Quantcast
Rupert Neve Designs 5088 in LA This Week - Gearspace.com
The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
Rupert Neve Designs 5088 in LA This Week
Old 26th January 2009
  #1
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
Rupert Neve Designs 5088 in LA This Week

Hey All,
I'll be out in LA this week doing demos Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday at Infrasonic Sound. Drop me a line and let me know if you would like to swing by and check out Jeff's 32 input desk. He has PT and 2".

Hopefully this will more than make up for not having audio on the Booth at NAMM across from the good folks at Vestax.

I hope to see you there!

Best regards,

Josh
Old 26th January 2009
  #2
Lives for gear
 
GYang's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshRND ➑️
Hey All,
I'll be out in LA this week doing demos Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday at Infrasonic Sound. Drop me a line and let me know if you would like to swing by and check out Jeff's 32 input desk. He has PT and 2".

Hopefully this will more than make up for not having audio on the Booth at NAMM across from the good folks at Vestax.

I hope to see you there!

Best regards,

Josh

Pics man.
And I just returned from LA
Old 26th January 2009
  #3
Lives for gear
 
dabigfrog's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
oooo00000HHHH wish I could go!
Old 27th January 2009 | Show parent
  #4
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by GYang ➑️
Pics man.
And I just returned from LA
I'll get some pics up in the next day. Sorry that I missed meeting you out this way!
Old 29th January 2009 | Show parent
  #5
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
a few pics
Attached Thumbnails
Rupert Neve Designs 5088 in LA This Week-infrasonic-5088.jpg   Rupert Neve Designs 5088 in LA This Week-infrasonic-how-records-made.jpg  
Old 29th January 2009 | Show parent
  #6
Gear Guru
Does anyone know why the demo unit at Namm didn't work this year and last year? I believe they do supply electricity for those booths...

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades
Old 29th January 2009 | Show parent
  #7
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
????????

Maybe Josh could answer this question seems odd for both times

Also, is it true that you have to push to buttons to "solo" a channel?
Old 29th January 2009 | Show parent
  #8
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams ➑️
Does anyone know why the demo unit at Namm didn't work this year and last year? I believe they do supply electricity for those booths...

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades
It did work, and actually went directly to a customer. We were right across from the Vestax booth that was bombarding us with about 90dB of "ambient" noise, and decided not to enter the sound battles, as little can be ascertained under such circumstances.

With anyone interested in seriously checking out the desk I set up demos at Infrasonic this week. They have an HD rig, a 2" machine and a proper control room. I believe this is the best environment to evaluate a console.
Old 29th January 2009 | Show parent
  #9
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8068 ➑️
Maybe Josh could answer this question seems odd for both times

Also, is it true that you have to push to buttons to "solo" a channel?
I think that you mean 'two' and not 'to'.

And if so, the answer is no, the desk can be setup a couple of different ways.
Old 29th January 2009 | Show parent
  #10
Lives for gear
 
GYang's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams ➑️
Does anyone know why the demo unit at Namm didn't work this year and last year? I believe they do supply electricity for those booths...
It looks nice, so why should it work in such noisy environment, anyway it wouldn't be possible to distinguish it sonically from Behringer heh
Old 29th January 2009 | Show parent
  #11
Gear Guru
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshRND ➑️
It did work, and actually went directly to a customer. We were right across from the Vestax booth that was bombarding us with about 90dB of "ambient" noise, and decided not to enter the sound battles, as little can be ascertained under such circumstances.

With anyone interested in seriously checking out the desk I set up demos at Infrasonic this week. They have an HD rig, a 2" machine and a proper control room. I believe this is the best environment to evaluate a console.
That seems odd to me. I would leave it up to potential customers to determine whether it was worth listening to, after all, headphones will work. I passed the booth as there was no demo to hear. I suspect many others did the same. You missed an opprotunity to expose the product to thousands, all the other console makers had theirs up and running, some with speakers, some with headphones.

The best enviroment to listen to a console doesn't help the guy that flew in for Namm to test drive it. He went home. Probably bought the ABT or Tonelux instead.
Will you power it up next year?

