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Moving from neve 8024 to SSL G+... help!!!
Old 25th July 2002
  #1
Lives for gear
 
Wiggy Neve Slut's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Moving from neve 8024 to SSL G+... help!!!

Hey there....

This Neve slut is moving ......doing some mixes soon on a little 40ch G+... but i have never used one. Some would say that is a blessing but i am still going to be lost amongst all the new buttons and features they have that the 8024 that i regularly use does not.... so i guess if you nice ppl could give me some pointers for a crash course in using one of these it would be most appreciated !!!! Cheers !!!

Here are some questions i spose i am looking to have answered?

How good are the channel compressors/gates? are they only good enough to stop leakage etc or are the decent enough to use on kik , snr etc?

What is the EQ like? is it more of a cutting or subtractive EQ for getting ride of crap and scultping than an addtional type of EQ which i consider the neve to be?

How differnt is the stero bus compressor to the Al Smart C2?

How easy is the automation?---> i will be mixing out of PT mix+ thru RME's so it will sound way better than ****ing 666(888's) so i will do all the mutes in PT and set the PT for unity output.

CHeers
+
PEACE
Wiggy
Old 25th July 2002
  #2
jon
Capitol Studios Paris
 
jon's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Hi Wiggy,

How good are the channel compressors/gates? are they only good enough to stop leakage etc or are the decent enough to use on kik , snr etc?

The SSL comps are pretty good in the aggressive, punchy category. You hear them. Not for pump, more for bringing out the knock or pop. The gates work pretty well...be sure to pull up the release pot for fast attack on drums.

What is the EQ like? is it more of a cutting or subtractive EQ for getting ride of crap and scultping than an addtional type of EQ which i consider the neve to be?

Relative to the old Neves, the SSL EQ is a bit more versatile. Fairly aggressive, too...a little goes a long way. You'll often find that you're both cutting and boosting within a single EQ section.

Is it an all-G desk, EQ-wise? The E EQ sounds different from the G EQ. The J series EQs which are modeled on the G and E are also different. For rock, I find I like the E on drums and guitars, the G on vocals and clean/hi-fi sources. Different colors...

How differnt is the stero bus compressor to the Al Smart C2?

It's pretty similar. Try it on your mix. If you like it, use it. I use the J series quad comp pretty often.

How easy is the automation?---> i will be mixing out of PT mix+ thru RME's so it will sound way better than ****ing 666(888's) so i will do all the mutes in PT and set the PT for unity output.

The auto is pretty easy once you get into it, but you should have a good assistant around for the first sessions to set things up and show you the ropes. I generally do mutes and rides on the SSL rather than in PT...unless we're doing micro-second sibilance-riding on a bad vocal, which PT is better for.

One major change for you is that the signal paths (LF, SF, dynamics section, EQ section, mults, groups, stereo busses, center section) are more flexible with the SSL than the old Neves...have fun.

Jon
Old 25th July 2002
  #3
Gear Maniac
 
Stizz's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I would basically agree with Jon's comments - but Be Careful with the gates - pulling up on the knobs for a fast attack often causes them to open with an audible click (which may be just what you want for drums )yuktyy
Old 25th July 2002
  #4
jon
Capitol Studios Paris
 
jon's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
True. Due to this, I like to mute or ride drums rather than gating them. But if I'm gating, say, the snare to have less hihat, I'll need the fast attack (relase knob pulled up) to keep the transients. In this case, to avoid pops (and sound more natural) the gate range should be only a few dB. The other way to avoid pops is to set the threshold really low.
Old 25th July 2002
  #5
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
Wiggy,
When you start mixing, take a deep breath and say to yourself, I can do this! I say this, cause I go back and forth between old Neves and SSL's and the two beasts require a TOTALLY different approach IMHSHO. If you are used to an 80 series Neve you have gotten used to infinite headroom, sonics that sound great before you do anything, and an eq that is really just a tone control. First, a G will sound very thin. I think part of this is the quality of the signal coming out of the monitor feed. Also the channels don't have a lot of headroom, so if you crank up the bass eq you could be in trouble. I pick only a few elements like bass drum and bass gtr to have real bass, most everything else get high passed as high as possible to maximize the headroom issue. A Pultech or 1073 helps for the bass things. Another trick if are really having trouble getting your groove on, is to run the console in Record/large faders to monitor. It gives you a little less flexibility with routing but sounds way better. Also try patching around the center section of the console and using a submaster as a master fader. You lose the stereo compressor which is a drag, but if you have something else to use for compression, it can sound better this way. I personally really like the SSL eqs and the channel dynamics are great for some things, but the auto gain makeup on the compressors can fool you into thinking they make EVERYTHING sound better, so use sparingly. Another subtle issue is the pan pots. On old Neves the pan pots seem to me to have a strange taper to them and don't do alot till you get to hard left or right. SSL pan pots have a much finer degree of audible "resolution". If you like to hard-pan things, like I do, this new found resolution can tempt you to put many things at less than all the way out. Be careful. SSL's also make NS10's sound better than any other console I can think of, so if you use NS10's be sure to listen to some mixes that you know well to familiarize yourself. This is good advice when going to any studio you are not familiar with. Hope this helps. Happy mixing!
Old 26th July 2002
  #6
jon
Capitol Studios Paris
 
jon's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Great post, McSnare...

