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Let's throw some mics on a steinway
Old 30th June 2005
  #1
Here for the gear
 
🎧 15 years
Let's throw some mics on a steinway

alright,
finally got some new toys in the pocket and I'm goin to record a steinway grand next wednesday.
obviously I already have a setup in the back of my head, but I'm very interested in any suggestions (mics, placement, pres, eqs, comps...)

here's some stuff that I have available:
mics: 2xR84, 2xU87, 2xKM84, Elam251, R121
pres: 2x512c, TG2, 1073
eqs: massivo, 550b, 560, 1073
comps: C2, distressor, 1176LN, LA2A

cheers...
Old 30th June 2005
  #2
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
My usual setup for piano is a pair of SDCs (DPA/B&K 4011 or Schoeps CMC6 being my fav, but KM84 have worked) in an x-y above and slightly behind the hammers usually centered above middle c and a LDC (M49, U47, FET47 or 87)above the bass strings about 3/4 of the length of the instrument. I always need to move em around a bit till I'm happy with the sound. I never compress or eq piano on the way in. Usually SSL or Neve pres.

HTH.
Old 30th June 2005 | Show parent
  #3
Moderator
 
Lindell's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Here is what I did on a 5,1 session I tracked. 3xU87.... Remove the one in the middle and pull 'em together a notch, woila - great stereo recording.
Attached Thumbnails
Let's throw some mics on a steinway-lindell-piano-rec.jpg  
Old 30th June 2005 | Show parent
  #4
Here for the gear
 
🎧 15 years
I second the DPA's.

I have 130V omni's and cardiod's.
(I obviously have to use the DPA 130V pre's. They are very neutral and clean.)

With the cardiods I am in love with the ORTF setting.
With lots of other instruments in the mix slightly behind the
hammers pointing at them. (Traditional rhythmic style)
For solopiano looking down along and just inside the lid gives a more "natural" sound.

With the omni's like 3' apart and looking in 1' above the frame.
Sometimes also placed behind and looking at the hammers.
Never closer than 1/2' to any soundsource. I sense something happening
round that distance with "room".

The cardiods are more warm-sounding.
The omnis are wonderfully open in the top.

I have tried other (not all!!!!!) mics,
but always had to hear that the DPA's sit better
in the mix even if others sounded more friendly at first.

I use my TubeTech multiband without compressing as level fine-tuner
(since the DPA pre's go in 10 (HMA5000) or 20dB(HMA4000) steps)
before entering my DAD2402 converter.

That sort of leaves the outcome up to the pianist.


brg
Kim Holst
DK
Old 30th June 2005 | Show parent
  #5
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
which steinway?
Old 30th June 2005 | Show parent
  #6
Here for the gear
 
🎧 15 years
a Steinway D... heh
Old 30th June 2005
  #7
Lives for gear
 
nosebleedaudio's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeBurne
alright,
finally got some new toys in the pocket and I'm goin to record a steinway grand next wednesday.
obviously I already have a setup in the back of my head, but I'm very interested in any suggestions (mics, placement, pres, eqs, comps...)

here's some stuff that I have available:
mics: 2xR84, 2xU87, 2xKM84, Elam251, R121
pres: 2x512c, TG2, 1073
eqs: massivo, 550b, 560, 1073
comps: C2, distressor, 1176LN, LA2A

cheers...
As for Mic Pres: Bryston BMP-2 sounds wonderful on Piano, No compression, Mics; the best small diaphragm mics you have available. DPA, Schoep's,and even a pair of AT4051's don't sound bad at all...This would be a good starting point..
Old 30th June 2005
  #8
Lives for gear
 
jpupo74's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeBurne
comps: 1176LN, LA2A
NO PLIZ!

What are you gonna need for your music?
What Style? Classic?
What do you need? Overall color? More definition? Hammers?

Please specify an I think we could help you a better way.

Try using very clear gear!

GML, Grace, DPA micΒ΄s, Schoeps, Earthworks...

