The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
Which AC Cable?
Old 18th November 2009 | Show parent
  #31
Lives for gear
 
GYMusic's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumblesound ➡️
Is that a brand name?
And just remember I have the © and patent on "Holy Water" and "Fairy Dust" plugins - © 2009 GYMusic.
Old 18th November 2009 | Show parent
  #32
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleaman ➡️
How can that work? There is only 1 AC plug in per monitor.
It was a mono signal being sent to two monitors. Same brand of monitor placed up right side by side.
Old 18th November 2009 | Show parent
  #33
Lives for gear
 
Fleaman's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattski ➡️
Yeah, that is true it wasn't ABX. But I went in expecting to hear no difference. To me logically speaking how is AC current going to affect an audible signal.
Placebo still applies. You can't convince yourself to 'not' hear a difference, then still 'try' to hear a difference. Unless it was double blind/ABX, Placebo effect allows that a difference will be heard. Only doing a double blind/ABX will eliminate (prove) that there really was a difference.
Old 18th November 2009 | Show parent
  #34
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleaman ➡️
Placebo still applies. You can't convince yourself to 'not' hear a difference, then still 'try' to hear a difference. Unless it was double blind/ABX, Placebo effect allows that a difference will be heard. Only doing a double blind/ABX will eliminate (prove) that there really was a difference.
Hmmm... Didn't know that.
Old 18th November 2009 | Show parent
  #35
teo
Lives for gear
 
teo's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Are we really going to go through this??? AGAIN???

dfegad
Old 18th November 2009 | Show parent
  #36
Lives for gear
 
Fleaman's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattski ➡️
It was a mono signal being sent to two monitors. Same brand of monitor placed up right side by side.
> There can be differences in monitors
> We certainly hear different in each ear...a visit to an audiologist and a test will show it (for everyone)..
> What they needed to do was swap the cables between each monitor (including the line level cable), repeat the test. Then swap monitor sides, repeat the test, etc....all double blind!
Old 18th November 2009 | Show parent
  #37
Lives for gear
 
James Lehmann's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by teo ➡️
Are we really going to go through this??? AGAIN???
Quite!

To anyone who thinks they can bring something new to this debate please do a search and read all 18-pages of this classic Gearslutz thread (and a number of others like it) before posting on the subject of AC Cables.
Old 18th November 2009 | Show parent
  #38
Lives for gear
 
Fleaman's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattski ➡️
Yup. I feel you on that. I'm curious to get my hands on one and open that sucker up to see if it really does anything. I wouldn't be surprised if when opened I find nothing but a timer and a LED. LOL...
Why so curious?

There's thousands/millions of these type of things out there, but the end result is the same.

Save your curiosity for something more interesting.
Old 18th November 2009 | Show parent
  #39
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleaman ➡️
Why so curious?

There's thousands/millions of these type of things out there, but the end result is the same.

Save your curiosity for something more interesting.
Just read the link you posted. Very very interesting.
Old 20th November 2009 | Show parent
  #40
Lives for gear
 
brianroth's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by brianroth ➡️
Voodoo BS imho

Bri
I should have clarified my quick remark! (Hmmmmm...maybe I SHOULD trademark Voodoo BS and steal money....LOL!).

I have encountered far too many Voodoo BS items being sold to unsuspecting Orthodontists, etc. who had deep pockets and decided to pursue some sort of "audio Nirvana" with their home sound systems.

The snake-oil salesmen sell those unsuspecting souls things like Teflon stand-offs to "move the speaker wiring away from the effects of the floor/concrete slab" and other dubious rip-offs. I even ran across one company selling some sort of wooden KNOBS for 100's of dollars, with the claim that merely changing the KNOBS on the gear will improve the sound!

Into that mix comes Voodoo BS power cords. Dozens or hundreds of dollars for an AC Mains cable????

Indeed, I am a BIG fan of well designed, well installed AC Mains wiring, utilizing high quality components! But let's analyze:

1. Replace the so-called crappy AC Mains cable from the gear to the wall with a $200 cable (built with oxygen-free copper wire that has been blessed by virgins as they dance under the full moon <g>). Ooops...that cable plugs into a wall receptacle chosen by the original electrical contractor, and cost 58 cents.

2. Upgrade the wall receptacle with another $200 purchase, and this time the virgins actually spit onto the component <g>. Ooops....the receptacle is connected into either a piece of "Romex" or onto individual runs of THHN, etc. Replace the wiring inside of the walls with some "unknown to me...but it certainly will require virgins/full moon"!. Ooops....that gold plated 12 gauge wire now has to connect to a breaker/fuse panel, and it will likely be spliced "in line" with "wire nuts".

3. Replace the in-line wire nuts with some sort of cyrogenically (sp?) treated gold plated splicing component, and I REFUSE to speculate what the virgins did. Ooops...now that branch line has to connect into the breaker/fuse box.