Good point about the auto makeup gain on the comps, which is a drag...you have to ride the fader levels when comparing comp in/comp out to compensate. Also, it would be easier to have the mixdown fader levels closer to the sweet spot if there was a manual makeup gain control. My impression is that the headroom issue and thinness with the G series were pretty well addressed in the completely different design of the J series desks, which have much better headroom and overall sonics. And yes, NS10s sound pretty damn good when sitting on an SSL meter bridge...they are hard to beat in my world...though I will test a pair of ADAM S3As next week. One thing that can sound good on the J which might work with the G, is sending multitrack outputs to the channel insert return instead of the channel line in...though it's more hassle. Finally, a thing which I always do, is to patch from the desk main outputs to the mixdown deck directly instead of using the normaled patchbay (buffered) distro...particularly if the main 2-track I want to use is not ST1 or 4T1 on the patchbay. It's a pretty big difference.

Jon
Old 26th July 2002
  #7
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
Jon,
Thanks for the thumbs up. I think the J series sounds fantastic and I'm a diehard Neve 80's series/API fan. My comments only apply to E's and G's. I did work on a G+ special edition with Ultimation that sounded great. J's have a cleaner path all around and the headroom issue is much better, however when you reach the end of the line it does not clip as gracefully as the E or G. But I'm sure you knew that already!
mcsnare
Old 26th July 2002
  #8
Gear Maniac
 
vsl666's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
good desk

wiggy .. your going to have a great time using a good desk for a change ..heh heh

with all the buttons the right way up ..
the automation is going to confuse the pants off you ..
tho its simple its a bit twisted..as the faders arnt where they are


rest of its incredibley easy ...and err logical ?
i personally dont rate the comps or gates atall..
arnt they next to usless ?*shruggs* all the lights look nice when u use them tho ..

ssl rules ko

(ps take a few neves/telefunkens along!)
Old 28th July 2002
  #9
jon
Capitol Studios Paris
 
jon's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
McSnare,

Yep, the J does not clip in a very musical way at all...unlike the E/Gs, there's nothing to be gained by going there. Conversely, the levels have to be so high to get there (dunno, maybe 15 dB over full scale) that it's not really a problem other than the different mix mentality involved. BTW, what's your opinion on the differences between the G and J buss comps? SSL says they are the same...but the J quad comp doesn't sound the same as the E/G ones (or a C1) from what I can recall...

Jon
Old 28th July 2002
  #10
Lives for gear
 
davemc's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
How are you mate?

So what is it going to be Wiggy SSL slut now heh

Hope you are cool and well and un stresed mate.
Old 28th July 2002
  #11
Lives for gear
 
Wiggy Neve Slut's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
RESPECT!!!! to everyone who has posted...

it has all been take onboard...

I am looking forwad to this dsay as each day comes closer!

I went into the studio the other day and had a further sniff around. The owner gave me a quick run down on the SSL but it went in on ear and out the other cos i think i was more intersted in the outboard.

Amongts some of the more usual type peices of mit that you owuld find in this sort of room they have stax of 'wierd & odball' **** that sounds surprisingly good!.

Amongst this is

2 x 1073
2 x Avalon 737---Yawn!
Amek 9098 compressor/limiter
A local manufacturer of tube gear lots of his inductor 'pultec' type EQ's and compressors.
Cambridge 12ch sidecar.... very calrec/neve like from broadcast OB van
and heaps more

Mc Snare:
Even when on 80 series i always roll off heavily and HPF and LPF accordingly. I fins this helps the mix acheivr w greater degree of serpartion which mos tpeople find harder to achieve on Neves cos of the FAT signal path and all the iron in the tranformers. When i was in attendance for a mix @ another studio on an old E series the firtst thing that i noticed was the way that the mix bus of SSL manages to seperate each track to create its own space. I spose this is why the Neve has so much mystique about the sonic glue that the circuit provides and how it manages to 'congiel'? the mix together as aopposed to serarating it.

I will be more than covered for bottom end stuff.... it was eq on the way on via 1073's so its spanking and as well as its PT it has heaps more than usual cos of the bottom octave missing IMHO.

I am taking my 2 Shep SN8, avalon 747, ABc broadcast limters and my CLM expounders so i htink i will be covered for good Eq's for drums and vox and 2bus

Will take some pix when i get there!


Thanx
PEACE
Wiggy
W
Old 29th July 2002
  #12
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
Jon,
I never really noticed that much difference in the Quad Comp ffom series to series, although I do like the Smart a little more.
Old 29th July 2002
  #13
Lives for gear
 
Wiggy Neve Slut's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Al Smart for president!

'Al' presdente` Smart....

Its (c2) is generally the 2buss for all ocasions?.... It really is I ahve had great success with it recently on KIK.. did i mention that it was PUNCHY as fuk! just how we like it!!!

I have had the kik multed off to 2 channels with different setting and had one kik for verse and thne a harder one for chorus! tis da ****!!!!

Jon, Mc Snare anyone?.... can i expect the same sort of comrpession from G+ channel strip compressor as a C2?????


PEACE
Wiggy
Old 29th July 2002
  #14
Founder
 
Jules's Avatar
I seriously doubt it, I belive the comp parts in an SSL channel strip are modeled after DBX gear ....

But my factual milage on this one may vary..
Old 29th July 2002
  #15
Lives for gear
 
Volodia's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
There are DBX VCAs on the SSL quad comp and on channels(although it's a different one).
Old 30th July 2002
  #16
Lives for gear
 
Knox's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Wiggy . . . you do know what the SSL initials stand for don't you?

Sure Sounds Lousy

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