The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
Forssell SMP-2 vs Gordon Model 5
Old 5th March 2013 | Show parent
  #301
Registered User
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
I had made some rather tough comments about this unit last year, while not giving it a fair, more comprehensive trial.
Yeah, I remember and you're a good sport for doing this, Baz.
And remember "no prophet is accepted in his hometown".

Anyway, thanks for the review. As a matter of fact, I'm intrigued by the Creamer and wonder how well it would complement my Gordon. So this is perfect timing as far as I'm concerned.

Quote:
what really surprised us is how it seemed closer with the output transformer engaged when recording the nylon.
Fe or Ni/Fe? (In other words, A or B version?)



Henk
Old 5th March 2013 | Show parent
  #302
Lives for gear
 
ISedlacek's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
After some time, with fresh ears, I again very carefully, attentively and with great interest listened to all we have recorded here and also reflected the real sound of the instruments in the room ...

First I thought , I will not share my impressions at all (as suggested by Mr.Bcgood), but in the end, why not So I may share it, if it is of some interest for someone.

As we all know, all the three preamps sound simply great and I would not hesitate to use any of them and be happy.

If we want to distinguish among them, of course, we are talking about very subtle dimensions of sound (as always From that point of view, I somehow perceived quite consistent picture and differences from all the material we made after listening to it few times …

When I compared Gordon with SMP-2 on all the sources, there was definitely a sound difference between the two. From one point of view - Gordon seemed, as if, to capture a bit more of the room, which may be called "more realistic", from the other point of view, it sounded consistently as if a bit thinner or "drier" (and also a tiny bit "sharper") than SMP-2. As if SMP-2 had a bit more "aura", direct focus, "life juice" or "air" around all it captures (be it voice or instrument). I cannot say it for violin, flute etc. from obvious reasons, but when I have my head and ears above the huge monochord with microphones placed at the same level and playing it, I would say the instrument does have that "extra juice" and focused power in reality.

After more listening, I somehow got an impression that I would not just simply say I heard MORE ROOM through Gordon as something that was added (as people usually report) , but I would rather say , I heard MORE ROOM with Gordon, because it somehow lacked something a bit from the immediate nearfield focus as if, so in what remained, the "room" was more apparent. I actually heard the SAME room in SMP-2 samples, but the overall sound included more of the organic immediate focused fullness as well , so comparing to Gordon, the room sound could be seemingly less apparent - but it was not less of it there, it was just a part of a fuller picture as if …

So, which attitude and sound result to prefer, may be a question of personal taste. We are deciding between Audi or BMW ...

Thermionic Earlybird - it is a bit different animal … a kind of first class sweet delicacy from high end master store. It does not have that natural space, fullness and depth as SMP-2 or Gordon do , but has an extra bit of very aristocratic velvet warmth and sweeteness (but not too much). Great, wherever one feels to add that kind of decent touch and sweet odour For me the very best tube preamp I tried so far (and I tried them quite a lot).

It may not take long before I will get the opportunity to try the new Pueblo preamp (that was already discussed here). I am very curious and look forward to it ...
Old 5th March 2013 | Show parent
  #303
Registered User
 
🎧 10 years
Ivo, for a single, acoustic instrument the Forssell really does impress. But supposing you had both the Gordon and Forssell and you had to record multiple acoustic instruments in a reverberant room, e.g. a small church. With two condensers only. Which would you expect to take the cake?



Henk
Old 5th March 2013 | Show parent
  #304
Registered User
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ISedlacek ➑️
...As we all know, all the three preamps sound simply great and I would not hesitate to use any of them and be happy.
...So, which attitude and sound result to prefer, may be a question of personal taste. We are deciding between Audi or BMW ...
I just ordered another Gordon 5 to get enough channels for a surround microphone (Josephson C700S) and the API spot-mic lunchbox has two empty slots yearning, perhaps, for a Forssell SMP-500. But ne thing at a time.

I hope you'll get your hands on a Pueblo Audio to compare it with these other nice preamps. So far all the reviews are positive.
Old 5th March 2013
  #305
Lives for gear
 
Plush's Avatar
 
5 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Sweet Odour!

thanyavermuh, Ivo
Old 6th March 2013 | Show parent
  #306
Lives for gear
 
bcgood's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ISedlacek ➑️

First I thought , I will not share my impressions at all (as suggested by Mr.Bcgood), but in the end, why not So I may share it, if it is of some interest for someone.
Just to be clear I never once suggested that you not share your impressions at all.

I simply said that I wasn't eager to read your review as I felt it would be unfairly biased in favor of the SMP2 since you sell them.

To me its like asking a BMW dealer what they like better an Audi or a BMW. I think we all know the answer to that question! : )
Old 6th March 2013 | Show parent
  #307
Lives for gear
 
ISedlacek's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
I respect your general view, but as the one who really knows me, i.e. the subject in question, I do not find your presumptions applicable here ... But you are welcome to take whatever you want from what is said here (by whomever) ... As for me - I trust and respect people who do not hide behind being anonymous ... otherwise it is too easy to say whatever
Old 6th March 2013 | Show parent
  #308
Registered User
 
🎧 10 years
Ivo, I sent you a PM this morning.



