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Forssell SMP-2 vs Gordon Model 5
Old 16th February 2013 | Show parent
  #271
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🎧 10 years
Yeah, seems a cool plan.
This summer?
Old 17th February 2013
  #272
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Earcatcher's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Let's do that!
Old 17th February 2013
  #273
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
ISedlacek, you have not had experience with the Martech MSS-10?
Old 20th February 2013 | Show parent
  #274
Registered User
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ISedlacek ➑️
I will share my own impressions very soon (being the one who heard all those instruments in reality and in that room).
Ivo, I'm eager to know your thoughts!
Old 20th February 2013
  #275
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GYang's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Earlybird (2.2) is my secret pre from the day I heard it and bought it. Now, bad Ivo revealed it to the world
Indeed, my favorite for realism is definitely Gordon coupled with Brauner KHE in good room. This duo kills, I have no patience to do such cool comparison recordings as Ivo, so take it for granted.
Thank you Ivo again, I feel I owe you a drink or lunch
Old 20th February 2013 | Show parent
  #276
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GYang's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Years ago I had MSS-10, remember it as nice sounding preamp and than Gordon entered into picture. We are talking nuances here.
Old 21st February 2013 | Show parent
  #277
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by legato ➑️
Yeah, seems a cool plan.
This summer?
If you want I have a Forssell SP-2a. Milan based. Thanks all for this absolute thread.
Old 21st February 2013 | Show parent
  #278
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
If you want I have a Forssell SP-2a. Milan based. Thanks all for this absolute thread.
Although I saw your country from a Swiss alp, right on the Italian border, I never actually entered Italy. (Oh, and from the French Mediterranean I got pretty close, too). Now here's an excuse.

Looks like I should do a European Gordon tour.
Grant, I need a sponsor.



Henk
Old 21st February 2013 | Show parent
  #279
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
So where are the great Euro preamps, or are the Americans the only ones able to design and build a great preamp?
Old 21st February 2013 | Show parent
  #280
Registered User
 
🎧 10 years
Slightly off topic, but a good question nonetheless.

Italy has QESlabs, Germany has always had "a couple", but here's one from my country (The Netherlands AKA Holland):

D2O - tritonaudio
Old 21st February 2013 | Show parent
  #281
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GYang's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Spearritt ➑️
So where are the great Euro preamps?
They still live on V72 accolades
And with purpose to degree

Isn't Thermionic considered European preamp anymore?
I know UK strives to leave EU and EU doesn't resist too much on that.
Old 21st February 2013 | Show parent
  #282
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Isn't Thermionic considered European preamp anymore?
Good question, too.

Perhaps one of us should start a new Euro preamp thread?
Old 22nd February 2013 | Show parent
  #283
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Haigbabe's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Spearritt ➑️
So where are the great Euro preamps, or are the Americans the only ones able to design and build a great preamp?
I'd consider the preamps in my Weiss gear to be pretty acceptable, similarly the preamps in the Horus as well as the slither cards in SADiE. And I also enjoy the preamps made by Rens Heijnis, he's no slouch with mics and preamps. And wasn't that Nerve guy occasionally able to knock out the odd piece of kit?

And what about all the other Brit consoles? And how about Soundfield? Calrec? Micstasy? Studer? DAD?

Haigbabe
Old 22nd February 2013 | Show parent
  #284
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haigbabe ➑️
I'd consider the preamps in my Weiss gear to be pretty acceptable, similarly the preamps in the Horus as well as the slither cards in SADiE. And I also enjoy the preamps made by Rens Heijnis, he's no slouch with mics and preamps. And wasn't that Nerve guy occasionally able to knock out the odd piece of kit?

And what about all the other Brit consoles? And how about Soundfield? Calrec? Micstasy? Studer? DAD?

Haigbabe
Where are the detailed comparison threads for those then?
Old 22nd February 2013 | Show parent
  #285
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ISedlacek's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
What about - designed in Sweden ? (quite Europe it is ...)





Just testing and comparing them. I must say, for the price, surprisingly good (both preamps and mics, although the preamp is not exactly in the transparent category). But that's for another thread
Old 26th February 2013 | Show parent
  #286
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bcgood's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelPatrick ➑️
Ivo, I'm eager to know your thoughts!
I'll be honest, I'm not. He has been dealing for Forrsell in Europe correct?
Old 26th February 2013 | Show parent
  #287
Registered User
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelPatrick ➑️
Ivo, I'm eager to know your thoughts!
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcgood ➑️
I'll be honest, I'm not. He has been dealing for Forrsell in Europe correct?
Opportunities for surprise should not be foreclosed!
It's OK to have a biased perspective; most of mine are biased by something or other.

