Quantcast
Recording Acoustic Guitars - Page 3 - Gearspace.com
The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
Recording Acoustic Guitars
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #61
Lives for gear
 
tmcconnell's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Royer 122

Just makes em' sound lush. 121 is pretty much the same. Schoeps CMC6 w mk21 capsule is nice too - along the lines of the km84. For Rockish stuff i used to use the Sure ksm32 a lot - its got a mid/growl thing that makes it cut. But, still, the royer 122 does what you want. Velvet without the tizz that so many acoustics have.

Also have recently used the soundeluxe e49 in a wide cardioid - almost omni, and a gefell umt70s if you like that glassy thing. The e49 is pricey, but lovely and real sounding. AEA r84 can be good if you can get it far enough away that the proximity effect does not conspire with the boominess of the instrument.

A lot of mics work if you can get the right placement, and right rolloff. Taming brashness, boom, and pick artifacts are important imo. Its a game of inches. t.
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #62
Gear Guru
 
elambo's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by greatgreatriver ➑️
I'm so angry right now! Why haven't anyone comment on my guitar track? I'm gonna destroy my mic.

Here I come - a friendly guy! And I take the time to upload a "track" - and no one cares? This is sick!

I'm so angry.
And I thought my ex was high maintenance - holy crap!
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #63
Gear Guru
 
elambo's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
My absolute favorite is a KM54. For clarity I like Schoeps CMC6/mk4. Depending on the guitar, I also like a Wunder CM7.

For mic pres, John Hardy is tough to beat. Of course a Neve is an effective classic.
Old 1st February 2009 | Show parent
  #64
Gear Addict
 
Capstan Cappy's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
absolutely agree on the KM54, sounds very very good.
Old 2nd February 2009 | Show parent
  #65
Lives for gear
 
gwailoh's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by grushmore ➑️
First off, thank you "Mark (gwailoh)" for calling my advice nonsense!



- So it's not really a case of transformerless mics having tighter bass;
it's more that transformer-coupled mics have "looser" bass. A semantic
quibble, but it points up the source of the difference.


Transformers are somewhat nonlinear devices. Part of this is related to
"hysteresis", which affects magnetic materials, and takes a long time to
explain. However...transformers also will saturate - they'll reach a point where
they're generating distortion. (This is actually wrapped up with the
hysteresis, but let's not complicate this more than necessary.) This
distortion increases with increasing level (not unusual); it also
increases as the frequency gets lower. So you might see a transformer
generating 0.02% harmonic distortion at 1kHz, 0dBu, but 1% harmonic
distortion at 20Hz, at the same voltage level. Put those together,
perhaps add some phase shift at the bottom end of the audio spectrum,
and you get a softening of the bass from most transformers. The KM 84's
transformer is quite small, which means the low-frequency saturation
effects are worse (more iron = less low-frequency distortion, all else
being equal).

I hope I cleared things a bit up for you.

Thank you!

Glen
Hi Glen:

Here's an experiment that seems plausible to me. Take a UM70 and a UMT70 and record the same source. I picked these mics because I believe that they have the same capsule and the same amplifier, in other words, are pretty close to identical other than the transformer. Does the UMT70 sound tighter in the bass?

Actually somewhat the opposite, to my ear. In general the UM70 sounds a hair more substantial and better focused to me, including the bass.

The snotty-ass way to end this post would be with "I hope I cleared things up a bit for you." ;-) But I don't mean to be snotty-ass. I do disbelieve, flatly, the notion that in some general way transformerless mics per se have tighter bass than transformer mics, assuming we mean something similar by the word "tight".
Old 2nd February 2009 | Show parent
  #66
70% Coffee, 30% Beer
 
Doc Mixwell's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwailoh ➑️
Hi Glen:

Here's an experiment that seems plausible to me. Take a UM70 and a UMT70 and record the same source. I picked these mics because I believe that they have the same capsule and the same amplifier, in other words, are pretty close to identical other than the transformer. Does the UMT70 sound tighter in the bass?

Actually somewhat the opposite, to my ear. In general the UM70 sounds a hair more substantial and better focused to me, including the bass.