PUPO
Old 30th June 2005
  #9
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
I normally use a set of Avenson omnis in ORTF outside the lid pointing at the soundholes. This gives you a very warm, natural sound. I still can't get myself to really like the sound of a close miked piano.
I'm not a huge Steinway fan. I prefer a romantic, warm and "bell-like" piano sound over the sharp Steinways. For that reason I've a Bluthner grand. because its tone is so thick and warm it takes close miking rather well. But the Steinways have this stringy thing about them that makes them a bit sharp when miking from a short distance. I like some of the older Hamburg Steinways a bit better though.
But try ORTF first and if it doesn't work, try closemiking it.
Old 30th June 2005 | Show parent
  #10
Gear Guru
 
Drumsound's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
What type of music are you doing? Is this solo piano or with an ensemble? What type of ensemble? Anything you have can work for certain things.
Old 30th June 2005
  #11
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
I like a good tube mic set to omni outside of the lid as well. Gives you a nice full jazz sound. It's only mono, but in a jazz setting it really seems to fit well.
Old 30th June 2005 | Show parent
  #12
Lives for gear
 
lowswing's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
accidently i'm recording now a pop/jazz album with a grand piano on almost every song and each song needs different set-up.
here are three examples, but i can report more as the project continue:
Jazzy song, drums and bass tracked together in the same room:
lid almost close ,avenson pair in ortf left on looks at hammers the other more to the bass strings.
harder sound, a song with a bit cuban feel:
2 km54 xy a bit higher than middle C + u87 on bass strings.
piano based ballad and solo piano:
lid off, two avensons looking at strings ca 20 cm above string dividing the piano in 3.
pres used are mostly telefunken v676, cadac g268 and great river.
Old 1st July 2005 | Show parent
  #13
Moderator
 
jayfrigo's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I've had good luck with a variety of mics on piano (Yamaha C7 and Steinway B most often, but not always). Schoeps and Earthworks QTC-1s have provided very natural sounds, while KM 184s have worked for pop/rock. U87s are always a safe bet, and I had a great sounding piano recording with a pair of TLM170s. I've even mixed up the techniques with the neutral sounding pair of QTC-1s left and right and a U87 in the middle, a bit closer, filling in the center. You get the natural piano sound but can add a bit of solidity to the center, and mix in a little bit of pop sensibility to a more traditional sound, without losing the character of the traditional sound altogether.
Old 1st July 2005 | Show parent
  #14
Here for the gear
 
🎧 15 years
OK, let's get a bit more specific.

I'm recording a mid tempo pop rock tune with some british attitude.
so it ain't classical and it it ain't jazz.
maybe not a "as dirty as it can be" mono rock'n roll piano,
but definately NOT clean.

I like the sound of those bright and compressed pianos you can hear on many british productions.
maybe I'm not goin to compress on the way in, but definately later on.
so any suggestions on compression considering that style are appreciated.
Old 1st July 2005 | Show parent
  #15
Lives for gear
 
The Alamo's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I'm guessing you have the piano in a separate room.
I only do mixing now, but I'm always baffled when I get piano tracks in that were recorded with a pair of AKG C12A (not C12), a la Allen Sides.

(Remember) The Alamo
Old 1st July 2005 | Show parent
  #16
member no 666
 
Fletcher's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I've been a fan of the Avenson's over the piano with a stereo ribbon [R-88; SF-12/24] off the side of the instrument... get the 3 mics [4 channels] to work in mono and it's all good.
Old 1st July 2005 | Show parent
  #17
Lives for gear
 
lowswing's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeBurne
OK, let's get a bit more specific.

I'm recording a mid tempo pop rock tune with some british attitude.
so it ain't classical and it it ain't jazz.
maybe not a "as dirty as it can be" mono rock'n roll piano,
but definately NOT clean.

I like the sound of those bright and compressed pianos you can hear on many british productions.
maybe I'm not goin to compress on the way in, but definately later on.
so any suggestions on compression considering that style are appreciated.
check this out:
md421-left 57-right in ortf 10cm above and away of the hammers hammers through 1073 with 2-3db of the high band to the 57 than ssl compressor taking ca. 5db fast attack (not the fastest) and fast release to tape. honky dory
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