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Regarding the quality ( HD vs 003 )
Old 4th February 2009
  #1
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Regarding the quality ( HD vs 003 )

What is the difference between HD and 003 ( quality )
Are they different or similar ?
a friend told me that the hd is better than 003 quality

And another friend (an engineer) told me to they have the same quality

is this true ?
Old 4th February 2009
  #2
Lives for gear
 
gorillainthemix's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
sound quality is the same. However, the converters on the 192 are significantly better.
Old 4th February 2009 | Show parent
  #3
Gear Addict
 
wilkinswp's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I had a 003 rack for awhile before getting HD.

I could've sworn that bounces sounded more open with the HD than with the 003/LE. Maybe I'm crazy and it's some sort of subconscious attempt to further validate my spending so much more for HD. Anyone else had this experience. I got HD and just kept on going with recording and really haven't researched this. Actually, I think the DAE is different in HD. I could be wrong though. Correct me, if so.
Old 4th February 2009 | Show parent
  #4
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
I thought the mix engines were different
Old 4th February 2009 | Show parent
  #5
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
You heard what I heard. Big difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wilkinswp ➡️
I had a 003 rack for awhile before getting HD.

I could've sworn that bounces sounded more open with the HD than with the 003/LE. Maybe I'm crazy and it's some sort of subconscious attempt to further validate my spending so much more for HD. Anyone else had this experience. I got HD and just kept on going with recording and really haven't researched this. Actually, I think the DAE is different in HD. I could be wrong though. Correct me, if so.
Old 4th February 2009 | Show parent
  #6
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kooz's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
the "sound" of a digital system comes from lots of things; the room, the mics, pres, converters, and yes, the DAE, but mostly the person using all of that stuff as well as the talent in front of the mic and their rig.

One of the last things I would suspect for messing with the sound of something is the software. digi wouldn't have sold as much hardware as they have if the software imparted a negative sonic imprint on audio.
Old 5th February 2009 | Show parent
  #7
Gear Addict
 
wilkinswp's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Razorfish ➡️
You heard what I heard. Big difference.

Indeed, I didn't push it in my earlier post, but it was a significant difference. I wouldn't so much say LE sucks or anything, but to my ears, HD was just so much more pleasant.

This may cause an uproar some LE defenders, but before fully biting the bullet with Protools, I used Sonar with a solid analog front end of mics, pres and converters. After using Sonar for several years, I bought an LE system and thought things sounded much less open and "cloudy" in comparison to Sonar upon playback. I haven't had that experience with HD.
Old 5th February 2009 | Show parent
  #8
Gear Addict
 
buschfsu's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
is this true when mixing OTB as well as using the DAE mix engine? i dont mix with my LE ITB so if there is no difference bw LE and HD WITH external converters AND using direct outs only (OTB) then im ok.
Old 5th February 2009 | Show parent
  #9
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by soundsundergroun ➡️
I thought the mix engines were different
They are,HD has a 48bit fixed engine I believe, which accounts for a more open and clear summing process, whereas LE has 32bit.
Old 5th February 2009 | Show parent
  #10
Gear Maniac
 
mark.james's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I agree that hd sounds better in general because of the converters, but some of my best recordings were done on a 001.

Mark
Old 5th February 2009 | Show parent
  #11
Gear Addict
 
wilkinswp's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Using the same Apogee converters with HD and LE, HD sounded better. No doubt though, people have done a lot stuff on LE with a 001, 002 etc, that sounds much, much better than what I've done on HD. I just have HD because I'm careless with my credit card tutt
Old 5th February 2009 | Show parent
  #12
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Ben B's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
It would be easy enough to test this. Print unity gain, stereo stems for any mix. The stems could be drums, guitars, and vox. Import these stems into Pro Tools HD, and also into Pro Tools LE. Leave all faders at unity gain, and pan sliders fully left/right. Bounce to disc, without converting sample rate or bit depth, and also without adding dither. Import the bounced files into the same DAW, and check for sample-accurate time alignment between them. Once that is verified, invert the polarity of either one, and check for null.

