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Vocal tracking question...
Old 4th February 2009
  #1
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Vocal tracking question...

Not sure where to put this thread but I'm using High End theory cause I'm using a TLM - 49 into a P1>525c>BLA converters.

To the question...

Not to toot my own horn but I can sing really good. I can sing anything from any singer and be on pitch. listen if you doubt me ....Jeffrey Violet Kai on MySpace Music - Free Streaming MP3s, Pictures & Music Videos

The problem I'm having is during tracking. When I'm recording I can not do one take that doesn't require melodyne. I'm always flat and sometimes sharp. But when I sing live in front of people I'm dead on, I've heard many recordings of me singing live and I'm spot on.

What is the tradition route of tracking vocals for the vocalist? I'm using head phones and I've tryed to cup both ears with the headphones and get a balance in the mix so I can hear my voice dry and with reverb and the mix its self. And I also tryed to let one ear or both partial ears open to the tracking room. Anyone have any thoughts?
Old 4th February 2009
  #2
Gear Addict
 
Old Cane's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by violet ➡️
Not sure where to put this thread but I'm using High End theory cause I'm using a TLM - 49 into a P1>525c>BLA converters.

To the question...

Not to toot my own horn but I can sing really good. I can sing anything from any singer and be on pitch. listen if you doubt me ....Jeffrey Violet Kai on MySpace Music - Free Streaming MP3s, Pictures & Music Videos

The problem I'm having is during tracking. When I'm recording I can not do one take that doesn't require melodyne. I'm always flat and sometimes sharp. But when I sing live in front of people I'm dead on, I've heard many recordings of me singing live and I'm spot on.

What is the tradition route of tracking vocals for the vocalist? I'm using head phones and I've tryed to cup both ears with the headphones and get a balance in the mix so I can hear my voice dry and with reverb and the mix its self. And I also tryed to let one ear or both partial ears open to the tracking room. Anyone have any thoughts?
Is this really meant to be funny or is it just me?

I guess if you're serious then try either with one ear off of without any headphones and just use the monitors. I'm dead on live too but there is probably beer involved.
Old 4th February 2009
  #3
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
I have a smilar dilemma...in my home studio, i think i am not able to monitor myself correctly through my headphones, somehow i am not as comfortable as I am singing live.
Old 4th February 2009 | Show parent
  #4
Lives for gear
 
mdjice's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
you could try tracking in the CR without cans , using Avantones or auratones at low volume. It does the trick for me sometimes, I think Sade did the same thing if I'm not mistaking .
Old 4th February 2009 | Show parent
  #5
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
R U sure you are monitoring your voice only thru one channel when tracking? If you are monitoring the recording channel (DAW i presume) and thru your monitor controller ( big knob, mind print...) @ the same time you´ll get phasing which makes that "dead on" singing a bit difficult. Just an idea.. but you´ve propably checked this already.
Old 4th February 2009 | Show parent
  #6
Gear Maniac
 
xhavepatiencex's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I have the same problem, when I am not being recorded I play everything perfectly... I think something is wrong with my mics or something.
Old 4th February 2009 | Show parent
  #7
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Old Cane's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by xhavepatiencex ➡️
I have the same problem, when I am not being recorded I play everything perfectly... I think something is wrong with my mics or something.
Trust me, it's in the converters. The funny thing is the voices in my head all sound perfect.
Old 4th February 2009 | Show parent
  #8
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Yes, this is a serious question and a truthful problem. I'm not lying for the invitation of some jerk to come on and tell me its not a real problem.

As far as bussing to tracks, yes I track to an additional aux for to hear myself better in the mix and then buss to another aux to get a faint reverb. I don't think there is any phase issues going on in my headphones with my voice.
Old 4th February 2009 | Show parent
  #9
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
If your not going to be helpful to the thread, don't post on it.
Old 4th February 2009 | Show parent
  #10
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
How loud is your headphone mix? It's generally suggested that the louder your headphone mix, the sharper you tend to sing, so if you're fairly consistently flat you could try turning it up.

I think the real answer is just practice though. Singing live and tracking in the studio are very different things, and you just have to get used to it. Ideally you'll learn to stay on pitch with both ears in the cans and a relatively low volume, but failing that you just need to find whatever works for you. I doubt there are any quick fixes to this one (well, except for Melodyne )
Old 4th February 2009 | Show parent
  #11
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Higgs's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
If you can get some EQ control over just your vocals in the headphones, try playing around with that. I find that bumping the mids can sometimes help.
Old 4th February 2009 | Show parent
  #12
Moderator
 
Trev@Circle's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
a good hedphone mix and a decent reverb are the key if you really can sing in key.
Old 4th February 2009 | Show parent
  #13
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Old Cane's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
If you think I'm being a jerk and not helpful then reread what you posted. Here is what I got out of it.

