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coles 4038. what preamp do you recommend with it?
Old 26th July 2009
  #1
Registered User
 
🎧 10 years
coles 4038. what preamp do you recommend with it?

Hi.
just bought coles 4038 mic pair.
what preamp do you recommend with it?
have been looking at f.ex the AEA trp ribbon preamp and chandler tg-2.
Old 26th July 2009
  #2
Lives for gear
 
Marcocet's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
He 4038 is one of the few mics I find to be really picky about mic pre impedance. The top end opens up a lot when you use something like an ampex 310 or 601. I'd imagine the aea pre would sound really good too, or something like the gt vipre
Old 26th July 2009 | Show parent
  #3
Gear Guru
 
RoundBadge's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I use Neve ,API, Dakings w/ Coles on ovhead's, no problems
The AEA is fine too .a bit cleaner but sounds good
Old 26th July 2009 | Show parent
  #4
Gear Nut
 
Noise10's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
John Hardy M1, Great River. I second the impedence comment. Loves 300ohms
Old 26th July 2009 | Show parent
  #5
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
The best my vintage 4038's sound is when I pair them with my GT Vipre's, they kill and it's due to the variable impedance function on the Vipre. I have used Neves, Calrecs, and Api's as well and have not been disappointed by any means, they all sound great.

I have not heard the AEA TRP but it's their claim to fame, ribbon use. I don't know how versatile they are beyond being a good ribbon pre. They may be a 1 trick pony something the Vipre and other pres mentioned aren't, they have many many applications.

The all important part of the equation is of course the cost of your now needed 2 channels of good ribbon preamps. The AEA TRP a 2 channel unit and new is about $900.00 and this is very affordable. This is not so with the other choices mentioned with the API's the least expensive for a pair.

So if moneys no object I'd look at the other options because of the mentioned versatility. But if money is a issue at $900.00 for a 2 channel Pre that fits your needs the AEA TRP seems a very good choice.

Regards ,,deda,,
Old 26th July 2009 | Show parent
  #6
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Tim Abraham's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I also prefer 300ohms (on my TG2) for 4038's.
Old 26th July 2009 | Show parent
  #7
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kittonian's Avatar
BAE 1073. Seriously, you can do anything with that puppy and it sounds amazing.
Old 27th July 2009 | Show parent
  #8
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🎧 10 years
I really like them through ISA preamps when I'm using them as drum overheads, and through RN Portico with the "silk" turned off when I use them on brass instruments!
Old 27th July 2009 | Show parent
  #9
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psycho_monkey's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
+1 on the Great River. Also had good results using anything neve-ish....Calrec for example.
Old 27th July 2009 | Show parent
  #10
Registered User
 
🎧 10 years
use em with neve 1073's for overheads. with a Requisite PAL plus for e guitars.
Old 27th July 2009
  #11
Registered User
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by golafs ➑️
Hi.
just bought coles 4038 mic pair.
what preamp do you recommend with it?
have been looking at f.ex the AEA trp ribbon preamp and chandler tg-2.
the same one type of preamp you are using for the whole rest of the record on everything else.
Old 27th July 2009 | Show parent
  #12
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Benmrx's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Out of the pre's we have. I usually prefer the Tube Hamptone with the 4038.
Old 27th July 2009 | Show parent
  #13
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Benmrx's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by wwittman ➑️
the same one type of preamp you are using for the whole rest of the record on everything else.
I might, except I can't turn off phantom power on this Quad Eight!!
Old 27th July 2009
  #14
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
My favorite match for all purpose use with my 4038's would be the Aurora GT2Q. All the gain (90db) you'll ever need and the Coles just love the EQ. Like a 1081, too.
Old 27th July 2009 | Show parent
  #15
Gear Nut
 
tendadaraposa's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I have lovely results with the Great River MP-500NV's. Also like to match them with focusrite reds for piano recording. Actualy, I find it very hard to get a bad sound with the 4038's, regardless the preamp you're using.
Old 27th July 2009 | Show parent
  #16
Registered User
 
🎧 10 years
recently ran one through a Sytek MPX4ii and was fab
Old 27th July 2009 | Show parent
  #17
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Marcocet's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Seriously, phantom power should not be a problem. Just make sure the xlr to the mic is the last thing that you plug in. The real danger is either broken cables or patching phantom across a TT bay where the pins make the wrong contacts for a second.

Most vintage consoles have constant phantom. People used ribbon mics with them every day. I use them every day with a Neve 5316 where the phantom can't be turned off. I've blown ribbons before, but never from phantom power.

Try the quad eights. I bet they sound boss.
Old 27th July 2009 | Show parent
  #18
Registered User
 
Benmrx's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcocet ➑️
Seriously, phantom power should not be a problem. Just make sure the xlr to the mic is the last thing that you plug in. The real danger is either broken cables or patching phantom across a TT bay where the pins make the wrong contacts for a second.

