them a lot. A whole lot. From acoustic guitar to drum overheads, to percussion, piano and upright bass, they are my go-to mics. I scour ebay regularly to find more. People who own DPA mics are just as fanatical. If I had to choose a single mic to record a whole album one track at a time, it would be a Schoeps CMC6 with a MK6 cap. There is nothing you can record that won't sound good with that package, IMHO.
Old 21st September 2010 | Show parent
  #8
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jnorman's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
most of us folks over in the remote forum use schoeps, DPA, senn, and neumann SDCs for the live acoustic music we tend to record. however, the attributes of SDCs that make them excel as a main ORTF pair are not necessarily the charateristics you might want for drum OHs or close-miced acoustic guitar. that said, you can hardly find a better mic than the DPA 4011, senn mkh40, schoeps cmc64, or neumann km140 for nearly any purpose - they are all outstandingly good.
Old 21st September 2010 | Show parent
  #9
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
dpa mics

I love the 4006 on piano ..I've even used it lead vocals . It sounds incredible with john hardy pre's or for gospel leads with a 1073. Will be buying a couple soon
Old 21st September 2010 | Show parent
  #10
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DarkSky Media's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by robot gigante ➑️
...I think maybe the price is why they get less mention on gs... but so worth the $$.
Maybe so, but then folks here are always going on about $10k mics (U47s and the like), and meanwhile, I paid slightly less for my (s/h) pair of Schoeps CMC5/MK21 than I did for my pair of KM84s. So I don't think it's only about price...
Old 21st September 2010 | Show parent
  #11
Gear Guru
 
🎧 15 years
I don't think it is a price thing, people are all over colored stuff that costs a mint, I think it's because the Gearslutz as a group skew towards "color".

What people are doing and using, and what they are posting and talking about on Gearslutz, are not always the same thing.

Schoeps, DPA do get their love, especially on the Remote forum, but my guess is that there is less to talk about when you talk about clean and accurate. It's not that these amazing mics are not popular or not used, they just aren't thread-fodder in the same way.

Just like with preamps, you see plenty of posts about Neve or Fearn and fewer about Grace or Martech.

Maybe it's because people are so busy trying to fight Digititus with color and distortion and saturation, but it seems that in general, clean is not valued around here as much as colored, not lusted after, not boasted of.
Old 21st September 2010 | Show parent
  #12
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syra's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Love my DPA and Schoeps mics! They have reduced my KM84s to only hihat and under snare duties heh
Old 21st September 2010 | Show parent
  #13
Gear Maniac
 
avebr's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Everytime Sennheisers here (MKH800s, MKH40s), Josephsons, MBHOs, Beyerdynamics, Oktavas/OktavaMods...Sometimes Neumanns (U67, U87, KM183/4) and Schoeps - these borrowed. In some extreme situations/track counts: Shure VP88, RΓΈdes NT1b, Crowns PCCs/CM700, CADs M179...

It's firstly a matter of taste (and ta$te), but I believe that there are no 'good' or 'bad' microphones - you must take it in the context of what is in front of the mic (incl. enviroment/room) and what is after the mic. Example:

(same source) VP88 -> mackie vlz pre -> ok-ish/metallic sound, usable
(same source) VP88 -> Focus Red 8 -> great sound, like a 5 x expensive mic


Some like the blondes, some like the redheads, the brunettes,... the... ... ...
aliens?

At the end it's mostly a matter of taste. E gosto nΓ£o se discute!
(And taste is not for disccussion!)

Choose what you like, what is best for you!


all the best,
ave

PS: I started at the studio, went remote, and now do both... That may explain some of my taste...
Old 21st September 2010 | Show parent
  #14
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jnorman's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
ave - inre:
"(same source) VP88 -> mackie vlz pre -> ok-ish/metallic sound, usable
(same source) VP88 -> Focus Red 8 -> great sound, like a 5 x expensive mic"

sorry, but i have a hard time believeing that. can you post clips to demonstrate what you are hearing? i did a direct comparison test one time with mackie VLZ and a HV3 on a piano recording, and two professional musicans were completely unable to hear any difference between them.
Old 21st September 2010 | Show parent
  #15
Gear Maniac
 
avebr's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnorman ➑️
ave - inre:
"(same source) VP88 -> mackie vlz pre -> ok-ish/metallic sound, usable
(same source) VP88 -> Focus Red 8 -> great sound, like a 5 x expensive mic"

sorry, but i have a hard time believeing that. can you post clips to demonstrate what you are hearing? i did a direct comparison test one time with mackie VLZ and a HV3 on a piano recording, and two professional musicans were completely unable to hear any difference between them.
I understand, you don't have to excuse... And I've never really liked the VP88 in piano, althought it could be some usefull inside (later lots of eq and proc).

