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Waves V-Comp vs. Hardware Neve 2254?
Old 16th November 2009
  #1
Lives for gear
 
MrVelvet's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Waves V-Comp vs. Hardware Neve 2254?

Anybody did an actual comparison? I did a search but couldn't find a thread on this.

I'm just in the process of going OTB for mixing and would be interested to hear how much benefit a "real" 2254 would be over the plug-in. Love the plug-in, but have found that hardware can help tracks which were recorded not so well, whereas with software it can be the other way round - software works mostly great on tracks which already sound flawless.

Thanks!
Old 4th August 2010
  #2
Registered User
 
🎧 10 years
Anybody? I'm interested in this as well.
Old 4th August 2010 | Show parent
  #3
Registered User
 
🎧 15 years
I guess it is also interesting to compare Stereo and Linked versions. I think the V-Comp plugin is one of the best plugins in my collection and I often use plugins sort of like trial ware: I then buy the hardware later if I had a good impression from the plugin...
Old 4th August 2010 | Show parent
  #4
Registered User
 
🎧 10 years
if had used the plugin trial ware api2500 i would never have bought the real thing, they are not even similar in sound, putting a nice picture of hardware on a plugin tends to make them sound better.
Old 4th August 2010 | Show parent
  #5
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
telling from every waves plugin i compared to the original, i would not expect it to sound remotely close. it might be still very usefull. but it wont be able to simulate those transformers. only attack and release times. but like you said in your post...if its well recorded its not that important. knowing you work so far i guess you'll do just fine without one :-)
Old 5th August 2010 | Show parent
  #6
Lives for gear
 
syra's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Its funny you posted this question. From all the waves plugs, this one sounds the most distant from the hardware to me. ... ok maybe the Pye too. Don't get me wrong, I think its quite usable... its just that in more than one occasion, after tweaking it for a while and not getting the results I wanted, patching in the hardware and turning one knob I was like "Bingo! ...that's what I was trying to achieve ITB for the last 10 minutes...".

Old 5th August 2010 | Show parent
  #7
Lives for gear
 
Tube World's Avatar
 
5 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
I don't know if it sounds the same, but the Wave V Series plug ins have a pleasant color to them that makes my mixes sound better. I prefer the V Series if I want some nice color and the Ren Bundle for a thicker sound added to the signal. Love them both.
Old 6th August 2010 | Show parent
  #8
Lives for gear
 
barryjohns's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
No idea, but the V series plugs are way!!!!!!!! UnderRated!!!!!!!!!

Smooth as silk!
Old 6th August 2010 | Show parent
  #9
Registered User
 
🎧 10 years
Good to hear from some people on this, Im definitely in the "no idea" catagory. I think that waves SSL plugs are pretty on, but aside from that I really don't know how accurate most of their emulations are, beside from the 1176 (CLA-76), which isnt too far off IMO. Regardless, I do find the v series pretty useful. But, perhaps waves just slaps on the names of well known and coveted units to sell plug ins...???
Old 6th August 2010 | Show parent
  #10
Registered User
 
46 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by OceanMan ➑️
Good to hear from some people on this, Im definitely in the "no idea" catagory. I think that waves SSL plugs are pretty on, but aside from that I really don't know how accurate most of their emulations are, beside from the 1176 (CLA-76), which isnt too far off IMO. Regardless, I do find the v series pretty useful. But, perhaps waves just slaps on the names of well known and coveted units to sell plug ins...???
No Waves could not do that. With companies like UAD who also makes emulating software, they have to only release the best products they can. I assume you did not see the Eddie Kramer video where he A/B between analog and Waves Plug in's. On the video they sound the same, but I have yet to hear software that sounds exactly the same. However they are good enough to use in conjunction with hardware gear.
Old 6th August 2010 | Show parent
  #11
11413
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Bucci ➑️
No Waves could not do that. With companies like UAD who also makes emulating software, they have to only release the best products they can. I assume you did not see the Eddie Kramer video where he A/B between analog and Waves Plug in's. On the video they sound the same, but I have yet to hear software that sounds exactly the same. However they are good enough to use in conjunction with hardware gear.
waves shill glenn bucci has spoken.... he's as bad as kittonian with SSL X-racks

you on the payroll or what glenn?
Old 6th August 2010 | Show parent
  #12
Registered User
 