The snotty-ass way to end this post would be with "I hope I cleared things up a bit for you." ;-) But I don't mean to be snotty-ass. I do disbelieve, flatly, the notion that in some general way transformerless mics per se have tighter bass than transformer mics, assuming we mean something similar by the word "tight".
Why don't you guys agree to disagree and use whatever is the "tightest" sounding microphone, to you.
Old 3rd February 2009 | Show parent
  #67
Lives for gear
 
gwailoh's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roc Mixwell ➑️
Why don't you guys agree to disagree and use whatever is the "tightest" sounding microphone, to you.
Because improving the overall level of accuracy of the information on GS makes GS a more useful resource, particularly for newer engineers who don't have the benefit of having used and compared 30 years worth of gear.

IMO, notions which contradict experience deserve to be challenged, if only so that they can be clarified. I'll try not to take it personally when you challenge me, and, I'll try not to be so terse when I challenge others.
Old 3rd February 2009 | Show parent
  #68
70% Coffee, 30% Beer
 
Doc Mixwell's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwailoh ➑️
Because improving the overall level of accuracy of the information on GS makes GS a more useful resource, particularly for newer engineers who don't have the benefit of having used and compared 30 years worth of gear.

IMO, notions which contradict experience deserve to be challenged, if only so that they can be clarified. I'll try not to take it personally when you challenge me, and, I'll try not to be so terse when I challenge others.
I understand your concerns, I would hope any of my posts are not seen as challenges, but rather my view or opinion. I think its tough to convey the needed context when chatting about sound on GS or whatever, which is indeed a very hard thing to do in person let alone a forum about gear and its addiction.
Old 3rd February 2009 | Show parent
  #69
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roc Mixwell ➑️
Why don't you guys agree to disagree and use whatever is the "tightest" sounding microphone, to you.
I couldn't agree more!

My first and last comment on this:


The subject of the thread is:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Odey ➑️
I am looking for a good mic for recording Steel string and classical Acoustic guitars.
grushmore gave some pro advice. He also said: "There are a lot of great choices these days... here are my personal favorites" pretty nice and objective. IMO


Then "Mark Phillips" is showing up and had a problem with the term "tight" and started a debate to go off topic.
Mark also called grushmore's "tight" statement nonsense. Not nice. IMO

You can't call someone's comment "nonsense" and not expect a ironic ending line. ;-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by gwailoh ➑️
Because improving the overall level of accuracy of the information on GS makes GS a more useful resource, particularly for newer engineers who don't have the benefit of having used and compared 30 years worth of gear.

IMO, notions which contradict experience deserve to be challenged, if only so that they can be clarified. I'll try not to take it personally when you challenge me, and, I'll try not to be so terse when I challenge others.



Mark that's ridiculous and my "nice"- "not nice" comparison above speaks for itself.

Your level of accuracy may be different than the level of accuracy of someone else.


I love gearslutz but sometimes it's also a PIA because of people like you which tend to go off topic just to prove their ego.


Give YOUR advice on this topic and let it go...
Old 3rd February 2009 | Show parent
  #70
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
i just purchased 2 kmi84's used. one off of ebay, one on GS. for both the total was just under $1650. both sound great and paired up excellent.

having said that. these mics destroy anything else ive tried on acoustic guitar. (my previous favorites being: km184's, sm81's, rode ntk). the kmi84's have a highend detail & gloss that is amazing. no EQ required besides a small HPF.

yes, they are noisy by 'todays standards', but i'll take the highend detail & gloss over modern day specs any day. i cant honestly see myself ever saying that these mics are too noisy to use for any application (but then again - never recorded or played w/ nylod strings).

just my own personal experience.
Old 3rd February 2009 | Show parent
  #71
Gear Maniac
 
guitarbth's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Shure KSM 141 probably wouldn't be a bad choice...
Old 3rd April 2009 | Show parent
  #72
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
I have a matched stereo pair of Peluso CEMC6's arriving tomorrow! I hope they are all they are cracked up to be! Will report back.
Old 23rd April 2009 | Show parent
  #73
Gear Nut
 
eman kayker's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by greatgreatriver ➑️
I'm loving beyer M260 on ac guitar...
thanks for the clip
That reminds me of Jimmmy Page's type of sound.
Any idea how he recorded his acoustic?
Old 23rd April 2009 | Show parent
  #74
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Spearritt ➑️
There is no "gold standard" for any instrument. KM84's are too noisy for quiet acoustic playing (like classical) and many are quite different from each other due to age so a stereo pair is hard to come by.
A "maintained" KM84 isn't noisy at all.