Henk
Old 6th March 2013 | Show parent
  #309
Lives for gear
 
bcgood's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ISedlacek ➑️
I respect your general view, but as the one who really knows me, i.e. the subject in question, I do not find your presumptions applicable here ... But you are welcome to take whatever you want from what is said here (by whomever) ... As for me - I trust and respect people who do not hide behind being anonymous ... otherwise it is too easy to say whatever
First of all bcgood are my initials and secondly since Gordon doesn't have any dealers I'm obviously not promoting Gordon other than I'm a fan of them.
Old 6th March 2013 | Show parent
  #310
Lives for gear
 
ISedlacek's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
I am a fan of all of them
Old 13th March 2013 | Show parent
  #311
Registered User
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schaap ➑️
+1! The first thing I noticed was how more 'room' the Gordon picked up, like Gyang said earlier.
So you need a decent room for optimum results but that's pretty obvious
True. And you can more distinctly hear how different mic patterns capture desired room sounds and leave out the rest.
Old 20th April 2013
  #312
Lives for gear
 
didier.brest's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I just listened to the only track recorded simultaneously with both preamps. No difference for my ears. Which makes me think that the very noticeable difference I heard from the guitar duo track has nothing to do with the preamps.
Old 20th April 2013
  #313
Registered User
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by didier.brest ➑️
I just listened to the only track recorded simultaneously with both preamps. No difference for my ears. Which makes me think that the very noticeable difference I heard from the guitar duo track has nothing to do with the preamps.
What are your monitoring with?
Old 20th April 2013
  #314
Lives for gear
 
didier.brest's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I do not think that my monitoring chain is of concern:

Atoll DAC 200 ----> SPL Phonitor ---> Beyerdynamic T1
....................|--------------------> PSI A17-M

The biggest difference is that the Forsell track is 0.5 dB louder. Here attached both tracks after RMS level balancing and conversion to 44 kHz x 16 bit (r8brain, quality setting: very high).
Attached Files

song1 schoeps simultan gordon_r8b.wav (6.49 MB, 2294 views)

song1 schoeps simultan forssell_r8b.wav (6.60 MB, 2223 views)

Old 20th April 2013 | Show parent
  #315
Registered User
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by didier.brest ➑️
I just listened to the only track recorded simultaneously with both preamps. No difference for my ears.
Quote:
Originally Posted by didier.brest ➑️
The biggest difference is that the Forsell track is 0.5 dB louder.
((( )))

Quote:
Originally Posted by didier.brest ➑️
Here attached both tracks after RMS level balancing and conversion to 44 kHz x 16 bit (r8brain, quality setting: very high).
Reduce the sample resolution for critical listening? That's another puzzle.
Old 20th April 2013 | Show parent
  #316
Lives for gear
 
Schaap's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by didier.brest ➑️
I do not think that my monitoring chain is of concern:
Maybe a check will do. Even with my (modded)speakers of the internetcomputer I hear the Gorden sound that I know and the Forsell has more high with sometimes an unpleasant esses. You 're sure you used the same settings in R8brain for both files?
Old 20th April 2013 | Show parent
  #317
Lives for gear
 
didier.brest's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelPatrick ➑️
Reduce the sample resolution for critical listening? That's another puzzle.
If the sonic difference due to the preamps is much reduced when converting the audio from 96 x 24 to 44 x 16 to the point of being no longer audible, I don't care about it !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schaap
You 're sure you used the same settings in R8brain for both files?
Yes I converted both files in a row.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schaap ➑️
the Forsell has more high with sometimes an unpleasant esses.
A good preamp like the Forsell cannot have more highs than another good preamp like the Gordon: they both are flat within better than 1 dB (Gordon claims 0.01 dB from 2 Hz up to 300 kHz). Any difference in spectral level shall be caused by the source: both microphones cannot be exactly at the same position.
Old 20th April 2013
  #318
Registered User
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by didier.brest ➑️
If the sonic difference due to the preamps is much reduced when converting the audio from 96 x 24 to 44 x 16 to the point of being no longer audible, I don't care about it !
Ivo recorded at higher resolution for a reason.
Else, I suppose, we could just listen to MP3s heh
Old 8th May 2013
  #319
Registered User
 
🎧 10 years
Just thanking Ivo one more time for another great set of samples.
I admire your passion and pursuit for excellence.

I liked the Forssell better than the Gordon, but only marginally and considering the Forssell is a lot cheaper, it's a no brainer for those trying to decide. I've been using the Forssell for many years and I love it.
HOWEVER as I mostly work with folk/pop/rock/indie my vote goes to the Earlybird on most samples. Man why does it have to be so freaking expensive!!!
Old 8th May 2013
  #320
Registered User
 
🎧 10 years
Just thanking Ivo one more time for another great set of samples.
I admire your passion and pursuit for excellence.