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades
Old 29th January 2009 | Show parent
  #12
Gear Addict
 
Barry Lird's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams ➑️
That seems odd to me. I would leave it up to potential customers to determine whether it was worth listening to, after all, headphones will work. I passed the booth as there was no demo to hear. I suspect many others did the same. You missed an opprotunity to expose the product to thousands, all the other console makers had theirs up and running, some with speakers, some with headphones.

The best enviroment to listen to a console doesn't help the guy that flew in for Namm to test drive it. He went home. Probably bought the ABT or Tonelux instead.
Will you power it up next year?

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades
I cannot imagine any human spending 70k+ on a console based solely on a listening test in a convention center.

Jim - Were you considering buying one until you saw it wasn't powered up? Were you hoping to track on it too?
Old 29th January 2009 | Show parent
  #13
Gear Guru
Neither would I. It would serve to determine whether it's on the list or not, whether the routing and features fit or not.

Namm is a good venue for listening if you get in after opening. The first hour is relatively quiet. If the fact that the floor noise is so bad later on in the day that it's not worth even trying to listen, why go at all? That didn't seem to stop 80,000 others from auditioning gear.

To invest in a booth, ship the product out to be demo-ed and then determine for the potential customer that they are wasting their time to even try to hear it is strange for a Namm show exhibitor. What's the harm to let the customer decide?
A photo of it would have sufficed given the demo capabilities.
The word going around on the floor was that it didn't work, again.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades
Old 29th January 2009 | Show parent
  #14
Lives for gear
 
Audio Hombre's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshRND ➑️
With anyone interested in seriously checking out the desk I set up demos at Infrasonic this week. They have an HD rig, a 2" machine and a proper control room. I believe this is the best environment to evaluate a console.
looks like room for maybe 2 people in that tiny CR
Old 29th January 2009 | Show parent
  #15
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams ➑️
Neither would I. It would serve to determine whether it's on the list or not, whether the routing and features fit or not.

Namm is a good venue for listening if you get in after opening. The first hour is relatively quiet. If the fact that the floor noise is so bad later on in the day that it's not worth even trying to listen, why go at all? That didn't seem to stop 80,000 others from auditioning gear.

To invest in a booth, ship the product out to be demo-ed and then determine for the potential customer that they are wasting their time to even try to hear it is strange for a Namm show exhibitor. What's the harm to let the customer decide?
A photo of it would have sufficed given the demo capabilities.
The word going around on the floor was that it didn't work, again.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades
We had the whole Portico Range hooked up to a headphone system, and even then we told folks that if it was something that they were interested in that we recommend arranging a demo in their studio so that they could really hear what it could do.

Check with EveAnna on how loud our little corner of the world was.

We build a console that we are immensely proud of. We hope that it continues to find its way into facilities that care about sonics and make important music, and make the world a little more pleasant.

Sorry if we bummed anybody out by not having audio through the console, but again I have to say that very little could be ascertained. If anyone had absolutely insisted that they needed to hear it at the show I would have powered up the Adam's, but many of the folks that wanted to listen more than happily made the trek to Infrasonic and we've been having a blast.

Peace,

Josh
Old 29th January 2009 | Show parent
  #16
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audio Hombre ➑️
looks like room for maybe 2 people in that tiny CR
Actually 13.5' x 20' and a really good sounding room. I had to use my 10mm fisheye to get the room in which does strange things to depth of field and perspective.
Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #17
Lives for gear
 
Kronos147's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshRND ➑️
We build a console that we are immensely proud of. We hope that it continues to find its way into facilities that care about sonics and make important music, and make the world a little more pleasant.
The console looks GREAT. I have been e-mailing Jeff about a demo. I look forward to hearing it sometime.

I am glad you built it. It is a bold move to swim against the stream and not go digital. I applaud each and every manufacturer of analog gear.

As cool as I think the SSL AWS900 console is, I can't see a console that integrates any DAW connectivity selling for more than pennies on the dollar 20 years after release. All of the timeless gear has thus far been analog. I don't foresee that changing. To me it makes the 5088 a better value for the money.

Best of luck with the RND console!

