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m149 vs rode k2 !!!! ( nice test )
Old 21st April 2010 | Show parent
  #61
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by midnightsun ➡️
I had one M149 and my wife knew I really liked it so she recently picked up a matched pair of 75 Anniversary M149s at a great price (eBay) for my birthday. I have been having a great time doing stereo recordings of everything I can think of. Using the three to record drums in a Glyn Johns setup yields very nice results.
Now that you told us - better take good care of her! ;-)
Old 21st April 2010 | Show parent
  #62
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Mark D.'s Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by tapehiss ➡️
same capsule, but without the transformer. same for the
m147/m150, same capsules, but without the transformer.
bummer that they just didn't keep the designs the same.
What's interesting is the incredible smoothness it imparts despite it lacking the transformer,
of the original. An affirming sign that transformers are not always that key ingredient many
often think they are in giving it smoothness. Just plain great capsule design. Evident in the
TLM103 in its own way. Asmany may find it 'too bright' what is cool is they'd got it without
use of electronics, but purely by superior capsule designs. That's often a better way to go.
Old 21st April 2010 | Show parent
  #63
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RKrizman's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ari-M. ➡️
this entire test is non-sense....

is this a debate on which mic is "better"

the guy talking seems a bit enthusiastic and biased about rode products
Yeah, and the ironic thing is that in his test the M149 sounds so much better.

-R
Old 21st April 2010 | Show parent
  #64
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RKrizman's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by tapehiss ➡️
same capsule, but without the transformer.


same for the m147/m150, same capsules, but without the transformer.

kinda bummer that they just didn't keep the designs the same..... they had to modernize them......

but still, the 149/150 are still worthy mics.
So then the TLM 49 is a cheaper solid-state version of the same concept?

-R
Old 21st April 2010 | Show parent
  #65
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pasarski's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by tapehiss ➡️
same capsule, but without the transformer.


same for the m147/m150, same capsules, but without the transformer.

kinda bummer that they just didn't keep the designs the same..... they had to modernize them......

but still, the 149/150 are still worthy mics.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RKrizman ➡️
So then the TLM 49 is a cheaper solid-state version of the same concept?

-R
I can't comment the sound difference of these two, haven't used them. But technically they're closer to each other than one might think. M149 is not a "pure" tube mic, it's a combination of a FET and a tube amp. TLM49 is a FET mic trying to emulate "the tube sound". Same type of capsule, but in TLM49 single sided, cardioid only.
Old 21st April 2010 | Show parent
  #66
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Nahuel's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by RKrizman ➡️
So then the TLM 49 is a cheaper solid-state version of the same concept?

-R
Nope, TLM's are transformless/tubeless M's are tube mics.
Old 21st April 2010 | Show parent
  #67
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by lpuma ➡️
Nope, TLM's are transformless/tubeless M's are tube mics.
In M's a tube gives 10db's of gain, rest is from a transformerless output stage, they're hybrids.
Old 21st April 2010 | Show parent
  #68
Fhl
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🎧 10 years
I own a K2, never tried the m149, and in this case the latter is alot better!

I love my K2, but it sounds a bit too harsh. Give it a NOS 6922, however, and you're good to go. I haven't tried it, but some use a pencil to redirect the worst sibilance.
Old 21st April 2010 | Show parent
  #69
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by pasarski ➡️
In M's a tube gives 10db's of gain, rest is from a transformerless output stage, they're hybrids.
I know, I got one, a 147, the tube is in the alim box, but thanks.

edit: it's not in the alim box, the tube is in the mic.
Old 21st April 2010 | Show parent
  #70
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by lpuma ➡️
I know, I got one, a 147, the tube is in the alim box, but thanks.

That's a good sounding mic you have. Just heard a record a friend did with M147, which sounded fabulous!
Old 21st April 2010 | Show parent
  #71
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
The M149 is the clear winner. Much more presence. But I would like to save alot more for presents!
But Rode makes a great mic for the money! Beats out most in it's price range. never thought of a TLM103 as being too bright.
Prone to plosives is how I would classify it.
Seems like too bright is the thing to slam these days.
Because of the cheap knock-offs from China.
What I like to point out is many of the most revered vintage mic's are quite bright. Bright is not always a bad thing when done right.
Old 21st April 2010 | Show parent
  #72
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by lpuma ➡️
I know, I got one, a 147, the tube is in the alim box, but thanks.
Are you sure about that? According to Neumann the 147 electronics is the same like the 149 one except for a resistor for decreasing the output level that many users of the 149 claimed being too high.
Old 21st April 2010 | Show parent
  #73
KAB
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
m149, no contest whatsoever to my ears. Different leagues entirely.
Old 21st April 2010 | Show parent
  #74
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Nahuel's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by didier.brest ➡️
Are you sure about that? According to Neumann the 147 electronics is the same like the 149 one except for a resistor for decreasing the output level that many users of the 149 claimed being too high.
no, in fact I'm not, I never tried to open it but I've been told so by the dude that sold me the mic, might be wrong info since he's not a tech guy, you seem more informed than I am so I'll trust you.