4. My breaker panel was made by GE; Square-D is another good brand (and I WILL say that lesser brands are bad news, but for other reasons...). OK now, we have to find $200 breakers to replace the GE/Square-D...and I dunno if virgins even know what a circuit breaker is. Assuming they do...Ooops....now the wiring to the electric meter, and the meter itself, are suspect.

5. Assuming the virgins are still with us, I can go on and on...wiring from the meter, step-down transformer sitting on a concrete pad in my backyard (perhaps it should have oxygen-free copper wiring with teflon insulation, specially annealed nickle core, with everything sitting on ceramic spikes to avoid the effects of the clay-laden soil).

6. The electric company uses aluminum wire from the step-down xfmr. in my yard....that has to be upgraded all the way to the substation located on the edge of my neighborhood...as well as the huge transformers at the substation...and the (ALUMINUM) 130 KV lines going back to the natural gas-fired power plant, and every piece of switching gear along the way.

Enough of this insanity! I will suggest this, however:


1. Cabling from gear to the wall receptacle: 16 Gauge or larger (and MUCH larger for power amps, big recording desk power supplies, etc).

2. When possible, re-strap the gear for "balanced" 240VAC. Two birds hit there at once: 1/2 the current (Ampere) consumption as well as reducing probs from imbalanced/noisy Neutrals.

3. Replace the crappy 59 cent wall receptacles with "Hospital Grade" devices...or over-sized "Twist-Locks" (ie, 30A devices).

4. Install oversized "home run" wiring from the receptacles to the breaker box (no splices/"wire nuts"). IOW, instead of "Code" 12 Gauge on a 20A circuit, install 10 or 8 Gauge.

5. Regularly loosen/re-tighten every screw involved in the wiring system. NOTE!!! Disable/disconnect the required AC Mains circuits BEFORE messing with them!!!!!

My Two Cents.....

Bri
Old 20th November 2009 | Show parent
  #41
Gear Guru
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleaman ➡️
> There can be differences in monitors
> We certainly hear different in each ear...a visit to an audiologist and a test will show it (for everyone)..
> What they needed to do was swap the cables between each monitor (including the line level cable), repeat the test. Then swap monitor sides, repeat the test, etc....all double blind!
Exactly. Two monitors can not occupy the same physical space. A few inches in placement makes way more difference than any AC cable!
Old 24th November 2009 | Show parent
  #42
Lives for gear
 
brianroth's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Damn! I was hoping for someone to "show me the errors of my ways"!

<g>

Bri
Old 24th November 2009 | Show parent
  #43
teo
Lives for gear
 
teo's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleaman ➡️
No difference.

ABX double blind AC cable test---no one guessed better than chance> Secrets Feature Article

You'll have better luck keeping all your contacts clean/maintained with DeoxIT.
I missed the link before.
Really funny!
So this guy says that ABX tests are not good to discern one AC cable from the other, but there are definitely some differences, because he CAN hear them when he can see what cable is plugged in. Only he cannot do it on a blind ABX test because he isn't relaxed enough!

Again: dfegad
Old 24th November 2009 | Show parent
  #44
Lives for snowflakes
 
12ax7's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by teo ➡️
I missed the link before.
Really funny!
So this guy says that ABX tests are not good to discern one AC cable from the other, but there are definitely some differences, because he CAN hear them when he can see what cable is plugged in. Only he cannot do it on a blind ABX test because he isn't relaxed enough!

Again: dfegad
Yes, I too can hear the difference between two identical sounds:

The first one always sounds earlier than the second!

Old 24th November 2009 | Show parent
  #45
Lives for gear
 
brianroth's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12ax7 ➡️
Yes, I too can hear the difference between two identical sounds:

The first one always sounds earlier than the second!

Hmmm and lol

Bri
Old 25th November 2009 | Show parent
  #46
Lives for gear
 
latestflavor's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Can you tell if you like the sound of coal fired electricity versus nuclear generation, or just to throw a curve ball how about a natural gas cogen facility? Boutique electric sounds from hydroelectric, not the homemade crap from a dam, but from natural water sources such as naigara falls or natural ocean waves is really the holy grail. I'm just experimenting with solar and wind power, it has a light and airy feel to it. Hearing electricity is like tasting spices, they're all unique. I'm currently trying to channel sun spots and compare that to cold fusion but it might take a little bit longer, so stay tuned. Harnessing the soul of the universe isn't as easy as it sounds!!

Personally, i find coal electricity too dirty for my sound. Nuclear is a tad too cold, natural gas is really best to my ears as far as "of the shelf" power generation goes.

As far as AC cables go, tell me, what's wiring inside your walls? Romex, BX, something else? With or without conduit? Shielding? How about your breakers, the grounding? Now tell me, how is the "quality" of wire for the many, if not hundreds of miles from your house to the generating station (or wherever in the grid it comes from)? In fact, how is the quality of the grid of your transmission provider?

Now, do you really think the last .0000002% of length from your outlet to your audio equipment will be a game changer?