Most vintage consoles have constant phantom. People used ribbon mics with them every day. I use them every day with a Neve 5316 where the phantom can't be turned off. I've blown ribbons before, but never from phantom power.

Try the quad eights. I bet they sound boss.
I completely agree for the most part. And If I was the owner of this 4038 I would give it a try, but it's not mine. It lives here, but it's not mine. I've also worked on a few other consoles where phantom was always on. Namely the Trident A-Range at cherokee in studio 3. I've been trying to get the owner of this Q8 to rack up a couple modules in a rack for me with all the modern conveniences like phantom switching, etc. Probably won't happen though as he's always extremely busy with his fancy new house. Kinda hard to press him for stuff like that when he's just been letting me basically borrow this thing (x14 MM61's in a sidecar/frame) for..... I don't know........ over 4 years now??!
Old 28th July 2009 | Show parent
  #19
Registered User
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by tendadaraposa ➑️
Also like to match them with focusrite reds for piano recording.
Me too.
There's a very nice compensation that goes on between the airy, open top end of a RED pre and the high end roll off from the 4038.

Groove Tubes Vipre's also work very well. they give a more concentrated result than a RED.
Old 28th July 2009 | Show parent
  #20
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by wwittman ➑️
the same one type of preamp you are using for the whole rest of the record on everything else.
I sometimes have reading comprehension problems so correct me if I'm off track on your comment.

It seems your statement implies that he, then I guess others as well, should use and I quote, "the same one type of preamp you are using for the whole rest of the record on everything else". Again I'm just stating what your comment implies which endorses the use of one preamp for every application on anyones multitrack recording. Guitar, bass, drums and all that implies, other percussion, vocals, brass, piano, overdubs, etc., etc..
Wouldn't this one preamp only recording method require a console like a 70's Neve 80 series desk, a tricked out to the max API, a Trident A or some other classic loaded with preamp modules like Neve 1073's, 1064's, 1084's, 1081's, API 312's or 512's etc., etc., to be able to use this single preamp method?

I guess one would only be a quasi Gearslut if only using one preamp for everything or a lucky Slut with one of the classic desks and modules listed above.

What ever reasoning was applied to recommend this recording method does not Jive with me. I've 38 channels of various vintage and high end preamps and in most cases on a complete multitrack recording of 12 tracks say, I'd venture a guess I've used them all, but thats just me. I guess the old adage of "What Ever Floats Your Boat" would apply here.

Regards ,,deda,,
Old 28th July 2009 | Show parent
  #21
Registered User
 
🎧 15 years
I use a Hardy M1. However, I've been playing with an SSL X-rack VHD and think there is some potential there for some very interesting sounds.
Old 5th August 2009 | Show parent
  #22
Registered User
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benmrx ➑️
I might, except I can't turn off phantom power on this Quad Eight!!
which is perfectly fine.

they used 4038s in studios all over the world with desks with permanently on phantom

it doesn't MATTER unless something is miswired
Old 5th August 2009
  #23
member no 666
 
Fletcher's Avatar
 
🎧 20 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by golafs ➑️
Hi.
just bought coles 4038 mic pair.
what preamp do you recommend with it?
have been looking at f.ex the AEA trp ribbon preamp and chandler tg-2.
The ones you've been looking at are both perfectly fine, and diametrically opposed in terms of sonics.

Whaddaya think of the concept of ordering both from your favorite dealer, getting them both into your room and spending a couple of days playing with them to try to determine which best suits your sense of aesthetic and musical sensibilities?

Ahhh, phuck it, this is GS. Just get a 1073 and hits will ooze into the computer as if by magic.
Old 5th August 2009 | Show parent
  #24
member no 666
 
Fletcher's Avatar
 
🎧 20 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by wwittman ➑️
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benmrx ➑️
I might, except I can't turn off phantom power on this Quad Eight!!
which is perfectly fine.

they used 4038s in studios all over the world with desks with permanently on phantom

it doesn't MATTER unless something is miswired
William, what the hell is wrong with you?

Introducing a well known fact to try to debunk one of the greatest myths and old wives tales in the novice segment of the recording industry? If the novices find out that you couldn't turn the phantom off on things like 8078's and A-Ranges and that 4038's were used all the time they'll almost sound like they know something!!!

Stop it. You might make it harder to tell the men from the boys!!
Old 5th August 2009 | Show parent
  #25
Registered User
 
Benmrx's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletcher ➑️
William, what the hell is wrong with you?

Introducing a well known fact to try to debunk one of the greatest myths and old wives tales in the novice segment of the recording industry? If the novices find out that you couldn't turn the phantom off on things like 8078's and A-Ranges and that 4038's were used all the time they'll almost sound like they know something!!!