I liked the Forssell better than the Gordon, but only marginally and considering the Forssell is a lot cheaper, it's a no brainer for those trying to decide. I've been using the Forssell for many years and I love it.
HOWEVER as I mostly work with folk/pop/rock/indie my vote goes to the Earlybird on most samples. Man why does it have to be so freaking expensive!!!
Old 21st June 2013 | Show parent
  #321
Registered User
 
🎧 15 years
A few Gordon 5 WAV clips

In this post are several WAVs clips I recently captured in live concert with Gordon 5 preamps and a Josephson C700S surround microphone.

https://gearspace.com/board/9155718-post90.html

I like the depth you can get from one mic. It's due in no small part to a faithful preamp stage.
Old 20th August 2013 | Show parent
  #322
Lives for gear
 
Rumi's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Ivo, it would be great if you could share the results of your comparisons of the Forssell, Gordon and Pueblo with us! And it won't hurt to include Pendulum...

Thanks!

Best wishes,
Rumi
Old 22nd August 2013 | Show parent
  #323
Lives for gear
 
Rumi's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Earcatcher ➑️
Maybe we should set up a comparison of the Lake People and the Gordon as we are close enough to bring them together. (And we could include the True and Forssell as well.)
If that ever happens, please let us know the results!
Old 22nd August 2013 | Show parent
  #324
Lives for gear
 
Rumi's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
As you can see, I am in "mic pre comparison mode".

Ivo, your recordings are very informative, and knowing how much time and effort those involve, I would like to thank you very much for all the help you have been for us over the years.
Old 8th November 2013
  #325
Registered User
 
🎧 15 years
Hello everyone, I am the thread starter.

I was so happy to come back online today after some time away and notice how wonderfully this thread unfolded. Michael and Ivo and others certainly put in a lot of work and it is greatly appreciated.

I ended up picking up a Forssell used at a great price but to me price was never the main issue as I need to trust the preamp to record a Nikolaus Schimmel 7 foot grand piano I mortgaged my house for!!

The sound is marvellous. Grand pianos (unless you take their lids off) tend to sound cramped and the Forssell does a wonderful job at helping the sound feel more lifted and free. Mic placement is key but the smp-2 really helps to my ears.

By the way it also sounds wonderful on acoustic guitar but then again I don't mind a little fret noise and I love a hi-fi sounding steel string.

At the end of the day I love that good gear helps us worry less about gear and just make music.....I'll still take a stunning chord change over any gear, any day.....but the best gear makes the most of that harmonic musical moment.

And so...my Forssell helps me make music.

All the best!
Old 13th November 2013 | Show parent
  #326
Registered User
 
🎧 15 years
Just a fun bump to see if anyone is still enjoying these pres or had any new comparative experiences.
Old 15th April 2014 | Show parent
  #327
Lives for gear
 
Rumi's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by pianokeys ➑️
Just a fun bump to see if anyone is still enjoying these pres or had any new comparative experiences.
We'll be comparing Gordon, Pueblo, NPNG, Forssell, Pendulum, DAV and some other preamps tomorrow and the day after tomorrow, along with some mics (Wagner, Flea etc.). I will upload samples to the thread I have started a while ago about those preamps: Gordon vs. Pueblo (vs. Forssell, Pendulum, NPNG, Audio Upgrades...).
Old 23rd November 2017
  #328
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Bumping an old thread, but the Forssell SMP-2b model is out now. Does anyone know of the difference ? I can’t find it online
Old 25th November 2017 | Show parent
  #329
Registered User
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ari88 ➑️
Bumping an old thread, but the Forssell SMP-2b model is out now. Does anyone know of the difference ? I can’t find it online
I inquired about this a while back and this is what Fred wrote:

"The 2b uses exactly the same audio circuitry and power supply as the 2a.
The 2b has improved input and output protection from hot patching phantom
power and mis-patching the output to a phantom powered input. It has more
accurate level indication on musical sources, uses lower torque gain
switches, and has new PCB layouts for the channel boards, the motherboard
and the switch board. Other than that, exactly the same as the 2a"
.

I had a 2a on loan for a while and it remains the most impressive clear open preamp I have experienced especially for acoustic music. At the top of my wish list.
Old 25th November 2017 | Show parent
  #330
Lives for gear
 
ISedlacek's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
As a practical result, SMP-2b has yet a bit more sophisticated sound than SMP-2a in most aspects, I tested it in detail. Life is an evolution Except vocals, I don't use any other preamp than SMP-2 on everything. Simply amazing.
πŸ“ Reply

Similar Threads

Thread / Thread Starter Replies / Views Last Post
replies: 67 views: 36384
Avatar for thenoodle
thenoodle 31st July 2022
replies: 52 views: 22064
Avatar for Deleted 4373f97
Deleted 4373f97 23rd April 2019
replies: 448 views: 112705
Avatar for plainofjars
plainofjars 18th July 2022
replies: 411 views: 101077
Avatar for Rumi
Rumi 6th April 2022
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearspace Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…

Forum Jump
Forum Jump