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How many sub-groups do you typically use?
Old 8th May 2003
  #1
Lives for gear
 
subspace's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
How many sub-groups do you typically use?

Speaking in large format analog mix terms, how many sub-groups do you end up using on a mix? I'm wondering about the usefulness of 24-32 busses when most folks are no longer using subs for track assignment. Do they get used up at mix time?
Along the same lines, do you return sub-groups to channel inputs so they can be assigned to a second group? I'm thinking along the lines of multiple drum busses being combined to a stereo drum sub-master.
I've got an 8 bus console with extra sub-master modules installed for use as returns, and I'll be adding the wiring to use them as additional busses. Just looking for input on how far to take it for mixing purposes... TIA
Old 8th May 2003
  #2
jon
Capitol Studios Paris
 
jon's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I typically use from 12 to 24 or more different sends/groups/subgroups for a typical larger music mix. The returns are routed to either the large or small faders...which can be automated, EQed, compressed, and/or re-sent to auxes or other groups.
Old 8th May 2003
  #3
Moderator emeritus
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by jon
I typically use from 12 to 24 or more different sends/groups/subgroups for a typical larger music mix. The returns are routed to either the large or small faders...which can be automated, EQed, compressed, and/or re-sent to auxes or other groups.
Jon, give us a breakdown of how you use the sends, groups and subgroups on a largish mix, if you would.
Old 8th May 2003
  #4
Gear Guru
 
thethrillfactor's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by jon
I typically use from 12 to 24 or more different sends/groups/subgroups for a typical larger music mix. The returns are routed to either the large or small faders...which can be automated, EQed, compressed, and/or re-sent to auxes or other groups.

Jon same here.

If the console has more even better. My reasoning is:

1)Most consoles don't have enough auxes(the max I've seen so far is 16 on a console and most times its not enough). The groups give you extra sends.

2) When doing parallell/splits and "small subgroups". Again when doing elaborate mixies, you end up using all the sends and returns you can squeeze out of the console.

My ideal console would have 24-32 auxes(all accessible at the same time) and 48 sub groups and don't forget the direct sends for the 96 input(240 inputs at mixdown) behemoth.heh
Old 8th May 2003
  #5
Lives for gear
 
e-cue's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
When I settle in for a mix, I use (or should I say set up) all the auxes, the stereo cues, and 44 buses. I don't use them all at once, but I keep them set up so I don't have to wait on patching.
Old 8th May 2003
  #6
jon
Capitol Studios Paris
 
jon's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Yep, what thrill and e-cue said.

Dave,

With the 9k, you got 8 auxes accessible from both large and small faders, 48 subgroups, 48 direct sends, 4 stereo busses (ABCD), 8 group faders, and the dual multitrack returns on the patchbay (the signal is split on the patch to two places). Plus you can make subgroups with the 'subgroup' button and 'group' button on each channel as well.

There are so many routing possibilites that it's hard to give any rules.

I use the 8 group faders for setting up groups along the lines of "drums", "bass", "clean gits", "dist gits", "VX", "BV", "FX", "MIX" or something like that. Group fader 8 ("MIX") often has the other 7 routed to it to control the entire mix without having to use the master fader (thus avoiding the VCA circuit).

Aux sends are used for the most-shared things. Specific FX and mults can be routed to from one of the 48 groups, via either the small faders or the aux sends any of which can be individually hijacked as group sends, or using the direct group outs, or the dual multitrack returns on the patchbay.

Subgroups can also be made with the dedicated buttons for it, or using the 4 stereo busses A, B, C or D.

You can setup a large number of software groups, i.e. when you press one switch any group of other ones reacts in the same or opposite way.

The small faders on the 9k sort of define your mixing style in a way...sometimes you use the smalls for automated sends, sometimes for automated returns, sometimes in 4-channel mode to automate stereo panning moves.
Old 9th May 2003
  #7
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I'm not doing huge mixes like that, but I burn through at least 4 busses on a rock mix. Maybe as many as 12. Usually it goes like this for my "big" mixes.

1/2 = Drum mult (stereo)
3 - Sansamp
4 - Subharmonic Synth
5 - 2nd Sansamp
6 - Stompbox one (usually a flanger or something)
7 - Stompbox two
8/9 - BGV mult
10 - snare mult

I might also do guitar or tom mults which eat up two more busses each. I can get by with 8 busses and 4 sends, but 16 busses and 6-8 sends is really my minimum for an involved mix.
Old 9th May 2003
  #8
Lives for gear
 
drundall's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I'm at about 8-10 right now but this mix has few effects. I also use mults where others might use busses.
Old 9th May 2003
  #9
Gear Nut
 
stuntmixer's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
The mult/buss dance is one of the thing I try try to get going as quick into a mix as possible. I'm always amazed at how many different ways there are to acheive basicly the same goal with subtle but important differences.

I'm usually here:

Drums - stereo
Sub harmonics
filter - sometimes stereo
BGV - stereo
Gtrs - sometimes
Sansamp - always on something
kick/bass - love smashing them together sometimes
snare - to treat mult
vox - same

Different mixes demand different things. I rarely have all of these elements bussed.
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