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Mic Preamp for Acoustic Guitar
Old 10th February 2009 | Show parent
  #61
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by doorknocker ➑️
My fave preamp for acoustic guitar is the Chandler LTD-1. It goes well with most mics, the EQ is great though not always neccessary. Recently I even had luck with an AKG 414 B-ULS for acoustic guitar. My fave mic for acoustic guitar in a mix context is the Beyer M201, sometimes the MD-441 too.
i have been using a pair of these through an avalon 2022, with an aea r84 through an electrodyne 710-l with very realistic results on solo acoutic guitar...

Last edited by mercurydime; 10th February 2009 at 09:08 PM.. Reason: my typing sux
Old 10th February 2009 | Show parent
  #62
Lives for gear
 
doorknocker's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mercurydime ➑️
i have been using a pair of these through an avalon 2022, with an aea r84 through an electrodyne 710-l with very realistic results on solo acoutic guitar...
I really believe in the 'hardness factor' theory that Mike Stavrou talks about in his book 'Mixing with your mind'.

Say my Gibson LG-2 acoustic has the typical warmth and body of a great vintage Gibson but also an amazing amount of hi-end. Thanks to the smaller body size there's also zero boom or proximity effect happening. Because of this, a mic like the Coles 4038 can work great but this would be totally different with another guitar.

If a guitar sounds good but too sterile or lacking warmth like say a lot of Takamines do, then a nice condensor like a KM 84 or KM 54 will only bring out that sonic coldness even more. A 57 on the other hand MIGHT be the ticket though because it wil add some rough edges while still letting enough of the taut clarity of the Takamine come through.

if you think about it, that's pretty much the case with any instrument or voice so yes, there is no best only the subjective best for a specific situation.
Old 10th February 2009 | Show parent
  #63
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
^^^and i might add that this is mostly for finger-style playing with a nice lowden guitar...ymmv

of course, you pick the mics and pres that get the job done...

Last edited by mercurydime; 10th February 2009 at 11:55 PM.. Reason: because my typing still sux
Old 16th February 2009 | Show parent
  #64
Gear Maniac
 
Larry Villella's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Being a guitar and microphone collector (& end-user) for about 40 years,
I can tell you all of the above analog front-ends will amply get the job
done if you have two other ingredients - mic placement and gain-staging!

The Shoeps sounds better on my Cedar-Top Ramirez, but the KM-84
sounds better on my Martin or Collings. Tone-Matching is the Crux of it!

Two question needs to be asked:

What is your method of recording?

Point-Source
Matched Pairs of SD (LD?)
Unmatched (1 ea LD / SD).
Decca Tree, Etc., Etc.

What is your Front-End Configuation?

Are you going 'Hybrid' - Valve+Solid State - for the Front-End?

Or is it an ALL FET / ALL VALVE Analog Chain???

Marry the Source to the Mic AND Pre is how they
taught us in the Analog Recording Schools (1960's).

Using your Ears to Find the Sweet Spot being the art of the matter . . .

Cheers!!

Larry Villella, ADK)))
Old 16th February 2009 | Show parent
  #65
Lives for gear
 
camus's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Beg, borrow or steal a Helios Type 69. A 441 into this thing is absolute ****ing heaven, pardon the language.
Old 17th February 2009 | Show parent
  #66
Lives for gear
 
insomnio's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Villella ➑️

Using your Ears to Find the Sweet Spot being the art of the matter . . .
Mic placement and room acoustics are 10x more important than any pre. There are so many ways to screw everything up with great gear!!!

I've been trying to mix a bad recorded record for weeks now. Is a nightmare!!! All was tracked with API, Avalon and Focusrite Red hardware, and Telefunken and Brauner mics in a great room with great musicians. GO FIGURE. I'll trade those tracks any day for some using all Behringer gear but recorded by an engineer with ears.
Old 18th February 2009 | Show parent
  #67
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Studio Addict ➑️
I previously wrote:

"By the end of this thread (like in every other "what's best" thread), every known mic and pre will be mentioned, so that obviously means there is no "right" or "best" one. Just turn the knobs til it sounds good and move on."