The time it really 'shined' to me was as an optional main pair (!! those were hard days...) on barroque chamber music. The other time it was a big orchestra recording, again as an optional main pair (higher than usual). Both with Red 8. Both surprisinlgy good, ended being used on the final mix. Sorry but by contract I'm not allowed to disclose tracks or parts of these releases...

I know a lot of musicians that can't hear such differences between mics, gear, verbs - even those more obvious... they hear it 'differently'.

But I can hear such differences. The VP88 is a mic that I used a lot when I had almost nothing, with just lower preamps (bad/ok Mackies and *hi**y clones), and did a lot of recs in many formations and situations, so I knew how it was. The day I plugged it on the Red 8, it just became another mic, specially for more indirect/far from the source miccing.

Maybe it's something impendance related? Maybe it's the Red 8 transformers? I really don't know or care, but it happens. And I know when to use it. But in no way I'm telling you it will do [exactly] the same for other mics....NO!!

Actually I've always 'preached' that a mic 'x' + mic preamp 'y' = a very specific combo of characteristics - it's a 'marriage'. Sometimes the differences are subtle, sometimes not: I don't like that much KM183, but the day I plugged a pair on Millennia's M-2b I simply could not believe it was the same mic...

It's something that comes from praxis, use and observation.

Usually the mic is cheap/mid quality and the mic preamp is highend/extreme. (But also I remember that MKH800 sounded as you expected from MKH800, just plugged on an old 24-8 Mackie. One side compensates the other? Maybe...)

Please note that these are all my personal and empiric experiences, and I don't mean these as nothing more than that.


all the best,
ave
Old 21st September 2010
  #16
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SteelyDani's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
MKH 8040's here

I regularly use Sennheiser 8040 + Millennia HV-3D in X/Y and ORTF as well as ambience mics, for recording acoustic and classical guitars as well as other acoustic instruments. In my opinion they are near perfection for these applications.

I also use them even as OH for any kind of recording. They make an excellent combination with Beyerdinamic MC930, KM 184 and AKG C541B.
Old 21st September 2010
  #17
Gear Guru
 
John Willett's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by TehGuitarist ➑️
I see heaps of talk about neumanns and all those lovely 1-5k mics... but why is there very little talk about schoeps, DPA and the higher end AKG and Sennheiser mics?

I realise they get used more in broadcast than music but i was recently talking to an audio girl who does opera at the studio, she was accepting of the neumanns we had, begrudgingly accepting of the akg 451s and wouldnt even touch the shures ksm 141s.

Now the shures are sorta no surprise, they aren't the cleanest most transparent mics in the world but i like em.

So how come we don't use schoeps or DPA as overheads/whatever else. I see so many people saying they want a clean transparent mic... and as far as i can find out... they are some of the cleanest available?
I think a lot of people do - especially for instruments.

I use the Sennheiser MKH 8000 series, the MKH 20/30/40 series and the Neumann KM-D mostly; but I consider the Schoeps, DPA and MBHO mics pretty well their equal - just slightly different.
Old 21st September 2010 | Show parent
  #18
Gear Guru
 
John Willett's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq ➑️
I don't think it is a price thing, people are all over colored stuff that costs a mint, I think it's because the Gearslutz as a group skew towards "color".
Yup - I think I would agree with that.

Though, personally, I like my microphones to be as neutral and uncoloured as possible.
Old 21st September 2010 | Show parent
  #19
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq ➑️
I don't think it is a price thing, people are all over colored stuff that costs a mint, I think it's because the Gearslutz as a group skew towards "color".
My guess is that the demographic in Gearslutz is swayed almost 80% towards musician's, producer's and lastly engineer's who are predominantly interested in commercial, popular, and rock music .. The skew in the sound palette of most of these people's will be towards "coloured" pieces .. The rarer species seems to be those who can work seamlessly across genres ..
Old 21st September 2010 | Show parent
  #20
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Willett ➑️
I use the Sennheiser MKH 8000 series, the MKH 20/30/40 series.
I used to think 20/30/40 series were brilliant mics ... and still do ... But the MKH 8000 series are .. in a word .. phenomenal .. That's a good collection of mics, John.

