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km 84 vs mike joly 012 oktava
Old 11th June 2010
  #1
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
km 84 vs mike joly 012 oktava

hey,

has anyone actually compared these two mics. on his website joly claims that his mod makes the oktava sound as good as the km 84. is this true?

the reason i am asking is that i have an oktava that has been sitting here unused for years. i normally prefer my 451 or at 4041 to for acc gtrs but am looking for something different but on the same level of quality.

if the joly mod is that good then i will do it...otherwise i will spring for a km 84 at some point.

what do you guys think?

thanks,

ej
Old 11th June 2010
  #2
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Piedpiper's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Put in a search. You'll find at least two threads that contain comparison clips and tons of discussion about this.
Old 11th June 2010 | Show parent
  #3
Baz
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Baz's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I'm going to hopefully try them for myself in the next 10 days. the owner of the studio I'm in just bought a pair after hearing the blind test.We've used my 84 here in the past so I'm very interested to hear them myself.
Old 12th June 2010
  #4
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ejsongs ➑️
hey,

has anyone actually compared these two mics. on his website joly claims that his mod makes the oktava sound as good as the km 84. is this true?

the reason i am asking is that i have an oktava that has been sitting here unused for years. i normally prefer my 451 or at 4041 to for acc gtrs but am looking for something different but on the same level of quality.

if the joly mod is that good then i will do it...otherwise i will spring for a km 84 at some point.

what do you guys think?

thanks,

ej
ej - Yes, I have. I did those tests for MJ. Have you listened to them? The mod is under a hundred bucks, and any decent 84 is at least $1200 so there's really not much to loose if you already own the mic. Have you used an 84? There's always the possibility you might not like them.....

The modded 012 was indistinguishable from an 84 for me that day on 3 different ac guitars, 3 different pieces of music. Even the guitarist could not tell the difference.

That said, other days I used them, they didn't seem as close. The 012's seemed more "modern" for lack of a better term. A little more high end, and bigger on the bottom.

I view them as slightly different colors on the palatte. If you want ONLY a KM84 and that is the ONLY thing that will work for you, save for an 84. If you want a mic that is very, very similar, but a little different that is new and costs 1/4 the price, then get the MJ012. It's absolutely the closest in production mic I've ever heard to a KM84. Certainly closer than a 184.

This may help you decide whether or not you really need a KM84 - More Mic Madness - cHapTeR 4 - What's up with KM84's? Lots of 84 vs 184 vs modded 184 vs 012 clips there.

Cheers,


bp
Old 12th June 2010 | Show parent
  #5
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
dr. bill:

thanks for posting. yes i have used the km 84 but it was years ago but i do remember that i liked them. usually i am at the mercy of what ever mic the engineer chooses. these days since i am recording most of my gtrs myself at my spot so am slowly building a mic locker for different colors.

that being said i've found that the 451 and 4041 record what i do better than my stock oktava or marshall mics... and my clients have been very happy...(even got a thumbs up for dave pensado). if the mod can up the quality level that of the 451 and 4041 it is worth it to me. i'm not opposed to spending $1200 for the km 84 but i'd rather but another pre for that price.

i will try it out and see.

thanks,

ej
Old 12th June 2010 | Show parent
  #6
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Watersound's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I know this doesn't answer your question per se, but I had Michael do the Rode NT1 mod for me and it turned that mic into a monster. His work is stellar! If you don't use the mic anyway, send it to him- for the small amount of $$ you will get a killer mic- and the MK012 in pretty darn good to begin with imo.

John
Old 12th June 2010 | Show parent
  #7
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ejsongs ➑️
i will try it out and see.
thumbsup

I don't think you'll be dissapointed. I've got 3 KM84's and after trying out the MJ012's I immediately ordered a pair. REALLY love them with the omni caps. Haven't had too many opportunities to use them with the card caps other than the clips you heard. Good luck\.
Old 12th June 2010 | Show parent
  #8
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by GlenR ➑️
You guys didn't hear a difference? Can't believe it!
Glenn - I don't generally disagree with you - the KM84 is definately a special mic. But I can place the 012 so that it DOES sound virtually identical to my KM84's. What we are referring to are some clips that I posted a few weeks ago comparing the 012 to the KM84.