Edit: you was right, that discussion made me open my mic, I tried the alim first: no tube, it's inside the mic, I was suprised about it small size (the mic itself is rather small).
Old 21st April 2010 | Show parent
  #75
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🎧 10 years
About the test, crazy proximity effect. Good for VO, but makes it a little hard to evaluate the mics. For a modern VO sound, I think K2 sounded better. K2 does seem to lack mid definition, and is scooped like in every other K2 recording I've heard. Could imagine M149 outperform it in many tasks where you need a beefy, defined mid range and controlled top. But with that proximity effect and that voice I didn't like it, sounds sterile and cold.
Old 21st April 2010 | Show parent
  #76
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vernier's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Long time since it's been mentioned . .

Neumann M149 . . I wonder, anyone currently using this mic?
Old 22nd April 2010 | Show parent
  #77
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midnightsun's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark D. ➡️
What's interesting is the incredible smoothness it imparts despite it lacking
the transformer, of the original. A sign, possibly, that transformers are not
always the key ingredient many sight them to be, to giving it smoothness.
Just plain great capsule design. Evident in the TLM103 in its own way. As
many may find it 'too bright' what's cool is they'd got that without use of
transformers.
Simply having a "transformer" in the signal path doesn't say anything about the quality of the end tone. Firstly, some transformers are great and others are crap.
Old 22nd April 2010 | Show parent
  #78
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RKrizman's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by lpuma ➡️
Nope, TLM's are transformless/tubeless M's are tube mics.
So that's what I said. The TLM 49 is solid state, the M149 is tube.

-R
Old 22nd April 2010 | Show parent
  #79
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Mark D.'s Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by midnightsun ➡️
Simply having a "transformer" in the signal path doesn't say anything about the quality of the end tone.
I agree. My mistake, I meant to say 'electronics' and not 'transformers'. Fixed.
Old 22nd April 2010 | Show parent
  #80
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Nahuel's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by RKrizman ➡️
So that's what I said. The TLM 49 is solid state, the M149 is tube.

-R
right, I thought you said fet not solid state, my bad.
Old 22nd April 2010 | Show parent
  #81
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2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by pasarski ➡️
I can't comment the sound difference of these two, haven't used them. But technically they're closer to each other than one might think. M149 is not a "pure" tube mic, it's a combination of a FET and a tube amp. TLM49 is a FET mic trying to emulate "the tube sound". Same type of capsule, but in TLM49 single sided, cardioid only.

If the TLM49 was a fet mic it would pretty much be a u47fet, however, it does not sound like one.

it does use the k47, but no fet in this mic if I understand correctly.

some people seem to think all LDC's without tubes are FET.
Old 22nd April 2010 | Show parent
  #82
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by tapehiss ➡️
If the TLM49 was a fet mic it would pretty much be a u47fet, however, it does not sound like one.

it does use the k47, but no fet in this mic if I understand correctly.

some people seem to think all LDC's without tubes are FET.
I think it has a FET stage.
All Aspects of Neumann Products - Re: Neumann TLM49
Old 22nd April 2010 | Show parent
  #83
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by tapehiss ➡️
some people seem to think all LDC's without tubes are FET.
For example, which mic is without transformer and without FET ?

Edit: Oh sorry, I did not read well your statement. Of course a mic can be without tube and have a transformer, hence not being a FET mic. Example: the Audio-Technica AT4047.
Old 22nd April 2010 | Show parent
  #84
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by didier.brest ➡️
For example, which mic is without transformer and without FET ?
M149 is transformerless (NO TRANSFORMER)-- I have had one for years and think they are great mics. Someone earlier stated that they seemed neutral. Statements about tone often boil down to subjective impressions. IMHO the M149 is far from neutral and lends a smoothness like no other LDC or LDC tube mic I own. My only complaint with the M149 is that it is a very "hot" mic and I often have to pad the line to the preamp if I am micing high spl. BTW, the I have been very pleased with the results using the M149 on acoustic instruments, electric & bass cabs, drums, especially, sitting in front of the kick drum. The shock mounts on Neumann LDC are my favorites in terms of stability/security and versatility.