Other mics I wouldn't mind owning heh would be :
DPA 4006, 4041, 4011
Schoeps CM6 with a collection of capsules ..
Old 21st September 2010 | Show parent
  #21
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leaper's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
It probably has something to do with styles of music being recorded and the space it's being recorded in.
My Sennheisers and DPA's get a lot of action for classical and jazz stuff in spacious rooms or on location... not so much used for raaaawwwwk in a dry studio environment.
While DPA's, etc, sound true to source, they can sound a bit "clinical" when rock is required. I find myself choosing vintage Gefell SDC in these cases.
MKH Sennheisers seem to be able to straddle both worlds.
Mind you, I'd certainly use a SM69 for any kind of music.. anywhere.
Old 21st September 2010 | Show parent
  #22
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
I used only once Bruel&Kjaer (which if I don't remember wrong is the old name for DPA) because I found them in only one studio I was working in, as far room mics, we put them behind the panels in front of the kit, pointed at the ceiling and they sounded awesome (the Neve console probably helped also).

At first I kinda wasn't convinced to use those but the guy in there made me try them and they really were great. Never used Schoeps, you don't see them often and I noticed them more in live classical recordings than studios
Old 21st September 2010 | Show parent
  #23
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waxx's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
i like colour, but i also like clean and it's true that clean is not popular here. But this is a mainly pop/rock coloured forum. Not many people from more classical/broadcast or folk sides are on this forum. They mainly prefer clean stuff while pop rock and hiphop are more about coloured sounds.

But of course a schoeps is more than on par with the best Neumanns and other coloured mic brands arround. And DPA is also very good (altough a bit sterile compared to schoeps). and there is more...

idem dito with the clean preamp section. I like clean preamps actually more than coloured. But the best flexible setup is to have both availeble i think.
Old 21st September 2010 | Show parent
  #24
Gear Nut
 
tendadaraposa's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I get some daily use with my CMC6 pair with matched MK21's. Love it on Piano, cymbals, acoustic nylon and steel guitars, and many other things.
It is definiltely a powerful little tool!thumbsup
Old 21st September 2010 | Show parent
  #25
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
they are not talked about here so often because

- GS is mostly hobby engineers and musicians. When they buy expensive stuff, it's mostly the over-hyped flavour of the month down here. There are not so many people (who are retailers themselves) shamelessly pimping Schoeps et al as 'blowing them away', 'night and day' etc.

- they are expensive but not vintage.


That being said, I own CMC6 with MK41 and use them all the time. Fabulous mics.
Old 21st September 2010 | Show parent
  #26
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DarkSky Media's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by kosmokrator ➑️
- they are expensive but not vintage.
Umm... The old ones are vintage! Two of my Schoeps mics definitely qualify.
Old 21st September 2010 | Show parent
  #27
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
i ran into them in studios in europe quite a bit, but not so much here in the us.

btw, i use my mkh-40's all the time for drum overheads- lovely imaging, huge amount of gain and headroom, etc. also great on acoustic instruments, esp. in x-y configuration. we had them at donald fagen's studio awhile back(at least 10 years ago) and fagan's engineer decided the mkh40 was his favorite mic on the bass amp(placed dead center as i remember).
Old 21st September 2010 | Show parent
  #28
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retinal ➑️
.. I used only once Bruel & Kajer ..
The first time I ever heard a pair of Bruel Kajers was for an orchestral recording .. I had to pick my jaw up off the floor .. because that's where it was .. heh

They are rarely seen though as strictly speaking, they are a test and measurement mic ..
Old 21st September 2010 | Show parent
  #29
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lowswing's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
the people that use schoeps and dpa are busy recording and not writing in forums heh
Love my Schoeps, love my neumanns too
Old 21st September 2010 | Show parent
  #30
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by peter_mavro ➑️
I ran into them in studios in europe quite a bit, but not so much here in the us.
Peter,

strangely enough, Schoeps mics seem to be immensely popular with the "tapers" crowd in The US .. You know, all those crews of guys who go to festivals and open-air shows (particularly Phish and The Grateful Dead) ..

I was mixing FOH for a band at a festival in Michigan, and these crews of guys all in their 30-40's start setting up these rigs right in front of "FOH Land" .. I was getting a bit shirty about it when someone explained to me that it's a fairly regular occurrence .. You learn a new thing every day

Quote:
Originally Posted by lowswing ➑️
the people that use schoeps and dpa are busy recording and not writing in forums heh
Love my Schoeps, love my neumanns too
And you are of-course correct .. At the moment I only own Neumann's .. When I own some Schoep's .. I will stop spending spare time writing in forums heh

Regards RAy
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