If you consider that the KM84 ist the most used and beloved on ac gtr
it is not overstated to call it the "gold standard".

If you love the ac guitar sound of Cat Stevens you'll love the KM84.
If you want a super clean and true to source ac gtr sound get something else but
for warmth and velvet get a KM84. Don't forget maintenance.
Old 23rd April 2009 | Show parent
  #75
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Wheeler ➑️
If you consider that the KM84 ist the most used and beloved on ac gtr
Who says?
Quote:
it is not overstated to call it the "gold standard".
Maybe not "overstated", but its meaningless.
Old 23rd April 2009 | Show parent
  #76
Lives for gear
 
gwailoh's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Well - I'm the author of the "gold standard" phrase which David Spearritt took issue with earlier in the thread, and I agree with him that my choice of words was poor and misleading. Your [edit: Ron Wheeler's] phrase "most used and beloved on ac gtr" is what I was thinking but failing to express.

I disagree with David though re the KM84 being noisy, none of mine are. Also I've never had much success with KM184s on acoustics. He seems to be talking about nylon stringed classical guitars though, while I believe that the OP had steel strings in mind.
Old 23rd April 2009 | Show parent
  #77
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
I had steel strings in mind as well (I have a D35), but was pointing out that for very quiet finger picking, a KM84 is too noisy. I also had a KM86 I used a lot on guitar until I sold it because it was too noisy also. The KM184 is much cleaner and quieter, as long as it is not too close to the instrument. Try pointing it down at the lower bout, 1m or so away.
Old 23rd April 2009 | Show parent
  #78
Lives for gear
 
gwailoh's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Spearritt ➑️
I had steel strings in mind as well (I have a D35), but was pointing out that for very quiet finger picking, a KM84 is too noisy. I also had a KM86 I used a lot on guitar until I sold it because it was too noisy also. The KM184 is much cleaner and quieter, as long as it is not too close to the instrument. Try pointing it down at the lower bout, 1m or so away.
Which I think probably goes to show that often when people are talking past each other in threads like this one it's because we're thinking of very different styles of music, or very different mic techniques.
Old 24th April 2009 | Show parent
  #79
Lives for gear
 
Mike Jasper's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by huarez ➑️
I Β΄ve achieved the best results with some DPA 4006 by far. Love omnidirectional mics for Acoustics!
I'm dying to try one of those. Tried the 4011, but not that one.

Jasper
Old 24th April 2009 | Show parent
  #80
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
I've used a pair of AT4050's and gotten great results (in a good room) on acoustic. Plus, they're just all around good mic's to have. Throw them up as drum overheads or alongside a 57 on a guitar cab if you ever need to.
Old 24th April 2009 | Show parent
  #81
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Spearritt ➑️
I had steel strings in mind as well (I have a D35), but was pointing out that for very quiet finger picking, a KM84 is too noisy. I also had a KM86 I used a lot on guitar until I sold it because it was too noisy also. The KM184 is much cleaner and quieter, as long as it is not too close to the instrument. Try pointing it down at the lower bout, 1m or so away.
You obviously have not a maintained KM84 or a noisy pre. I record even the quietest classical guitars with no noise. At least not interfering.

You can't use vintage mics without maintenance done by a pro.


I also have KM86's they aren't noisy after a service.
My maintenance guy matched the FET and changed the tantalum capacitors with electrolytic capacitor. This way the mic gets awesome. It's the same with the KM84.

Get informed and educated about your mics before you claim them to be noisy and make other people insecure. Sure the KM84 aren't quiet like a KM184 but the KM84/KM86 sound quiet enough if properly maintained. People love the great KM84 sound not a brittle, cold and sterile sounding version of the KM84... the KM184.

Manuel Barrueco's first and only choice is a KM84.
I'm not saying it's the only and or the best choice. Every player/instrument/room combination needs the right mic. Your ears and taste needs finally to decide.