🎧 15 years
There should be much more comparison video's and audio examples online. It seems we are still in the text age
Old 6th August 2010 | Show parent
  #13
Registered User
 
46 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by 11413 ➑️
waves shill glenn bucci has spoken.... he's as bad as kittonian with SSL X-racks

you on the payroll or what glenn?
I have no affiliation with Waves. Don't know why you thought I might. tutt Just working hard in my studio on my 2nd CD.
FYI, I use UAD and the built in plug ins in Cubase and Samplitude just as much as the Waves stuff. I still prefer using Class A gear from company's such as Rupert Neve, and Manley during the mixing stage on the inserts in Cubase.

Peace
Old 6th August 2010 | Show parent
  #14
Lives for gear
 
Tube World's Avatar
 
5 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkyGoldstein ➑️
There should be much more comparison video's and audio examples online. It seems we are still in the text age
I agree with you. Audio Technica has some nice samples of their mic's on their web page. Other places like Vintage King shows examples of EQ's and compressors on their web site which I found helpful.

By the way I work for Waves (Not really) . I get $1,000 from them for every positive comment I say on the forums. Do you guys really believe company's pay people to troll forums to praise their gear?? Maybe I am naive on this topic, but what a waste of time. Anyway, let's stick to the topic here.
Old 6th August 2010 | Show parent
  #15
Registered User
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkyGoldstein ➑️
There should be much more comparison video's and audio examples online. It seems we are still in the text age
heh Exactly what I think all the time! It should be a matter of course to put out 24 bit hardware vs plugin audio files on the UA or WAVES homepage. If they say this is a digital version of a Neve, Urei, SSL or what ever, they have to prove it. But no, we have to spend thousands of $ to do it ourselves, damnit.
Old 6th August 2010 | Show parent
  #16
11413
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Bucci ➑️
I have no affiliation with Waves. Don't know why you thought I might. tutt Just working hard in my studio on my 2nd CD.
FYI, I use UAD and the built in plug ins in Cubase and Samplitude just as much as the Waves stuff. I still prefer using Class A gear from company's such as Rupert Neve, and Manley during the mixing stage on the inserts in Cubase.

Peace
more salesman talk.. that's it glenn, diversify your portfolio
Old 6th August 2010 | Show parent
  #17
Lives for gear
 
DarkSky Media's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by 11413 ➑️
more salesman talk.. that's it glenn, diversify your portfolio
The guy is an enthusiast!! But you have to admit, he's come to the right place!
Old 7th August 2010 | Show parent
  #18
Lives for gear
 
Stitch333's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
any plug vs any hardware
0 : 1
Old 7th August 2010 | Show parent
  #19
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
own a mint neve 2254e , moded release and new filter caps...
I wish the V sounded the same I would have $760,000.00 worth of neve compressors. the plug in sounds about 0.0000000001 % close to the real thing.
Old 7th August 2010 | Show parent
  #20
Lives for gear
 
tobymusic's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alphablast ➑️
own a mint neve 2254e , moded release and new filter caps...
I wish the V sounded the same I would have $760,000.00 worth of neve compressors. the plug in sounds about 0.0000000001 % close to the real thing.
You mean: to YOUR EARS, plug-in does not sound like your MODED 2254e WITH NEW FILTER CAPS! Are you kidding??

Strange discussion.
Old 7th August 2010 | Show parent
  #21
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
TM ? seriously do think a Vcomp sounds like a hardware neve 2254e ? are you kidding? nothing strange about it....
Old 7th August 2010 | Show parent
  #22
Lives for gear
 
barryjohns's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Who in here can really afford 32 channels of the hardware?

