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IS there a hardware version of the Abbey Road Presence box?
Old 9th February 2009
  #1
Lives for gear
 
Dirty Halo's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
IS there a hardware version of the Abbey Road Presence box?

I've heard so many people rave about the plug, particularly the simplest one that is literally JUST "presence."

I've may have asked this before, but how hard would it be for someone to make a hardware version of that?

I KNOW plenty o us would buy it!


-Andrews
Old 9th February 2009
  #2
Moderator
 
TonyBelmont's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Halo ➡️
I've heard so many people rave about the plug, particularly the simplest one that is literally JUST "presence."

I've may have asked this before, but how hard would it be for someone to make a hardware version of that?

I KNOW plenty o us would buy it!


-Andrews
It would be very simple to make something like that... But, to make it EXACTLY the same would be more difficult due to the parts availability. It could be done, but would probably require some slight re-engineering.

I could give a more definitive answer if I had the schematic to look at.
Old 10th February 2009 | Show parent
  #3
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Dirty Halo's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyBelmont ➡️
It would be very simple to make something like that... But, to make it EXACTLY the same would be more difficult due to the parts availability. It could be done, but would probably require some slight re-engineering.

I could give a more definitive answer if I had the schematic to look at.

So, what's the magic that makes it so desireable and why hasn't anyone done it?

Also, what is it actually doing?

-andrews
Old 10th February 2009 | Show parent
  #4
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TonyBelmont's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Halo ➡️
So, what's the magic that makes it so desireable and why hasn't anyone done it?

Also, what is it actually doing?

-andrews
I wasn't aware that it was desirable...
Old 10th February 2009 | Show parent
  #5
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Dirty Halo's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyBelmont ➡️
I wasn't aware that it was desirable...
Oh? They are making the Abbey Road plugin of it and everyone seems to rave about it.

How's that not desirable?

-a
Old 10th February 2009
  #6
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
They are emulations, so the hardware already exists.

From the Brilliance Pack manual:

Quote:
Throughout the ‘60s there were a number of small boxes dotted around Abbey Road, which were simply known as ‘Brilliance’ or ‘Presence’ boxes. In this era, engineers were looking for ways of adding presence to their recordings, especially in popular music. Enter the Brilliance boxes: these simple passive equalizers were portable versions of the grey RS127s that were rack-mounted into the studio control room patchbays. They were designed to give Abbey Road recording engineers additionfound on the EMI REDD studio mixing desks of the time.
Old 10th February 2009 | Show parent
  #7
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
If building a hardware eq, the expense is in the case, power supply & gain amplifier, i/o, marketing, shipping, profit margins etc. It would be a bit of a waste to simply dedicate it to a single band eq, with no significant savings.

IMO, most existing hardware eq's offer a brilliance boost - pick one; it's not going to get much cheaper.
Old 10th February 2009 | Show parent
  #8
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Dirty Halo's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stiff ➡️
They are emulations, so the hardware already exists.

From the Brilliance Pack manual:
I would prefer to buy a hardware version, I can't believe someone doesn't make this exactly.

-a
Old 10th February 2009 | Show parent
  #9
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TonyBelmont's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Halo ➡️
How's that not desirable?
I don't see how a 1 band passive EQ with a fixed frequency of 8k would be so desirable that we need an analog version of it re-created. Maybe I'm wrong....

I really don't see a market for it, considering it would probably sell for around $1k/ channel.
Old 10th February 2009 | Show parent
  #10
Gear Addict
 
toolz's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I've built a kind of DIY version, fixed 8k boost only passive inductor based eq, big transformer in, big transformer out.

This works great, and saves a pultec in a mix, the bottom line is if we ever see the hardware versions it will be via Chandler, as they have access to the Abbey Rd archive.

All the EMI stuff was in house with little outside info, so a true DIY version you would need either a box to reverse engineer or the schematic.
Old 10th February 2009 | Show parent
  #11
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Halo ➡️
Oh? They are making the Abbey Road plugin of it and everyone seems to rave about it.

How's that not desirable?

-a
For me it usually works the other way around (if the rave is only here on GS)
Old 10th February 2009 | Show parent
  #12
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doorknocker's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyBelmont ➡️
I don't see how a 1 band passive EQ with a fixed frequency of 8k would be so desirable that we need an analog version of it re-created. Maybe I'm wrong....

I really don't see a market for it, considering it would probably sell for around $1k/ channel.
I agree. The Abbey Road 'Brillance Pack' and the SPL Transient Modulator are maybe the best examples of how plug-ins can 'outperform' hardware. No signal degradation, WAY cheaper price, as many instances as you like, in the case of the SPL there's zero latency....what else could you ask for?

A single hardware channel wouldn't do and so the costs would be a few grand just for say adding some presence to drum tracks, I much prefer to do this ITB though there's surely a place for hardware EQ as well. I couldn't live without my pair of Siemens 295b's.....