If we're open about it a good conversation can go on. Discussion is more interesting and informative when quite different views are considered.
Old 27th February 2013 | Show parent
  #288
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcgood ➑️
I'll be honest, I'm not. He has been dealing for Forrsell in Europe correct?
Ivo has integrity coming out his ... and has given honest opinions from day 1. Combined with his exhaustive and meticulously prepared, uncompromising samples for all to listen to means we can make up your own minds despite his opinion.

His samples prompted me to buy SMP-2 and I do not regret it one bit, even after hearing the outstanding Gordon.
Old 27th February 2013 | Show parent
  #289
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🎧 10 years
I wanted to share my thoughts about this one, but David summed it up already. So a +1 will suffice.
Old 27th February 2013
  #290
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GYang's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
I trust Ivo's opinions and I know Gordon is on the top of very finest high-end preamps. Something like the first among equally the best.
Old 27th February 2013 | Show parent
  #291
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Plush's Avatar
 
5 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Refrain from dissing Ivo. He is always ENDORSED
Old 27th February 2013 | Show parent
  #292
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ISedlacek's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
I like all of them very much ... Each from different point of view and for a slightly different purpose ...

And as for "dealing" - first, it is just a small part of my activities (to offer great things around here) and as a matter of fact , I can "deal" with all of them ... so my opinion remains quite unbiased and returns again to the primordial enthusiastic core of all such exploration - to perceive and evaluate the SOUND in various applications
Old 27th February 2013 | Show parent
  #293
Registered User
 
🎧 10 years
The Forssell can simply be bought from European dealers.
The Gordon can't BTW.

OK, this might be worthwhile to point out, for readers who don't know. The going price for the Forssell SMP2 in the US is $1995 (two channels). The Gordon is $1800 for one channel and $2900 for the dual channel. If we add to that the fact that Grant is manufacturer, wholesaler and retailer all in one and doesn't advertise (that I know of), I think it is safe to assume that a Gordon 5 at an imaginary dealer would easily cost twice the price of a Forssell.
Now this doesn't necessarily mean the Gordon is twice as good, of course. There's the law of diminishing returns, not to mention taste.
Just to put things in the right perspective.

I'd love to own the Forssell, too.

Oh, and did I mention I value Ivo's opinion?



Henk
Old 27th February 2013 | Show parent
  #294
Registered User
 
🎧 15 years
RE opinions

This is a great thread! Threads of this kind too often get cluttered with arguments from people with limited ability to tolerate different opinions, which just impedes learning.

The best people to learn from, IMO, are those with deep experience in one or more disciplines who are open about their perspectives and biases. This is Ivo. We can all see from links in his signature how he operates and how he has developed an ear for music and gear. We can see some of his personal and business choices. He is as open and forthcoming as can be.

So what if someone sells gear as long as they are open about it? We all have some kind of bias. I don't sell gear but am strongly biased toward tools that deliver more soundstage localization details in live acoustic recordings. My bias might be useless to someone who records synths, uses DIs, who close-mics guitar cabs and drums, or who just wants a preamp to make instruments sound better in some way. All this is OK!

I appreciate the recent developments in this thread for the learning opportunity. And it's all thanks to Ivo's good work. I also value his opinions. He's a solid professional with a good ear. I can live with different perspectives and conclusions; they are just a spice of life.
Old 28th February 2013
  #295
Registered User
 
🎧 15 years
All my old preamps were sold after I used Gordon. Bought 4 channels of the Model 2 eight years ago and that is all I have used for studio and stage since.

Folks often seem to get hung up about differences in 'tone'. To me the difference is more about these two things:

1.) Depth. Gordon simply provides more information than standard two dimensional mic amps. It transfers more treble, more midrange, more bass, more powerful dynamics. When a sound HITS it does not 'round' or soften that signal as most standard preamps will. And when a sound is quiet and delicate it resolves all the details with a completely black background.

2.) Consistency. With its remarkable circuitry it will have the exact same tone and response at every gain setting, with any mic or pickup, into any output chain. No chasing sweet spots, trying to balance input gain vs output gain to dial in the best sounding combination as with standard preamps.