So here, original poster, are the pieces you should use culled from this thread:


PRES:

Great River MP2NV
NPNG DMP 2NW
X2 Purple Biz MK
Dav BG
610
Chandler LTD-1
GML
neve 1073 (or 84)
Chandler TG2
Pacifica
Prism Orpheus
John Hardy
API
Avalon 737
Buzz Audio MA2.2 TX
Aurora Audio GTQ2 mkII
Focusrite ISA430 Producer Pack
CraneSong Flamingo
Grace Design M201
Focusrite Red 6
Qes Labs Preq-1
Millennia HV-3D
FM Acoustics M1
Forssell SMP-2
Audio Upgrades High Speed
V76
Chandler Germ

MICS:

MFG KM69 Pair
Royer SF12
Josephson C42 MP
AT 4050
Oktava 012
JM-130
AKG 414 B-ULS
Beyer M201
MD-441
KM84
neumann u87
telefunken u47
avalon 737
Beyer Dynamic MC930
KM140
Neumann KM54
C460b
AT4051
Schoeps
Km140
AKG C451
KM184
AT 4033
U67
tlm 103

GREAT POST ! Point well taken, LOL>>>> stike
Old 18th February 2009 | Show parent
  #68
ljt
Gear Head
 
🎧 15 years
I used a Pendulum SPS-1 (direct from a Baggs L6) and a Schoeps CMC6 MK4 on this recording and I think it turned out OK. However, the guitar (Olson SJ) makes a huge difference too

YouTube - ljtowle's Channel

(I think Walking Man will give you a good feel for the sound I'm trying to get).

LJT
Old 18th February 2009 | Show parent
  #69
Gear Guru
 
AllAboutTone's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Elixir
Old 18th February 2009 | Show parent
  #70
Lives for gear
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
I can't believe no one has mentioned the Helios Type 69...to me, it's just the ****e on acoustics...the EQ is subtle and and can just be the shiz...

I'm counting the days until the Type 69 500 series comes out...I'm ALLLLLL over it.
Old 18th February 2009 | Show parent
  #71
Lives for gear
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by camus ➑️
Beg, borrow or steal a Helios Type 69. A 441 into this thing is absolute ****ing heaven, pardon the language.
Oops...missed this one...
Old 18th February 2009 | Show parent
  #72
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
excellent mic!!!

if you have no price limit and you can find one of the vintage neumann tlm 170 rmt mics you'll be set for life with your acoustic guitars...if you have any jumbos around even better..if you like color throw that through an sl610...if not go with a supre and add an mk012 at the 12th fret...unbelievable tone. go for a hummingbird or a j185 if you can
Old 3rd March 2009 | Show parent
  #73
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
a schoeps 221b into a mercury m72 is breathtaking
I usually run it through a mercury eq-h1 also which is an incredible acoustic guitar eq
that thing can make a 4038 on acoustic sound anyway you want it, literally but thats gettin a little off topic
Old 15th March 2009 | Show parent
  #74
Lives for gear
 
rkopald's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
So anybody have any experience with the Mercenary Audio SDCs or the Josephson C42s? I'd really like to get a matched pair. Not absolutely necessary, but I could definitely use em for Blumlein, ORTF, blah blah..
I
Old 15th March 2009 | Show parent
  #75
70% Coffee, 30% Beer
 
Doc Mixwell's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkopald ➑️
So anybody have any experience with the Mercenary Audio SDCs or the Josephson C42s? I'd really like to get a matched pair. Not absolutely necessary, but I could definitely use em for Blumlein, ORTF, blah blah..
I
Yea, they are much different. The KM69's are "sexier" Whatever that means...

They have more "silk" and warmth than the C42's. They have a more highlighting top octave and definitely more "love" on the bottom. The C42's are excellent microphones in my experience though. The KM69 is more characterful overall and if your applications warrant a microphone with a "full bodied flavor", I think you will be well served by a pair of MFG KM69's. My best advice would be to try both and return the losers.
Old 16th March 2009 | Show parent
  #76
Lives for gear
 
rkopald's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roc Mixwell ➑️
Yea, they are much different. The KM69's are "sexier" Whatever that means...