Stop it. You might make it harder to tell the men from the boys!!
I'm not challenging you in any way, but all I know is that when I was at Cherokee in studio 3 with the A-Range, it was a BIG no-no to use certain ribbon mics without bypassing the console. At least that's what Bruce and Rob (owners) and, Alex? (I think that was his name).... the tech said.
Old 6th August 2009 | Show parent
  #26
Registered User
 
🎧 15 years
Well, all I can say to that is I worked at Cherokee MANY times and never had anyone say 'boo' when plugging in and out 4038s, RCAs or M-160s.

and naturally, nothing (bad) ever happens


Fletcher, we should try to have a drink during the AES atrocity (maybe take Daking, who is always entertaining)
Old 6th August 2009 | Show parent
  #27
Louder Than Liftoff
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by deda ➑️
Wouldn't this one preamp only recording method require a console like a 70's Neve 80 series desk, a tricked out to the max API, a Trident A or some other classic loaded with preamp modules like Neve 1073's, 1064's, 1084's, 1081's, API 312's or 512's etc., etc., to be able to use this single preamp method?
Why would it imply that? It implies only what it states. Use the same type of preamp for all your tracks. So let's say you record live rock bands and typically use 12 channels of preamps to get through a live basic tracking session. Instead of using 2 API, 4 Neve, 2 Chandler, 2 Great River, and 2 John Hardy, just buy 12X (insert favorite preamp here) instead, and then continue to do your overdubs with the same preamp. You don't need a console to do this. Some guy in a bedroom with one preamp is likely doing this by default.

Your record will not suffer by using one preamp as William recommends. You may even find it comes out sounding more glued.

Brad
Old 6th August 2009 | Show parent
  #28
Registered User
 
🎧 10 years
This thread is kind of funny. Every possible style of preamp from clean and clear to various shades of colour has been recommended. It seems that the 4038 works with most things.
Old 7th August 2009 | Show parent
  #29
Registered User
 
Benmrx's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by wwittman ➑️
Well, all I can say to that is I worked at Cherokee MANY times and never had anyone say 'boo' when plugging in and out 4038s, RCAs or M-160s.

and naturally, nothing (bad) ever happens
I'm sure you did!!

I'm going to wager a guess that you were there as a "1st engineer" or producer also. You guys were allowed to "break the rules" on practically all accounts!. You could smoke in the control room and everything, and it's great that nothing happened. However for us lowly assistants and interns we were always told not to do so.
Old 7th August 2009 | Show parent
  #30
Registered User
 
🎧 15 years
I have a pair of Coles 4038 that I use on EVERYTHING! Well mostly (no Kick, Bass amp or up-close vocals)........

I've used API 3124/512c's, Millennia, Wunder Audio, Chandler TG & Germanium, Apogee Ensemble, Great River and Avedis......
It really depends on the instrument, the sound you're going for and song/style......


For Classical guitar, I loved the Apogee Ensemble's pres. They were surprisingly clear and focused. The midrange on the Wunder, Great River and Avedis can be a little overwhelming to me, but cut/add some eq on the Wunder, adjust the Impedence on the GR, or add the 28K on the Avedis and you're there most of the way (aside from adding HPF to taste). The Wunder ended up being too noisy for me, the Great River was near perfect and the Avedis is amazingly perfect. The API way too noisy (not enough gain) for classical guitar, same with the Millennia and low end is WAY too flubby (is that a word?!?!). Germanium & TG are too sloppy for classical guitar IMHO.

For drums, chose your flavor! Overhead L/R, In Front L/R, Mono OH/Front..... the Coles sound HUGE. The API's give PUNCH and really round out the low end. The Chandler stuff is sick and thick!!!! The Wunders are great as well. The Apogee & Millennia can work if you need less mids (Apogee) and farty bass & scratchy high hat (Millennia ) ...no matter what add HPF to taste!

Electric Guitar.....your flavor/song will vary......need lots of thickness, go with the Chandler stuff. IMHO for an electric guitar to FIT in a mix, (ie, not get in the way of the bass, kick, keys etc), you really must go with the something like the Great River or Avedis; those 2 pres KILL with electric guitar....if you're looking for dirty guitar, the API works as well and it really tightens the low end of the Coles (add HPF to taste.....you follow where I'm going?)

Choirs....Oh good heavens! In a stony/marbly/woody church/cathedral, the Coles 4038 are killer. Here's where the Millennia and Apogee shine....yes, tame the low end by adding HPF to taste....The Avedis with the 28K also kills for choirs! You'll may need to adjust your mids....The Chandler, API & Wunder, I never tried them in the app.....oh yeah, add HPF to taste!!!!!! (If the 4038's are just too thick/midrangey for vocals here, try the Coles 4040, oh good heavens!!!!!!!!)

Keys, Stings, horns,....I haven't had the chance to test these yet

They say preamps don't make a big impact on your tone. But in my small experience with the Coles 4038, it's one of the most noticable factors going on! I'll ask my publisher if I can post some wavs here so you guys can hear the difference!

PS. Pres I want to try with the 4038 are: Pacifica/P1, Buzz Elixer, Hardy....
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