At some time or another lots of combinations of microphones & preamps can produce interesting and pleasing tones. But reliably and easily reproducing that in every situation is what distinguishes the Gordon.

My approach was to get the state of the art preamp that would simply get out of the way and always pass the most information possible to the recorder, and then find mics that would work on the sources I was recording. No more hunting mic/preamp combos for 'tone'.

Good to have more comparisons for folks to learn from and to have comments here from serious recording professionals. Yet I am still convinced the only way to make realistic choices that truly hold up is to buy equipment and use it for a while in many different situations.

Steve
Old 28th February 2013 | Show parent
  #296
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rnappi's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by squeegybug ➑️

Good to have more comparisons for folks to learn from and to have comments here from serious recording professionals. Yet I am still convinced the only way to make realistic choices that truly hold up is to buy equipment and use it for a while in many different situations.
Well said, I couldn't agree more.


rich
Old 28th February 2013 | Show parent
  #297
Lives for gear
 
Schaap's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by squeegybug ➑️
Folks often seem to get hung up about differences in 'tone'. To me the difference is more about these two things:

1.) Depth. Gordon simply provides more information than standard two dimensional mic amps. It transfers more treble, more midrange, more bass, more powerful dynamics. When a sound HITS it does not 'round' or soften that signal as most standard preamps will. And when a sound is quiet and delicate it resolves all the details with a completely black background.

2.) Consistency. With its remarkable circuitry it will have the exact same tone and response at every gain setting, with any mic or pickup, into any output chain. No chasing sweet spots, trying to balance input gain vs output gain to dial in the best sounding combination as with standard preamps.
+1! The first thing I noticed was how more 'room' the Gordon picked up, like Gyang said earlier.
So you need a decent room for optimum results but that's pretty obvious
Old 28th February 2013 | Show parent
  #298
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bcgood's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Just to be clear I wasn't trying to knock IVO, I simply asked a question and wanted to make sure that info was available for people that might not know. I guess the reason I wasn't too pumped up to read his opinions is based on things I noticed from him on another thread of the same subject..

Anyways, I have certainly enjoyed many of the great clips that IVO has posted over the years.

-------------------------------------------------------
In other news..

I would actually be more interested to hear a shoot out between the Gordon and the Earthworks 1022 pre amp.
Old 28th February 2013 | Show parent
  #299
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ISedlacek's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcgood ➑️
Just to be clear I wasn't trying to knock IVO, I simply asked a question and wanted to make sure that info was available for people that might not know.
Links to all my activities are clearly mentioned in my signature (I am not acting here anonymously, that would be very easy and is prevailing here), thus everybody can see them all the time ... With all that said, I would suggest to turn the attention back again to the topic ... I have not published any opinions, but just transparent tangible results of some effort ... that I did gladly, enthusiastically and out of a deep interest and I shared them, that's all ...
Old 5th March 2013
  #300
Baz
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🎧 15 years
Did my own testing today with a friend that has a Gordon, and who I just bought an SMP500 from. Some argue that the 500 series model isn't the same (ie "as good") but I find it to be remarkable nonetheless and have been longing to buy it since first hearing it sometime back. I think after our test, he might have even had a bit of sellers remorse

We also threw the (locally made ) Creamer into the mix,not only for some contrast, but for my benefit, as I had made some rather tough comments about this unit last year, while not giving it a fair, more comprehensive trial.

Recorded a rather decent nylon guitar, with my 84 and his M300 and vocals with my 87i and his 87ai. Unfortunately never got around to the ELAM as we ran out of time, so save for some other time

The Gordon is a very very impressive piece and what really surprised me the most is how large, and robust the low end is with this mic amp. I can't say I liked it more than the Forssell, but there's no doubt this rather esoteric piece is the real deal. It has an incredible amount of reach,depth what have you.

I don't think it was a fair field for the Creamer as I doubt Sonic Farms intention was for this product to be in the same category as the other 2 but what really surprised us is how it seemed closer with the output transformer engaged when recording the nylon. I really think this pre will be a great "rock" pre though It really sounded lovely on voice and I'm glad I finally got to hear it's DI on bass. The DI on this is incredible, as often stated by people that have used and own this product.

Fun stuff. I had heard the Gordon once before in a brief shootout but I'm glad I got to run it through some paces in my humble room. I wish I got a chance to record some steel string through, but my friend is extremely generous and has said I can borrow it in the future if need be.









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