-Ben B
Old 5th February 2009 | Show parent
  #13
Moderator
 
narcoman's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I'll do it. Organise me a load of stems . I've two HD rigs and 4 LE rigs.
Old 5th February 2009 | Show parent
  #14
Gear Maniac
 
Mathijs's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Razorfish ➡️
You heard what I heard. Big difference.
True
Old 5th February 2009 | Show parent
  #15
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andersmv's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
There is a difference, that's why you get your 003 moded by blacklion...

Black Lion Audio Home
Old 5th February 2009 | Show parent
  #16
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Ben B's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by andersmv ➡️
There is a difference, that's why you get your 003 moded by blacklion...

Black Lion Audio Home
A hardware mod will not affect the way the software handles summing. I think you're citing a different issue.

-Ben B
Old 5th February 2009 | Show parent
  #17
Lives for gear
 
Ben B's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I think a big part of the difference people hear between the 003 and HD interfaces is likely due to the D/A stage. If playback from a 192 I/O sounds better than a 003, there is not necessarily any difference at all between the the quality of the mix itself. Inferior D/A will exhibit reduced sound quality when playing back out of that particular interface, however.

I personally haven't tried the null test I suggested earlier, but doing so would allow one to rule out whether or not summing is responsible for the perceived differences.

Where I work, I have access to three different TDM/HD systems, and 15 LE 003 systems. If I have time, I'll try the test I proposed, and post the results here. It might take me a while to get to it though.

-Ben B
Old 5th February 2009 | Show parent
  #18
Lives for gear
 
Ben B's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Oh yeah, and we also have Logic Pro 8 and Digital Performer 5. I could import the stems into those systems as well, bounce them and see if they null against the HD and PTLE bounces. I suspect they will, but we'll see.

-Ben B
Old 6th February 2009 | Show parent
  #19
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andersmv's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben B ➡️
A hardware mod will not affect the way the software handles summing. I think you're citing a different issue.

-Ben B
The Signature Series modification for the 002R was developed and designed with one thing in mind: to turn Digidesign’s LE hardware into a monster multi-channel recording system that can rival or surpass even the most high end systems on the market today. It features our proprietary A/D and D/A circuit configurations and high speed, low noise analog stages. Low impedance, low ripple Sanyo OS-Con capacitors are used throughout the signal path and converter stages.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben B ➡️
I think a big part of the difference people hear between the 003 and HD interfaces is likely due to the D/A stage. If playback from a 192 I/O sounds better than a 003, there is not necessarily any difference at all between the the quality of the mix itself. Inferior D/A will exhibit reduced sound quality when playing back out of that particular interface, however.
Exactly. And if you can hear your mix in a better way you are going to mix it better.
Old 6th February 2009 | Show parent
  #20
Lives for gear
 
Heartfelt's Avatar
 
5 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Funny, others are 64bit. Assumedly better than both.
Old 6th February 2009 | Show parent
  #21
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
If they are different from some of the quality
Why do some say they hold the same quality
and

The difference is only in the program ,converters , plugins



I know that the converter in HD is better than 003
I am talking about the 003 soundcard
I am talking about the
HD soundcard

Without talking about anything inside that cards
Old 6th February 2009 | Show parent
  #22
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
It's the lack of PDC, this causes weird phasiness and stuff that makes things sound funny.
Old 6th February 2009 | Show parent
  #23
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Converters on LE stuff are not great. But that is only part of why HD sounds better. You can record on an LE system and mix in the box on HD and it will sound better. That ain't converters, it's probably the mix engine. I wish it weren't true. I am a die-hard PT fan, but if I were to lose my HD system (through cruel divine intervention) I would NEVER go back to LE. No way. Nuendo or Logic it would be, even though it would take years to edit/mix as fast as I can on PT. LE is the new Fostex four track. Convenient, easy to use and mediocre sound.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mark.james ➡️
I agree that hd sounds better in general because of the converters, but some of my best recordings were done on a 001.

Mark
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