Eric
Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #18
Lives for gear
 
dubrichie's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Josh, can you please clarify whether or not there are switched inserts on each channel of the 5088?

does anyone else think it odd not to include a switched insert on every channel of such a console?

cheers,
Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #19
Lives for gear
 
jindrich's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I think the 5088 is a great console, but cant believe how they missed THAT much on its routing scheme, still while on the drawing board. Honestly, I could have done it better (have designed some stuff) and I am no Rupert at all by any means.


To the point: there's no selectable insert point, so you can't compare with/without insert processing unless reaching each outboard piece. Worse, inputs to the console are "tape", "line" or "buss "(penthouse), which in the practise makes it a total mess of manual patching if you do both tracking and mixing. Example:

Preamp (or preamp+eq) on penthouse, connected thru "buss". How to insert outboard inbetween? no way.
Comp on penthouse connected thru "buss". How to insert an EQ after the comp? no way.

Now, use the "Line" input instead to connect the penthouse pre/comp/eq modules to the mixer. Ok, now you can insert outboard stuff thru the patchbay anyway you like. You're tracking, everything goes smooht, great. Now you want to listen back to tape and therefore you select "tape" to hear the D/A returns: ALL your penthouse+outboard are out of he path now, you have to manually reconnect in the patchbay, every single channel, every single module, every single piece, to have porticos EQ/Comp and outboard back in the path.

etc, etc.

I spent a week thinking about all this when I first saw the desk at some show when it was introduced, and couldn't believe it.

Josh, if I didnt understand its work-flow, I apologize, but please tell me then where I'm mistaken.
Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #20
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
?

Josh,

Yes, I meant two....... I would like to hear rthe answer to the above question
Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #21
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jindrich ➑️
I think the 5088 is a great console, but cant believe how they missed THAT much on its routing scheme, still while on the drawing board. Honestly, I could have done it better (have designed some stuff) and I am no Rupert at all by any means.


To the point: there's no selectable insert point, so you can't compare with/without insert processing unless reaching each outboard piece. Worse, inputs to the console are "tape", "line" or "buss "(penthouse), which in the practise makes it a total mess of manual patching if you do both tracking and mixing. Example:

Preamp (or preamp+eq) on penthouse, connected thru "buss". How to insert outboard inbetween? no way.
Comp on penthouse connected thru "buss". How to insert an EQ after the comp? no way.

Now, use the "Line" input instead to connect the penthouse pre/comp/eq modules to the mixer. Ok, now you can insert outboard stuff thru the patchbay anyway you like. You're tracking, everything goes smooht, great. Now you want to listen back to tape and therefore you select "tape" to hear the D/A returns: ALL your penthouse+outboard are out of he path now, you have to manually reconnect in the patchbay, every single channel, every single module, every single piece, to have porticos EQ/Comp and outboard back in the path.

etc, etc.

I spent a week thinking about all this when I first saw the desk at some show when it was introduced, and couldn't believe it.

Josh, if I didnt understand its work-flow, I apologize, but please tell me then where I'm mistaken.
You seem to be missing quite a bit in terms of workflow, perhaps it's just how things are labeled at our end. for instance the 5032 Mic Pre EQ that most use in tracking has both a mic and line input. Simply plug the out from your DAW into the line input. Hit the switch and you're bringing the daw through the eq and into the desk. No repatching required, this is how Jeff has the desk setup at Infrasonic. He has a very elegant setup on his 32 that incorporated 2" 16 track, and ProTools HD, and it doesn't miss a trick. I believe that providing this flexibility plus the 3 separate inputs on the 5088 itself opens up all options. Sure you need to think through a couple rows of patchbay normaling, but no big shakes. Most folks have a patchpoint between penthouse and desk so that they can easily put in any outboard gear. With the 3 inputs you can also run from the bus out to the bus in on the desk, use the line out of the portico and the line in on the desk. In that instance you can simply toggle between 'buss' and 'line' to hear the inserted and non-inserted signal if that is integral to your workflow. You still have the 'tape' input to confidence monitor off of the DAW/Tape Machine. Forget labels, it's just inputs and outputs, and we have enough of each to get the job done.

If you PM me your phone number I'd be happy to talk you through various and sundry options for different workflows, and production needs.

About to get on my flight back to Austin. Big ups to Long Beach Airport for Free wi-fi!