All said, if I were going to make a tube mic purchase I would strongly consider a Korby KAT with multiple capsules-- now we are talking many flavors and colors for just a bit more money. (no intention of derailing the Rode/Neumann comparison/contrast thread) It is very easy to fall in love with an M149 for a long long time. I have never net a Rode so I have no opinion. Beauty is in the ear of the beholder.
Old 22nd April 2010 | Show parent
  #85
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pasarski's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by midnightsun ➡️
M149 is transformerless (NO TRANSFORMER)
Yes, but it has a FET output stage. The tube gives 10db before it.
Old 22nd April 2010 | Show parent
  #86
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Nahuel's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by pasarski ➡️
Yes, but it has a FET output stage. The tube gives 10db before it.
Pasarki is right, Fet is a transistor, it's different from a transformer

transistors:



transfomer:



so yea the M series use FET and tube but no transformer

the tlm series use FET but no Valve and no tansformers

I was myself a bit confused about all this (being a nut at electronics), at least I learned a couple of definition, lol
Old 22nd April 2010 | Show parent
  #87
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pasarski's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by didier.brest ➡️
For example, which mic is without transformer and without FET ?

Edit: Oh sorry, I did not read well your statement. Of course a mic can be without tube and have a transformer, hence not being a FET mic. Example: the Audio-Technica AT4047.
It's confusing cause AT4047 is advertised to have "..sonic characteristics reminiscent of early FET studio microphones...". And it's often called a FET mic. But you're probably right that there's no actual FET in it. Its surface mount, chip based mic, and who the hell knows what's in those.

This goes very off-topic, sorry OP and thanks for the test!
Old 22nd April 2010 | Show parent
  #88
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🎧 10 years
The AT4047 has a transformer. I understood that a FET microphone is a microphone where the transformer is replaced by a circuit including a FET but I may be wrong. I found this definition of a channel FET microphone:

Quote:
A microphone in which a membrane is used as the gate to a field-effect transistor (FET) located just below it, and motion of the membrane modulates the current between the source and drain of the transistor.
This definition seems in agreement with this thread . So the FET would be rather used in the first stage of the mic electronics ? Then the FET microphone would be indeed the alternative to the valve microphone for a condenser microphone ? Is there a FET also in the output stage that plays the role of an impedance transformer ? Or is this role also played by the FET just behind the cap ?

From Neumann site:

Quote:
The TLM 170 R was the first microphone to use the successful fet 100 technology. Along with a balanced, transformerless output stage it features extremely low self-noise and an impressive dynamic range.
So it seems that the FET microphone technology relates also to the removal of the output transformer...But it's still unclear whether there is or not a FET in the output stage.
Old 22nd April 2010 | Show parent
  #89
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pasarski's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by didier.brest ➡️
The AT4047 has a transformer. I understood that a FET microphone is a microphone where the transformer is replaced by a circuit including a FET but I may be wrong. I found this definition of a channel FET microphone:

This definition seems in agreement with this thread . So the FET would be rather used in the first stage of the mic electronics ? Then the FET microphone would be indeed the alternative to the valve microphone for a condenser microphone ? Is there a FET also in the output stage that plays the role of an impedance transformer ? Or is this role also played by the FET just behind the cap ?

From Neumann site:

So it seems that the FET microphone technology relates also to the removal of the output transformer...But it's still unclear whether there is or not a FET in the output stage.
I'm not an expert but I give it a try...

FET acts little bit like a tube. Drain is like the anode of tube, source is like cathode and gate is like grid. Most often FET's are used in mics as a 1st stage amplifier, followed by other transistors. They can do the job of a transformer (change impedance), like can tubes also. Some tube mics have two tubes, first one amplifying, second one converting impedance. No need for a transformer.

To get closer to topic, Neumann M mics have a tube that amplifies just a little (and gives tube coloration?), it's then followed by a transformerless FET output stage, what ever that is. Even if I had a M mic, I wouldn't be able to study it very well because of the integrated circuits. That's why some don't concider these mic's as a "real tube mics". I don't care, I think they sound good, (not in this test though).

Hope I wasn't wrong too much, I'm not a mic tech.
Old 22nd April 2010 | Show parent
  #90
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2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by pasarski ➡️

OKay, thats good to know.

I wasn't aware that there was a FET stage.
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