EDIT : Now if Chandler could combine the 8k Presence with another design, say a box that has all the 'Brillance Pack' options and EQ points, well THAT could be something for sure.....
Old 10th February 2009 | Show parent
  #13
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
I have an old 8 channel BBC Presence Eq box that is very similar to the abbey roads stuff but with the Addition of low end controls.
Old 10th February 2009 | Show parent
  #14
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toolz's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by redroom ➡️
I have an old 8 channel BBC Presence Eq box that is very similar to the abbey roads stuff but with the Addition of low end controls.
cool, could you take some pix of the inside? and out!
Old 10th February 2009 | Show parent
  #15
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BradM's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
The Presence Box had no power supply and was completely passive. I was just reading about this in the Beatles book the other day. Send me a schematic and I'll put one on the market for $500.

Brad
Old 10th February 2009 | Show parent
  #16
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toolz's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad McGowan ➡️
The Presence Box had no power supply and was completely passive. I was just reading about this in the Beatles book the other day. Send me a schematic and I'll put one on the market for $500.

Brad
The science is in the design, and the choice of Caps used and if/if not transformers are present. Potentially this could be DIY'ed for very little indeed.
Old 10th February 2009 | Show parent
  #17
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BradM's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
It's a Pultec style filter according to the Beatles book. If you wanted to nail the exact sound of the exact Abbey Road box you may be looking at some custom transformer and inductor development. Otherwise the circuit is a very simple passive LC filter (inductor-capacitor) with transformer input and output. You could very easily DIY something that would sound awesome with Cinemag or Sowter transformers and inductors if you aren't concered about nailing the Abbey Roads exact sound. To DIY something similar would cost about $100-$200 depending on how much you spent on switches, iron, and the chassis.

I wouldn't be surprised if the original RS127 box was conceived and built all within the same afternoon.

It still blows my my that we haven't seen inexpensive Chinese Pultec clones yet. Even solid state EQP-1A3 clones...

Brad
Old 11th February 2009 | Show parent
  #18
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by toolz ➡️
cool, could you take some pix of the inside? and out!
When I get a chance I'll take some pics of the front but getting it out of the rack and opening it up is a no no Im afraid.It seems to be a homemade vibe the bbc techs did a lot of this sort of stuff I also have an 8 channel Mic/Line Mini Mixer whihc is full of transformers.Sadly it has a hum buzz problem and my tech is baffled why which is a shame as it sounds amazing.
Old 5th May 2013
  #19
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Halo ➡️
I've heard so many people rave about the plug, particularly the simplest one that is literally JUST "presence."

I've may have asked this before, but how hard would it be for someone to make a hardware version of that?

I KNOW plenty o us would buy it!


-Andrews
here are the original boxes in Abbey Road tech office
Attached Thumbnails
IS there a hardware version of the Abbey Road Presence box?-brilliance-boxes-abbey-road.jpg  
Old 5th May 2013 | Show parent
  #20
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Rolf Ebitsch's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by iLCacciLLo ➡️
here are the original boxes in Abbey Road tech office
Wow,
those ones look splendid.
Thanks for the picture.

Love this little boxes.... as plugins.

R.
Old 6th May 2013
  #21
Deleted 651cf92
Guest
I like the idea of having lots of single band EQs.
I think if you could put one band together for $/£500 you would sell quite a lot of them. As said by someone else, it frees up any unused band for work else where. And it is a cheap way to get an inductor based EQ without having to pay for the make up amp
Old 6th May 2013
  #22
Gear Addict
 
toolz's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
An original EMI stereo presence unit past through my hands two years ago, it was a BRED unit, so broadcast in origin. It had a massive tapped inductor and mustard capacitors and did the presence boost in the feedback of the opamp, so the boost is in parallel, pretty much like a GmL does it.

I used the unit for a year, but then sold it to Toe Rag Studios, a fitting destination
Old 12th May 2013 | Show parent
  #23
Gear Nut
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by doorknocker ➡️
....what else could you ask for?
Hardware. Some of us have no use whatsoever for software. There's no computer in my studio, by choice.

if this thing existed with two or three selectable frequencies (5K, 8K, 12K?) and retailed for under $500 or $600, I'd buy two.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad McGowan ➡️
The Presence Box had no power supply and was completely passive. I was just reading about this in the Beatles book the other day. Send me a schematic and I'll put one on the market for $500
get this man a schematic!

seriously, I've looked for a schematic for this before and come up empty. anyone? a drawing, or a photo of the guts of one?
Old 12th May 2013
  #24
Deleted 651cf92
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by telepathy ➡️
Hardware. Some of us have no use whatsoever for software. There's no computer in my studio, by choice.

if this thing existed with two or three selectable frequencies (5K, 8K, 12K?) and retailed for under $500 or $600, I'd buy two.



get this man a schematic!

seriously, I've looked for a schematic for this before and come up empty. anyone? a drawing, or a photo of the guts of one?
Speak to member PRR over at group DIY, he could probably draw something up in an afternoon,

A bypass with a pad that matched the drop through the eq would be a cool feature.
Old 12th May 2013
  #25
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dbjp's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Might make sense if it was a part of a mic preamp (with line in) rather than a box all on its own. Could be cheaper than other channel strips with extensive EQ features.
Old 13th May 2013
  #26
Gear Addict
 
toolz's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Here's some pics and info from my old EMI unit (Now at ToeRag Studios London)

This has an op-amp based amp, and the filter is in the feedback of that circuit. So the process is in parallel to the program information. So more like a GML in operation, with inductors and caps to rival a Pultec :-)















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