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Figure 8 for acoustic guitar
Old 30th January 2009
  #1
Gear Maniac
 
tomeford's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Figure 8 for acoustic guitar

Hi all

I've been recording alot of voice and acoustic live lately and would like to get a figure 8 on the acoustic for better rejection of voice.

The only figure 8's i have in my collection (and have been using on vox) are rode k2 and neumann tlm 170.. neither of which have been working on guitars.


any ideas for a good mic? c414 maybe? bxl bxl11?

lets not worry about budget for now...
Old 25th March 2009
  #2
Gear Maniac
 
tomeford's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Anyone?

what do you all use ?
Old 25th March 2009 | Show parent
  #3
Lives for gear
 
swafford's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I use a Royer 122v.
Old 25th March 2009 | Show parent
  #4
Gear Addict
 
emfrank72's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I tried a Royer 121 on an acoustic with a Shure KSM44 in figure 8 on vocals and got great rejection of the guitar in the vocal mic. But no matter what I tried, I couldn't get the vocals out of the guitar mic. The vocals were just as loud as the guitar in the guitar mic. I also tried the KSM44 on the guitar with the same issue.
Old 25th March 2009 | Show parent
  #5
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ianbryn11's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I use akg 414B-xls in figure 8 on acoustics and i like the results.
Old 25th March 2009 | Show parent
  #6
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bgrotto's Avatar
The 170 should be working great; I use em all the time!

What don't you like about it?
Old 25th March 2009 | Show parent
  #7
Gear Maniac
 
tomeford's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
the 170 didn't give me the clarity I wanted.. it was a little boomy.
very hard to control the bottom end.

I may have just got unlucky with a guitar that didn't suit.
Old 30th March 2009 | Show parent
  #8
Lives for gear
 
GearGuy's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
My fav is the R122 on acoustic guitars, either by itself, with a condenser, or even two R122 in a Blumlein Pair.
Old 30th March 2009 | Show parent
  #9
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Kris's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
km86
Old 31st March 2009 | Show parent
  #10
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
+1 Km86,

or AEA R92/R84

Iain
Old 31st March 2009 | Show parent
  #11
Kush Audio
 
u b k's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomeford ➑️
the 170 didn't give me the clarity I wanted.. it was a little boomy.
very hard to control the bottom end.

sounds more like a room issue than a mic issue.


gregory scott - ubk
.
Old 4th April 2009 | Show parent
  #12
Gear Addict
 
mm-pro's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I like the Beyer m130 for some guitars.


Regards,

MM
Old 4th April 2009 | Show parent
  #13
Gear Addict
 
outUVphaze's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Sounds like a room issue. I like the 122's in blumlein also. Is the room treated?
Old 5th April 2009 | Show parent
  #14
Gear Head
 
janglyrecords's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I use a Microtech Gefell UMT 70S as my figure 8 mic for acoustic guitar. The mic is a bit similar to a U47 FET. However, my favorite use of this mic in Figure 8 is to then add an AKG 451 to do M/S stereo. There is a cool little Auralex product (Aural-Expanders) that lets one semi-isolate the small condenser so there is not much bleed. As long as the singer is getting it right, a little bit of bleed isn't a bad thing.

Cheers.
Old 5th April 2009 | Show parent
  #15
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
royer 121 here... love it on acoustic guitar angled in at 12 fret... usually combine with another mic aimed off angle at the body below the bridge (old 414, old 87...) -- but have often used just the 121 in the mix and really like the sound (on old gibsons and martins, with a phoenix drs-2, a pendulum tub pre, or a chandler tg2)... prefer the sound of the 121 to the 122 -- a little sweeter to our ears...
Old 6th April 2009 | Show parent
  #16
Gear Maniac
 
tomeford's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Just had another crack with the 170 for a live recording of wendy matthews and her 2 guitarists.. Worked really nice. Sounded really good and the rejection on vox was pretty good too. Very glad it was mentioned in this thread to make me try it again.

I think I must have got unlucky with a guitar that didn't suit it.. It is a good treated room.

The royer 121 is coming up alot. I'd love to have a play with one. Can anyone lead me to a place around Sydney that might be able to help me out?
Old 6th April 2009 | Show parent
  #17
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jjblair's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Personally, I would choose the AEA R84 over the Royer. The high end is much sweeter, the high end is essential for me on acoustic. Pete Townshend uses the R84 on acoustic, these days.

BTW, ribbons have much better rejection than a condenser in fig 8. Also, when you use a condenser in fig 8, the sound will get darker. Fig 8 rolls off the top end.
Old 6th April 2009 | Show parent
  #18
Gear Nut
 
admench's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
The SE 3300a is good for the price
Old 6th April 2009 | Show parent
  #19
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjblair ➑️
Personally, I would choose the AEA R84 over the Royer. The high end is much sweeter, the high end is essential for me on acoustic. Pete Townshend uses the R84 on acoustic, these days.
Not such a great endorsement JJ.