Best,

Josh
Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #22
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
???

5032 module is the only one with this feature how about the 5015????
Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #23
Lives for gear
 
jindrich's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Thanx Josh,

I understand what you're saying, but the 5032 (pre+eq) is the only one that allows this flexibility as far as I know. It might be a great module for tracking, but the EQ is too limited for mixing, so you won't populate a penthouse with those, but rather with the full eq, comps, etc.

Believe me when i'm saying that I spent a week drawing all possible workflows and found it a bit problematic overall. It's true that you can connect any penthouse module to the mixer trhu the "bus" as well as to the "line" anytime, so, giving that the line I/O are normalled to a patchbay, you can insert outboard there, and by toggling the "line/buss" switch you can get sort of a "insert in/out", but that doesnt work with all modules, for instance, with the EQ 5033, you'd put an external comp usually BEFORE the eq, so the line/bus switch doesn't do the trick (as it would always have the comp in the path). Same with the pre+eq module 5032, etc.


On the other hand, there isn't an clear way to switch sources input/tape, if you want to use the penthouse modules. For instance you have EQ (5033) in the penthouse. You'd usually have D/A normalled (thru pachtbay) to the EQ 5033 line in (and not the mixer "tape"), so you're always ready to hit play and have tracks coming thru your eq and mixer. That's perfect if you're only mixing, but what if you want to track too?

You'd have an outboard pre>optional comp>5033>mixer. That means you're using the 5033 line in, and there's no way to listen to D/A this way, unless you had connected that D/A to the mixer "Tape" input, which means you'd never have the 5033 eq ready to be on the path anytime. Alternatively, you could put the outboard pre>optional comp> into the mixer "line" or "tape" input, and then your D/A can be normalled to the 5033>Bus/line, right, but that means you won't be able to track with your 5033 eq if you wanted so.

etc, etc

I think the problem lies in the fact that, because of the desk modularity, input selection is at the line mixer level, which is too late on the path. I drew and thought heavily about a lot of alternatives back then, and found out that it could have been solved in the first place if the mixer would have included switches to reorder the inputs in the overall path. But I'm afraid it's too late for that now.


Anyway, don't want to criticise the board, which I know it's solid and the modules are pretty good. But as a whole they don't integrate the way I would have preferred, like in a traditional console where you have the insert points and can put them anywhere before or after the desk own's eq (and comp if included). with the 5088 you might have the modules there, in front of you, but you'd have to reach the patchbay too often to be able to use them.
Old 31st January 2009 | Show parent
  #24
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
The 5015 has the ability as well, and offers a full featured compressor. The 5032 covers about 90% of the stuff that most come up against, if you need to take say, the ring out of a tom, and boost a close fundamental, then yes a 5033 is in order.

And honestly I think that I have solved every scenario except the one where you have the 5033 Five Band Eq and want to monitor through it on from 2 different inputs, and it must be on a switch and you would refuse to go to a patchbay for this and require it on a switch. Between Rupert, Hutch and myself I'm sure that we could have sorted something for you ;-). We're willing to work with customers to make sure that the product we supply them with is one that they will be happy with and serve them well for years to come.

The idea from the beginning was to create a system that could be adapted to the various working requirements of the engineer/producer. We didn't set out to make a traditional analog mixer, but rather a product to address the current work paradigm with an unrivaled sonic pedigree and performance. Is it the right console for everyone......absolutely not, but if you were to call Jeff over at Infrasonic and go through his integration I think that you would find a flexible, throrough and elegant solution covering tracking, overdub and mix scenarios.

Now to play with my kids and ponder dinner.

Best,

Josh
Old 31st January 2009 | Show parent
  #25
Lives for gear
 
dubrichie's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
sorry josh, but i don't see it happenin.

i really, really, wanted to love this console sooo much. it's beautiful in many ways, but the i/o and routing have scuppered me.

what i wanted to do:

3 switchable line inputs - line, tape, buss - for external mic preamps, tape machine, DAW... perfect!