They have more "silk" and warmth than the C42's. They have a more highlighting top octave and definitely more "love" on the bottom. The C42's are excellent microphones in my experience though. The KM69 is more characterful overall and if your applications warrant a microphone with a "full bodied flavor", I think you will be well served by a pair of MFG KM69's. My best advice would be to try both and return the losers.
At this point any decent mic through a decent pre will get the job done. I just want to continue building my meager studio with keeper gear. I'm thinking the above mics through a UA preamp or a Portico 5012.. something with good slew rates for the transients produced by acoustic guitar, and yet with some warmth. (I like the audio examples on Vintage king for the different preamps). Acoustic guitar is a tricky beast. So many different ways to mic it up, depending on the need.
I'm still reading up on transfomers, etc. Sooo much to learn. Thanks for the feedback.
Old 15th November 2009 | Show parent
  #77
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
On acoustic KM54 is mighty, no matter what pre you use. I recently used M201 on acoustic and i'm very imprested.

KM84 + GR what a magic
Old 17th November 2009 | Show parent
  #78
Gear Maniac
 
bewareofdogs's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I would like to suggest a stereo kit from DPA, the 3511,
I had the chance to use it with the QES Labs SMP-2 preamp, ORTF technique.
They reached what I call for jaw-dropping state.
Old 17th November 2009 | Show parent
  #79
Lives for gear
 
Gretschman's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Depends

It depends on the player and instrument , but , I like two Gefell CMV582 mic's
running through a Pendulum Audio tube pre .

Very musical .
Old 17th November 2009 | Show parent
  #80
Gear Maniac
 
Remy Leloup's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Adam Brass is absolutely correct

Mercenary audio 69 with Buzz audio MP A 2.2 or Great River

A pair of KM 84 with a DRS 2 Phoenix audio for a vintage touch


However, an awesome player and Great AC guitar is still my main combination for THAT sound
Old 17th November 2009 | Show parent
  #81
Gear Maniac
 
Chunky But Funky's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Better Guitar?

Does anyone else find it strange we are recommending $6,000 to $10,000 signal chains to record a $250 guitar with plywood sides and back? I guess my suggestion would be to buy a used $2,000 to $3,000 acoustic (Gibson, Martin, Collings, Bourgeois, Huss & Dalton...etc) and mic it with Josephson C42's or DPA 4090's or even AT Pro 37's (on the cheap) through John Hardy pre's. My 2 cents...and probably worth about that!

Doug
Old 17th November 2009 | Show parent
  #82
Gear Guru
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chunky But Funky ➑️
Does anyone else find it strange we are recommending $6,000 to $10,000 signal chains to record a $250 guitar with plywood sides and back? Doug
I've got some cheapo guitars that regularly beat out big name guitars. Wood is wood. Sometimes you get good wood in cheapos, sometimes poor woods in pricy guitars.

A name guarantees nothing. Instruments are individual items.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day. My $180 cheapo Parlor guitar records beautifully, IF I use my top notch mic's and preamps.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades
Old 17th November 2009 | Show parent
  #83
Gear Maniac
 
Chunky But Funky's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams ➑️
I've got some cheapo guitars that regularly beat out big name guitars. Wood is wood. Sometimes you get good wood in cheapos, sometimes poor woods in pricy guitars.

A name guarantees nothing. Instruments are individual items.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day. My $180 cheapo Parlor guitar records beautifully, IF I use my top notch mic's and preamps.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades
I'm not arguing with you Jim, I'm really not! (I don't have the credentials ) But, I've never used the words good wood and plywood in the same sentence. Some of the old blues guys would disagree, I'm sure. Even Ernie Hawkins, disciple of the late Rev. Gary Davis, just had a custom Collings built. I was simply stating to fix it at the source, you might need to consider the source.