From: Famous People with Tinnitus

Quote:
Pete Townshend - "I have severe hearing damage. It's manifested itself as tinnitus, ringing in the ears at frequencies that I play guitar. It hurts, it's painful, and it's frustrating." Townshend is completely deaf in one ear from an explosion when Keith Moon blew up his drum set live on stage in the early 1960's and loud amps. He has tinnitus, resulting partly from the band's live gigs but mainly the deafening volume in which he and Entwistle used to listen to playbacks over the studio "cans." There are reports saying that he is unable even to hear his phone ring.
Old 7th April 2009 | Show parent
  #20
Gear Nut
 
danharr's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
+1 for an AKG 414... You can get one relatively cheap, and the tone changes quite a lot on these depending on the mic pre you use. I'd guess it is a function of the input Z. I often use a pair on acoustic in Blumlein config, and they really sound good.
Old 7th April 2009 | Show parent
  #21
Gear Addict
 
SHIRK's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
+1 for the R84.

I use an older U87 and an R84 for the Singer/Acstc guitarist setup quite often. Mostly because those are the only 2 mics that I own with figure 8 polar patterns. (Aside from my Fathead II's which don't perform that well on either of these two sources IMO)

I always choose whichever mic suits the voice best, then the other one goes on the acstc gtr. R84 has performed well on both sources many a time.
Old 7th April 2009 | Show parent
  #22
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
another +1 for the 414, I've had some very nice results using just a 414 on either figure 8 or omni for acoustics. If you've got a guitar with nice highs try an 81 on the 12th fret and the 414 about 2-3 ft away, one of my personal favorites.
Old 7th April 2009 | Show parent
  #23
Lives for gear
 
whitepapagold's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Spearritt ➑️
Not such a great endorsement JJ.

From: Famous People with Tinnitus
Thats pretty f'in funny....heh

Personally I just thought... who cares what a total has been thinks about mics... ESPECIALLY Pete Townsend. The guy is a old used up rock star, not even close to an engineer! Hes a total ASS at this point... No wait he was ALWAYS a total ass but before you put up with it because he was HUGE...

Hes nothing now...

Thats the second time recently someone has dropped his name in regards to this mic... Christ, he doesn't even know where he is at this point, let alone what mic to pick for acoustic... Strange endorsement if you think about it.

It would be much more appropriate if this was a thread about which antibiotics to use or how to get rid of a cold sore... But mics???? Nawww.....
Old 7th April 2009 | Show parent
  #24
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Kris's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitepapagold ➑️
Hes a total ASS at this point...
Yeah, hillarious... who's the ASS again?
Old 7th April 2009 | Show parent
  #25
Dan
Lives for gear
 
Dan's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Yeah, especially if it's a large body Gibson or something, you'll have too much low end, add on top of that if you're anywhere near the sound hole a figure 8 mic is usually not so good. What about taking an opposite approach, and using an omni, but getting really tight with it?
Maybe the opposite would be putting a good stereo mic in front of both the Singer, and the guitar, and let the musician mix himself. You'd probably lean a little more towards the vocal in mic placement, but I'm just tossing out ideas.
The other idea I have is to use a blumlein kind of on it's side, with on mic pointing at the guitar, and the other at the singers head. You can get some rejection that way, and it should sum nicely.
Old 7th April 2009 | Show parent
  #26
Lives for gear
 
Audio Hombre's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitepapagold ➑️
Thats pretty f'in funny....heh

Personally I just thought... who cares what a total has been thinks about mics... ESPECIALLY Pete Townsend. The guy is a old used up rock star, not even close to an engineer! Hes a total ASS at this point... No wait he was ALWAYS a total ass but before you put up with it because he was HUGE...

Hes nothing now...

Thats the second time recently someone has dropped his name in regards to this mic... Christ, he doesn't even know where he is at this point, let alone what mic to pick for acoustic... Strange endorsement if you think about it.

It would be much more appropriate if this was a thread about which antibiotics to use or how to get rid of a cold sore... But mics???? Nawww.....
do the happy pictures on your cereal boxes at least make you smile now and then? christ, i thought i could be cantankerous but you're just plain bitter. i pity you being so bitter and self absorbed in tis business.

as for bi directional pair for acoustic and singer, aside from whats already been mentioned a pair of 4050's will work well and can be had cheap.
Old 7th April 2009 | Show parent
  #27
Gear Guru
 
henryrobinett's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Lately I've been using Peluso P12 on acoustic guitar in figure 8 and couldn't be happier.
Old 7th April 2009 | Show parent
  #28
SK1
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SK1's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audio Hombre ➑️
.......as for bi directional pair for acoustic and singer, aside from whats already been mentioned a pair of 4050's will work well and can be had cheap.
Nice.

Also, reading some of the above posts..... I'm wondering if everybody is on the same page. We're talking about vocs and acoustic at the same time. With two figure 8 mics. Using the figure 8 to cancel out a good portion of the other source and give a bit of isolation to each source, even though they were recorded at the same time in the same room. Works great for chick singer guitar players who may not be "studio savy"

Old 7th April 2009 | Show parent
  #29
Gear Guru
 
henryrobinett's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Yeah, yeah, I know what the OP was referring to. I wasn't using my figure 8 in THIS case, like that. But I have. In my case, with the P12, I was minimizing leakage from drums and other sounds in the room. But the SOUND of the guitar was wonderful.
Old 8th April 2009 | Show parent
  #30
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
surprised that ribbons are coming up so much on this thread. Always found them way too quiet and dark for this type of stuff... maybe my room just isn't as good / as quiet.

i need to get re-acquainted with my 121... literally haven't touched it in months.
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