I use SDC's:


KM83/4/5
KM86 pair for stereo.
AKG C451 E, EB, B
AKG C460B

I'm not a fan of LDC mics regarding ac guitar but if needed
a C12 or U47/M7 is doing a nice job.



Good night
Old 24th April 2009 | Show parent
  #82
Lives for gear
 
Mike Jasper's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Wheeler ➑️
You can't use vintage mics without maintenance done by a pro.
That's true.

The problem is getting the damn mics back from the pros. I've heard horror stories about every major mic tech. You send them the mic and it's gone for six months. Or even worse, they tamper with the parts.

So who do you recommend?

Jasper
PS -- By C451 I take it you mean the EB or E and not the current B model.
Old 24th April 2009 | Show parent
  #83
AB3
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
especially in OMNI mode ---
Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarbth ➑️
Shure KSM 141 probably wouldn't be a bad choice...
Old 25th April 2009 | Show parent
  #84
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Jasper ➑️
That's true.

The problem is getting the damn mics back from the pros. I've heard horror stories about every major mic tech. You send them the mic and it's gone for six months. Or even worse, they tamper with the parts.

So who do you recommend?

Jasper,

I've never had this experience with Andreas Grosser. The only disadvantage is that he's located in Berlin. So I ship everything to Europe.

Grosser is honest and does great and reliable work. He moded my last U87 within a week and it sounded great as always.

PM me if you need his addy.


PS I only heard your story once about a ribbon guy in Texas when I remember right.
Old 25th April 2009 | Show parent
  #85
Lives for gear
 
Odey's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I actually ended up getting a Royer 121 to use on a fender twin aswell. Tried it on the acoustic guitar but it was a bit dull and bassy. Not sure if this is to do with bad positioning or the room sound not being too great. Any thoughts on his are appreciated. I have also got the Pearlman TM1 which I am going to try on acoustic guitar when my guitarist is next around. Also tried an AK47 ( Which I didnt purchase) I thought it sounded great on the acoustic.

Thanks

Odey
Old 25th April 2009 | Show parent
  #86
Lives for gear
 
gwailoh's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Odey ➑️
I actually ended up getting a Royer 121 to use on a fender twin aswell. Tried it on the acoustic guitar but it was a bit dull and bassy. Not sure if this is to do with bad positioning or the room sound not being too great. Any thoughts on his are appreciated.
You can try turning the 121 around - the flip side is a little brighter. Also, don't place it too close to the guitar - lots of proximity effect! Lastly, it takes eq nicely, so don't be afraid to crank it up.
Old 25th April 2009 | Show parent
  #87
Lives for gear
 
Odey's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
"lots of proximity effect"

I can mess around with position but I read in the royer manual that it shouldnt suffer from proximity effect. It was worth buying because it sounds great close micing the Fender twin with a strat and a fender rhodes
Old 25th April 2009 | Show parent
  #88
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
A pressure gradient aka directional mic will have proximity effect.

I have read some stuff from Royer that indicates some lack of technical knowledge.


/Peter
Old 26th April 2009 | Show parent
  #89
Lives for gear
 
Teddy Ray's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnumXK ➑️
what is you pricerange? It will be the biggest deciding factor.

for guitars..

There is nothing better, in my opinion, than a pair of Coles 4040s.

for a cheaper alternative, the AT4050 and Rode NT-4 are quite great..

there is a great sample floating around here (Coles 4040 on guitar)
Old 26th April 2009 | Show parent
  #90
Lives for gear
 
Teddy Ray's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
https://gearspace.com/board/3920562-post17.html

great sound!
πŸ“ Reply

Similar Threads

Thread / Thread Starter Replies / Views Last Post
replies: 5874 views: 1880636
Avatar for Funny Cat
Funny Cat 7 hours ago
replies: 1178 views: 265065
Avatar for bill5
bill5 2 weeks ago
replies: 92 views: 36020
Avatar for Ty Ford
Ty Ford 5th April 2021
replies: 4 views: 953
Avatar for Deleted 1aa3d4676f73940
Deleted 1aa3d4676f73940 15th August 2016
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearspace Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…

Forum Jump
Forum Jump