If price is really no limit, then why not consider that as well. Would Andy McKee sound better on an Epiphone than I do on my Bourgeois...no question. I play on a worship team at a large church in Pittsburgh. There are 9 or 10 worship teams on 4 campuses. That's about 20 guitarist players each with several guitars covering the entire price spectrum. All are good players. The only guitar that comes close to the sound of my Bourgeois is a McPherson. Are they better in ALL situations...no. Are they better in most situations...probably. I'm just following the principle that the chain is only as strong as it's weakest link. If the original poster is mixing a strummed acoustic in the background of a dense mix, none of these suggestions will make any difference when the end user hears it on their ipod earbuds.

Doug
Old 18th November 2009 | Show parent
  #84
Lives for gear
 
nosebleedaudio's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Find an OLD Gibson and try it, have heard from several GOOD engineers that the old Gibsons record better than those $$$ Martins, what it sounds like in a room and how it sounds recorded is two different things.
Old 18th November 2009 | Show parent
  #85
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chunky But Funky ➑️
Does anyone else find it strange we are recommending $6,000 to $10,000 signal chains to record a $250 guitar with plywood sides and back? I guess my suggestion would be to buy a used $2,000 to $3,000 acoustic (Gibson, Martin, Collings, Bourgeois, Huss & Dalton...etc) and mic it with Josephson C42's or DPA 4090's or even AT Pro 37's (on the cheap) through John Hardy pre's. My 2 cents...and probably worth about that!

Doug
+1000, great suggestion. There is no recording gear at any price that will produce a better sound than the sound of a well recorded quality guitar. And plywood is good. good for not worrying about humidification issues, good for live feedback resistance, and good for when you don't have a case. But not good for producing tone via vibration.
Old 18th November 2009 | Show parent
  #86
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
lol. What colour do you guys think I should paint the houses in this painting I'm working on?
Old 18th November 2009 | Show parent
  #87
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Oh, and I'm recording this old 60's steel string, strung with nylons which has plywood body.....after going through quite a few 'respectable' options.......never knock the tool for the job until you know it won't work......depends on the desired outcome, does it not?
Old 19th November 2009 | Show parent
  #88
Gear Guru
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chunky But Funky ➑️
I'm not arguing with you Jim, I'm really not! (I don't have the credentials ) But, I've never used the words good wood and plywood in the same sentence. Some of the old blues guys would disagree, I'm sure. Even Ernie Hawkins, disciple of the late Rev. Gary Davis, just had a custom Collings built. I was simply stating to fix it at the source, you might need to consider the source.

If price is really no limit, then why not consider that as well. Would Andy McKee sound better on an Epiphone than I do on my Bourgeois...no question. I play on a worship team at a large church in Pittsburgh. There are 9 or 10 worship teams on 4 campuses. That's about 20 guitarist players each with several guitars covering the entire price spectrum. All are good players. The only guitar that comes close to the sound of my Bourgeois is a McPherson. Are they better in ALL situations...no. Are they better in most situations...probably. I'm just following the principle that the chain is only as strong as it's weakest link. If the original poster is mixing a strummed acoustic in the background of a dense mix, none of these suggestions will make any difference when the end user hears it on their ipod earbuds.

Doug
Sure, I'd love a certain $12,000 Santa Cruz, but not this week. Price is an object.
However, my 1967 Gibson Trini Lopez Standard is a pretty good blues guitar, even though like all the ES335 series, it is a plywood guitar.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades
Old 19th November 2009 | Show parent
  #89
Lives for gear
 
Teddy Ray's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I would heartily suggest as a no compromise option, the Gefell Mk221 with josephson c617 bodies and the Pendulum MDP-1 preamp.

OR a pair of coles https://gearspace.com/board/3920562-post17.html and the AEA ribbon pre..
Old 23rd November 2009 | Show parent
  #90
Lives for gear
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
So Many Great Combinations

Mics: Schoeps 221b, Neumann KM54, KM64, KM84, U67, U47

Preamps: lots of good preamps, but I miss not owning a pair of Helios for acoustic guitars. They just had a great sound.
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