In short, are you fvcking kidding me?
Old 25th November 2009 | Show parent
  #47
Registered User
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by latestflavor ➡️
In short, are you fvcking kidding me?
Amen!
Old 25th November 2009 | Show parent
  #48
Lives for gear
 
brianroth's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
OK Ok...."preaching to the choir....."

Bri
Old 25th November 2009 | Show parent
  #49
Lives for gear
 
Fleaman's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by latestflavor ➡️
Now tell me, how is the "quality" of wire for the many, if not hundreds of miles from your house to the generating station (or wherever in the grid it comes from)?
Well, it's aluminum wire.

They're even using aluminum wire in buildings now.

Guess that would be a shock (pun!) to high-end AC cable fanboys.
Old 25th November 2009 | Show parent
  #50
Lives for snowflakes
 
12ax7's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by latestflavor ➡️
Can you tell if you like the sound of coal fired electricity versus nuclear generation
<snip>
Oh, yes!

Coal DEFINITELY sounds "warmer"!

...But its hard to decide, because there ARE certain records which benefit from that "nuclear" sound!

If you believe that, go to my website:

BrooklynBridgeForSale.com
Old 25th November 2009 | Show parent
  #51
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
Great read on the Chain of power getting to your Gear, Spending more than $10.00 on a 2 meter 12 Ga. AC cable is a waste of money (IMHO).

I did want to point out that a Load that draws ,Let's say 1500 Watts, will still draw 1500 watts regardless of the Voltage-110V, 220 V, 440 V, or 880 V and will still cost the same amount of money to operate.

The wire size does get smaller as the voltage goes up, Provided it is carrying less Amperage. (Amperage determines wire size)

The cost savings is realized in smaller conduit and wire gauge using the higher Voltage(s) to provide the same wattage.

The second point (Opinion) I would make is that instead of increasing the wire size (From 12 Ga. up to 10 Ga.., I would run a new "Sub Panel" to the area the Studio is to be located in, Go up 1 or 2 wire sizes for the sub panel, Then all your runs will be Short.

It is very difficult to properly connect a 20 Amp. Receptacle to #8 wire.

One last Point: Never, Never use Aluminum Wire In your House or Studio (In the walls or anywhere else if you can help it) It has caused many fires and has been out-lawed in LA and Ventura Counties for the past 25 years for Residential use. ( Yes I know the Utility Companies use it over-head and under-ground).

John
Old 25th November 2009 | Show parent
  #52
Lives for gear
 
cheu78's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Replying to the thread question:
a shielded power cord for me, please! Something like 5$.. I do not need more.
:-)

just my 0.02$,

Bests,

Cheu
Old 25th November 2009
  #53
Gear Guru
 
John Willett's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattski ➡️
So I'm thinking about purchasing quality AC cables. PS Audio, Analysis Pro, Evidence Audio and Essential Sound Products are some of the companies that I've heard of who make good AC cables.

But which company and why? Who's design makes for the most optimal current flow? Are the lower high end AC cables good enough that it will make a big enough difference? $100 - $800 is a big jump just for AC cables. And most importantly, which one sounds best?

Thanks...
There's only one worth having - THIS ONE. heh

It's only £3,350.00 heh
Old 25th November 2009 | Show parent
  #54
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleaman ➡️
Placebo effect.
You, you I like.

I will personally put up my ENTIRE RECORDING STUDIO and I will pay the lease for the next year if ANYONE- and I mean ANYONE- can blind test this above 70%. The only catch is I get to put a gun to your head and if you are wrong BANG!

All you need to get is 7 of 10 and thats REASONABLE. BANG.

If I asked you to hear the difference 7 of 10 times between most other things you are going to spend thousands improving, it would be no problem.

High grade cables are SOLELY made so, in conversation, you can say " and I spent 3 grand on the best cables possible". Thats about the only use you will get out of them.
Old 25th November 2009 | Show parent
  #55
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by latestflavor ➡️
Can you tell if you like the sound of coal fired electricity versus nuclear generation?
The funny thing about that is its the PERFECT ANALOGY for digital and analog audio...

And yes, coal is warmer... But you get a lot more done in less time with nuclear!
Old 26th November 2009 | Show parent
  #56
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
Quote: "There's only one worth having - THIS ONE.

It's only £3,350.00 "
__
Sorry John, The above cable is only 3 feet long, if you want a 6 foot cable expect to pay
7,000 Pounds or $14,000.00 Dollars. And here I thought Monster Cable was over priced by at least 90% heh

John
Old 27th November 2009 | Show parent
  #57
Lives for gear
 
brianroth's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Dammit....when someone can prove an advantage, I am OK....but all I see is Voodoo Crap with Dancing Virgins Dancing Naked Under a Full Moon....

Bri (hmmm naked virgins...I GOTTA peek lol)
📝 Reply

Similar Threads

Thread / Thread Starter Replies / Views Last Post
replies: 609 views: 50833
Avatar for psycho_monkey
psycho_monkey 7th February 2012
replies: 9 views: 3066
Avatar for Robo
Robo 15th December 2020
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearspace Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…

Forum Jump
Forum Jump