See, now go buy and use the plugin. It may or may not be spot on, but I can promise that it sounds very good regardless.
Old 7th August 2010 | Show parent
  #23
Gear Addict
 
David_Kessler's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Who in here uses 32 channels of compression on a track?
Old 8th August 2010 | Show parent
  #24
Gear Nut
 
🎧 15 years
in my experience one great channel of analog compression is worth much more than a thousand channels of plugins.
since getting my first great hardware comp i basically stopped using plugin comps because i felt the difference was so extreme.
Old 8th August 2010 | Show parent
  #25
Registered User
 
5 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
V-Comp is rubbery sounding
2254 is everything you imagine a comp should be
V-Comp is not

but a real 2254 is big money. I think AMS still makes a reissue?
not sure what the reissue sounds like it's layed out different than the real one
Old 8th August 2010 | Show parent
  #26
Registered User
 
Continental's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stitch333 ➑️
any plug vs any hardware
0 : 1
true
Old 8th August 2010 | Show parent
  #27
Deleted User
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by David_Kessler ➑️
Who in here uses 32 channels of compression on a track?


Granted, they aren't all the same box, but I'll use that many comps for a full production without question.

I thank god every day that someone decided it would be a good idea to put compressors on every channel on large desks...
Old 8th August 2010 | Show parent
  #28
Lives for gear
 
tobymusic's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alphablast ➑️
TM ? seriously do think a Vcomp sounds like a hardware neve 2254e ? are you kidding? nothing strange about it....
What I meant is that:
1. vintage equipment varies so much, even from one hardware unit to the next
2. your 2254 has been modified
3. so far no software successfully modeled the effect input and output transformers have on the spectrum of the hardware and other stray effects. But there are many software models that faithfully recreate the way the hardware "reacts" to a signal. Does this make the software useless??

So making a categorical claim like "the V-Comp does not sound like a 2254" is simply misleading as we have no idea how experienced you are in using equipment, what converters you use, what termination you use to go in and out of your hardware, at what level you're using your equipment and whether your modified 2254 still sounds anything like a 2254 in original condition sounded like. Nor do we know how the hardware sounded that Waves used as their model for the V-Comp.

I don't mean to attack you personally, I just would prefer if people would be more careful about their claims - and explain for instance that their hardware sounds very different to the software in this or that way.

There is just so much uneducated discussion going on at gearslutz, it sometimes drives me mad. I personally like the V-Comp software, it's a very very useful tool in my arsenal. Just take a look at the claim from "Stitch333" - how useful is that?

Sorry to vent, but i believe stuff like this drives qualified people away from gearslutz.
Old 8th August 2010 | Show parent
  #29
Lives for gear
 
Stitch333's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by tobymusic ➑️
Just take a look at the claim from "Stitch333" - how useful is that?
There isn't much claim when I've put in the years (decades at this point) to develop an informed opinion. It is just my opinion, of course.

This thread, in the grand gearslutz style, is a "vs" thread.
So I framed my answer as such. I think qualified people take Gearslutz for exactly what it is.
A lot of fun debate with a small measure of opinion/experience generated information.

On your abstracted train of thought: Are plugins useful and semi-ok sounding if properly twiddled?
Sho! Never said they twernt.
(the use of the emoticon should reinforce the point of reference)

edit: if Alphablast hadn't taken down the drum samples he had posted (above deleted post),
it would have served to show just how bad the plug sounds next to the original.
I heard them and the difference was noticeable even on my laptop speakers.
Old 8th August 2010 | Show parent
  #30
Kush Audio
 
u b k's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by David_Kessler ➑️
Who in here uses 32 channels of compression on a track?


If you count the comps used when tracking, I'm easily past 32, and this is on simple productions that have maybe 12 tracks for instruments and 6 or 8 vocals.

And does tape count? Because that's how I use it, as a leveler.


Gregory Scott - ubk
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