BUT no inserts and no way to switch Portico EQs in the penthouse in/out of the channels. to use any outboard processing, including Portico penthouse modules, you have to patch.

so close, yet so far i'm afraid.

if only we could put the RND team and the ADT team in a big tumble dryer and out the other end would pop the ADT 5088 ToolMod console... RND sonics, ADT functions.
Old 31st January 2009 | Show parent
  #26
Lives for gear
 
GYang's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Useful questions jindrich, but:

I considered several customization on the console as well, like power switching on/off the group of modules in penthouse (for example if I use just couple of channels, I would not mind that bigger part of modules is off) or
patchbay configuration that exactly resolve switched inserts issue (to me switched inserts are utmost condition on mixing console), although RND doesn't typically supply patchbays.
We resolved some other issues related to packing into smaller boxes without added costs etc., etc.
Bottom line is that if one needs console with implementations of resonably more features RND will do their best to help customer get what he needs.
Actually, I might really don't need what you described as your wishes, so I don't see it as drawback (different workflow, no tracking through console at all for example), but compared to all existing choices with such level of sonic capabilities (so far I consider this console as the best sounding 'cleanish, but with character' console on the market) 5088 offers the most what I need from analogue console.
Actually what I really don't need is hybrid between console and DAW controller (I prefer simple, but separate DAW controllers) and in this respect 5088 is exactly what doctor ordered.
I heard couple of raw mixes on 5088 and I can hardly ask for more, on the contrary when later I put hands on some older desks I was hugelly disappointed with lack of transparence, noise floor and distortion.
It might be matter of taste, but I prefer high resolution, depth, clean and nice path over anything else that might attract particular sound afficionados.
Old 31st January 2009 | Show parent
  #27
TRW
Lives for gear
 
TRW's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Strikes me that a lot of what dubrichie and jindrich want can be achieved with a patchbay and fingers crossed, outboard gear with a bypass switch.

What's wrong with a good old patchbay dudes? Surely the heart of a good studio.

It doesn't take any effort to roll over there and plug a few in!

-T
Old 31st January 2009 | Show parent
  #28
Lives for gear
 
dubrichie's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
of course i would have any console fully wired to a patchbay, the issue is how much patching is required to accomplish the most basic of routing tasks with the 5088.

it's far too much, in my opinion. it would dramatically effect the ergonomics of tracking and mixing on the console.

a console of this quality, pedigree and price should have switched inserts per channel.

the "Buss" system should have been implemented differently. there should be a "Buss" or "Portico" switch on each channel that would switch in and out the chosen Portico processor in the penthouse. this would allow the use of the Portico EQs, compressors, etc., on any input signal that is selected to feed the channel from the 3 line inputs.

you would have your external mic preamps, tape returns and DAW returns connected to the 3 line inputs per channel and you could use the Portico processors in the penthouses on whichever source was currently selected to feed each channel with the flick of a switch.

as it stands it's patch, patch and patch again. an ergonomic disaster.

it's such a shame that RND came so close to getting the 5088 so brilliantly RIGHT but made such strange choices for the implementation of routing and the integration of the Portico processors. i'm baffled and saddened in equal measure. i wanted to love this console so much, but alas, 'tis not to be.
Old 31st January 2009 | Show parent
  #29
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
Richie,
What you're asking for, I believe can be accomplished. I also think you should fly out to LA and see how the Infrasonic desk has been setup, similar to your original request to manage 3 inputs (in their case 2", DAW and Portico).

Besides that the weather is great in LA. I'll give you a call on Monday, I think that I may have a solution in hand for you.

Best,

Josh
Old 31st January 2009 | Show parent
  #30
Lives for gear
 
dubrichie's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Josh,

no worries man, thanks for your replies.

i'm currently looking at consoles and hoping to buy one at the end of the year, pending growing the business and being able to afford the investment.

right now i can't afford a console, or even a flight to LA!
πŸ“ Reply

Similar Threads

Thread / Thread Starter Replies / Views Last Post
replies: 136 views: 15803
Avatar for TonyBelmont
TonyBelmont 21st March 2007
replies: 19 views: 27790
Avatar for Whoopysnorp
Whoopysnorp 10th September 2020
replies: 52 views: 8751
Avatar for Sephias
Sephias 14th November 2015
replies: 139 views: 17872
Avatar for slipper
slipper 2nd March 2021
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearspace Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…

Forum Jump
Forum Jump