- I'm a perfect singer but for some reason when I record myself I'm off key.

Now think about what you said and tell me that's not funny.

I mean these are your words here:

"Not to toot my own horn but I can sing really good. I can sing anything from any singer and be on pitch. listen if you doubt me

The problem I'm having is during tracking. When I'm recording I can not do one take that doesn't require melodyne. I'm always flat and sometimes sharp."


Sorry, I thought it was a joke.
Old 4th February 2009
  #14
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lordmiguel's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
try just using one ear of the headphones not both, or have on on and one sort of half-off

test your theory with music through speakers and a handheld sm57 (or whatever you're using live)

try a bigger room, or even your bathroom, somewhere where you are extremely comfortable so as to test your theory. don't worry about recording quality, just pitch. see how many cents closer you are.

if you're whole performance is down a certain number of cents, i'd look into volume in the cans, monitoring problems, headphone technique. if you are all over the board, you have to look deeper within yourself.

no compression or reverb or other effects when recording. this is important to know where you are starting.

make sure you are monitoring your vocal with minimal (or no latency) - ie software monitoring is off

my experience 99% of the time its psychological or ability related, unless you're hearing yourself really wet with verb.

also, you're not alone. most people can't sing anyways, and practicing almost every day for 6 months can work wonders, as can a vocal coach.
Old 4th February 2009 | Show parent
  #15
Jai guru deva om
 
warhead's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I would definitely try using your studio monitors rather than headphones first, as suggested earlier. It can be very pleasing, and the bleed from the monitors can be surprisingly low (especially if you choose a good dynamic cardioid rather than a condenser mic). Or, if you're used to using say a wedge monitor live then by all means, I would give that a shot.

Performance means more than anything else you've ever read on these forums, the good news is you should have no problem trying these things and personally discovering what works for you quickly since, well you're helping you help...you!

War
Old 4th February 2009 | Show parent
  #16
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dangoudie's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdjice ➡️
you could try tracking in the CR without cans , using Avantones or auratones at low volume. It does the trick for me sometimes, I think Sade did the same thing if I'm not mistaking .
You could do the old phase invert trick - record the from the speakers into the vocal mic with no vocals. Then record another track with vocals, flip the phase on one and sum the two and the spill should almost totally cancel out as long as you don't move the mic or stand directly between the mic and the speakers.

To the OP, I believe you may have what is known as "Red Light Fright Syndrome". Symptoms occur when record is pressed and include dry mouth, nerves, testicle retention and a number of other psychologically induced idiosyncrasies.

But seriously, a lot of great live singers cannot sing in a studio because the atmosphere is so different. Try changing your cans balance so you hear yourself less and have to sing out a bit. Try shutting your eyes and losing yourself in the song - sounds ridiculous but it works. Pretend you're at a gig. Try monitoring with compression on your voice - it often sounds much more flattering than the raw vocal take and people forget that their voice sounds very little like what they hear in their head. Remember your breathing. Worry less about singing wrong notes - the beauty of studio recording is that you can record every syllable separately if you want and all that really matters is the end result.

At the end of the day, if you're such a GREAT live singer and you have the know-how to make a great studio recording then who cares?
Old 4th February 2009 | Show parent
  #17
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5down1up's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
someone mentioned it already :

usual suspect is:

pitchs to low -> cue mix is low
pitchs to high -> cue mix is to loud

of course this only counts for people who can sing, you can blow my brain out and i wont hit a note right heh

if this still doesnt change the result, friend told me some years ago how to keep the bone conduction when using headphones. you can google it and theres even bone conduction headphones nowadays ( never tried it ! ).

the basic routing is an easy task, send your vocal to 2 busses, pan hard l&r, flip the phase on one side and thats what you hear on your headphones + the sound your used to. ( if i remeber it right )

takes some time to check it out, if you still cant get it, hire a experienced eng. with the right tools, he/she gets what you wants in an hour or so.

Old 5th February 2009 | Show parent
  #18
Lives for gear
 
hogo's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
yeah, kinda seemed like a joke till you got all snippy.
There are many great suggestions here so far. I'm a singer as well, and I can tell you that tracking is entirely a different beast than live performing. The most effective factor in bringing consistency to your two types of performances will be your singing technique. The mechanics of vocal production are often overlooked, and a good vocal coach can go a long way here. You gotta learn how to produce quality performances in both venues, and a coach can help give you those tools to rely on. Also, if you feel you're too good to learn from someone like that,then I think pitch is not the biggest problem here. Humility, patience, and hard work will often lead to something special. Just my 2 pence
Old 5th February 2009 | Show parent
  #19
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dangoudie's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Interesting tip from Ryan Greene - if you're singing sharp then tilt your head down and vice versa.
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