So......here they are. The clips switch back and forth 13-14 times per clip. Let us know where YOU think they switch back and forth. (Switching back and forth between KM84 and MJ 012.)

Comparison 1 (Steel) :
Martin 00018 KM84/012 Intercuts

Comparison 2 (Nylon) :
Nylon String KM84/012 Intercuts

Comparison 3 (High Strung) :
High Strung KM84/012 Intercuts



I can't reliably here the switches back and forth. Neither could the guitarist. How about you??? heh heh




bp
Old 12th June 2010 | Show parent
  #9
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by GlenR ➑️
Thanks, but I never listen to such shoot outs because I don't know you nor do I know your room or recording chain.
Why not listen and comment though. Let us know if you hear a huge difference on these clips. The mics speak for themselves. Either they sound similar or not. It's pretty simple. Not trying to say they are identical, just similar.

The signal path was"

KM84/MJ012, mogami, API 512B's, Digi192's to PTHD 24b/44.1k. The files are 16b. Pretty standard stuff. Off the 12th fret, angled ever so slightly back towards the body of the gtr. Player moves around of course. All 3 clips were done on the same date, but I didn't take any extraordinary care to make sure he didn't move between gtr changes / takes. And still, the similarity between the mics is undeniable. Check it out.

bp
Old 12th June 2010 | Show parent
  #10
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
after listening to the clips as much as i hate to admit it i much prefer the km 84 to the 012. as pointed out earlier the 84's have that vintage thing happening. the 184 wasn't bad either but if i were to spend $850 for a 184 i might as well spring for an original 84 even though it is more money.

i will do the mod to the 012 however...it can't hurt

ej
Old 12th June 2010
  #11
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Michael_Joly's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ejsongs ➑️
...on his website joly claims that his mod makes the oktava sound as good as the km 84... is this true?
We should nip this in the bud. What I say on my site is this:

"In the clip above, Grammy-winning engineer Bill Pearson cuts back and forth between the legendary KM 84 and my mod'd MK-012. There are thirteen edits in this clip. The mics are so similar the clip sounds like it was recorded with one mic only!"

So you see, I specifically refer to that performance, of that guitar, with that player, recorded by that engineer, in that room, on that day, with those edits. YMMV, as the famous gear pimp for hire used to say.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ejsongs ➑️
after listening to the clips as much as i hate to admit it i much prefer the km 84 to the 012...
When Dr. Bill first released his 84 / 012 intercut recording in the form of an unidentified sequence most folks could not correctly identify half the edit points - let alone identify which mic was which. It took analyzing the spectral content of the clip for two listeners in that contest to look for the portions of the recording that have slightly greater HF content - the telltale sign of the '012.

But thanks in advance for your vote of confidence to invest in a mod for your '012.

re: Contest winners - now that we've moved and settled in I'll be able to schedule a time to prepare the mics for the contest winners.
Old 12th June 2010 | Show parent
  #12
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
wow!

now that we have the man himself on board. how would you describe the differences between your modded 603 and your modded 012. both claim to be after the km 84 sound. i am asking because i have both and so now the question is which one do i send you to mod?

ej
Old 12th June 2010 | Show parent
  #13
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Michael_Joly's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Short answer first - the Premium Electronics mod'd '012 is similar to the KM 84 while the "Ultimate SDC Mod" (for the 603 and other popular 22mm mics) is closer the KM 184.

Long answer - folks can download audio from the links above. listen for themselves and come to their own conclusion.

I hear them as being complimentary mics - the mod'd '012 is close to flat while the "Ultimate SDC mod" is a touch brighter at 8kHz and certainly airier at 16kHz than the '012.

As you own both mics I can say that mod'ing the '012 is going to be a less expensive propostion. Its an $89, electronics-only mod. But the 603 etc requires much more extensive work ($229) - electronics modification, capsule housing mods and body vent modification - to become a top shelf mic. But given the low entry cost of these mics - $49 for the Nady CM-90, CAD GXL-1200 or Apex 180 they are still an excellent value when mod'd.

If a person doesn't own either mic, the total cost of a new, mod'd pair of '012 or 603-style mics is about the same so the decision can be based on the sound one is going for.
Old 29th July 2010 | Show parent
  #14
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
I'm looking at getting a pair of mk012's. I'll keep this thread in mind for Mr Joly's mod.
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