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Old 27th January 2009 | Show parent
  #61
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ulysses's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by abit ➑️
How about a fuse?
The problem is that if the voltage selector is set for 115V, then the fuse is probably the value specified for 115V operation, which in many cases is double the value used in 230V operation.
Old 27th January 2009 | Show parent
  #62
Moderator
 
EveAnna Manley's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
That's correct Ulysses and until the transformer roasts its little wires you'll over-voltage the PSU caps causing wafts of smoke to escape the cans and you'll might also make some diode bridges angry too.

Fortunately everything is repairable either by our international distribution chains' service centers or our own world-famous Mr. Fix-It, Paul Fargo.

But in this case, obviously, someone will need to pay for the parts and repair as this failure would not covered by any warranty.

Glad to learn it that was not a grey market situation which is usually what we see when 120v has been assaulted by 220v, except of course when we ship the wrong voltage out ourselves! Yeah, it has happened.

OK, now that we have this clarified, I'll be reverting back to my "Evil-Anna" persona and ward off some more business.

hahahahaha You guys kill me.
Old 27th January 2009 | Show parent
  #63
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adam_f's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by EveAnna Manley ➑️
That's correct Ulysses and until the transformer roasts its little wires you'll over-voltage the PSU caps causing wafts of smoke to escape the cans and you'll might also make some diode bridges angry too.

Fortunately everything is repairable either by our international distribution chains' service centers or our own world-famous Mr. Fix-It, Paul Fargo.

But in this case, obviously, someone will need to pay for the parts and repair as this failure would not covered by any warranty.

Glad to learn it that was not a grey market situation which is usually what we see when 120v has been assaulted by 220v, except of course when we ship the wrong voltage out ourselves! Yeah, it has happened.

OK, now that we have this clarified, I'll be reverting back to my "Evil-Anna" persona and ward off some more business.

hahahahaha You guys kill me.
Paul Fargo RoCks! :D

Though I have never needed him to fix my Manley unit.
Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #64
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abit's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ulysses ➑️
The problem is that if the voltage selector is set for 115V, then the fuse is probably the value specified for 115V operation, which in many cases is double the value used in 230V operation.
Theoretically I agree with you, but..
transformer burning if switch in a wrong position....?!
I can't belive they did like that.
Fuse suppose to burn and that's it.

That's looks strange.
Unless I'm missing something.
Pardon me.
Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #65
Led
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Led's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I've done exactly this sort of thing years ago with an LA3A. Got it from the US, swapped the fuse to the Australian rated one, changed the plug, turned it on and thought "wow those vu's are bright". Then the magic smoke started coming out of the top and I'd pretty much fried the transformer along with some components. I'd forgotten to flip the switch and it was still set to 110V.

I bought a MP some time ago. It was originally purchased from a dealer in the US. I bought it from the original owner here in Oz and it was still set to 110, but had a slightly different setup to the one in the manual. I wanted to know about that and a few other things to do with it and emailed Manley. I got a long and friendly email back (I think from Hutch maybe? was a while ago) that answered everything and was really helpful, even though I wasn't the guy that bought it from them and I was in another country to where it was sold.
Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #66
Lives for gear
 
spitfire8898's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
It is a bit odd that instead of unplugging the unit, the genius grabbed his video camera
Don't know what to think about that
Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #67
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jjblair's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ulysses ➑️
To be clear: No, I am not offering EveAnna Manley a job at my company.
Yes. I'm sure she wants to leave her company behind and go work at Roll.

That you guys are getting bent out of shape by Eve Anna's response is ridiculous. It's nothing like what wee have seen from Stayne and others.

I've owned Manley gear for 14 years, and the helpfulness and service has been excellent, always. Eve Anna has always treated me terrificly, and I've never heard a bad word about her, unlike some of the other idiot manufacturers who have outright attacked their customers and critics online. She made a snarky comment that was quite funny. Big freaing deal.

You girls need to lighten up.
Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #68
Lives for gear
 
24-96 Mastering's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjblair ➑️

That you guys are getting bent out of shape by Eve Anna's response is ridiculous. It's nothing like what wee have seen from Stayne and others.

...snip...

She made a snarky comment that was quite funny. Big freaing deal. You girls need to lighten up.
You know, over here in europe, many distributors ACTUALLY mean that sentiment that Eve-anna apparently said in humour. Over here, if you want a paid modification done or want a replacement part (not even warranty), the distributor usually checks the serial for whether it was oringinally imported by them or not. And if it wasn't, you'd better have a good explanation why you didn't get it from them.

So excuse me for not getting / appreciating the humour in this case. It's just too close to reality here.
Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #69
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noiseflaw's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjblair ➑️

You girls need to lighten up.
Uh oh!

Ok Macho Man.
Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #70
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ulysses's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by abit ➑️
Theoretically I agree with you, but..
transformer burning if switch in a wrong position....?!
I can't belive they did like that.
Fuse suppose to burn and that's it.

That's looks strange.
Unless I'm missing something.
Pardon me.
No, I agree with you. I'm just telling you about an additional factor that exacerbates the problem. It's possible (and not all that difficult) to build a circuit that won't be damaged by overvoltage, or will immediately blow the fuse. The question is whether you want to make every customer pay for protection that most users won't need. If the majority of your sales are in the US, where incorrect position of the voltage selector switch won't hurt you (because the unit gets a lower voltage than it's expecting), this may be a lot of extra cost without a lot of benefit. But a few extra $0.10 components to protect a $25 transformer against a simple user error seems like a wise investment for a manufacturer to make.



Quote:
Originally Posted by jjblair ➑️
Yes. I'm sure she wants to leave her company behind and go work at Roll.

That you guys are getting bent out of shape by Eve Anna's response is ridiculous. It's nothing like what wee have seen from Stayne and others.

I've owned Manley gear for 14 years, and the helpfulness and service has been excellent, always. Eve Anna has always treated me terrificly, and I've never heard a bad word about her, unlike some of the other idiot manufacturers who have outright attacked their customers and critics online. She made a snarky comment that was quite funny. Big freaing deal.

You girls need to lighten up.
If you think I was being serious while she was joking, then I'd say your humor detection circuit is out of calibration. You've got a polarity inversion happening in there someplace.
Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #71
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by EveAnna Manley ➑️
Serves him right buying a grey market USA unit and being too stupid to know that a 120volt unit is going to smoke when fed 240v. RTFM and support your local dealer and too bad about the warranty you do not have.
Man, I've got a MP and now I hope it never has a problem because I don't wan't to call Manley and be told it "serves me right" and I'm "stupid" because of something I may or may not have done.
Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #72
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Tone Laborer's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
I bet he'll remember to check the switch next time.
Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #73
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vernier's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Btw, EveAnna rocks!

I'm a fan. Always was. And always will be.

'
Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #74
Moderator
 
EveAnna Manley's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Whew! Thanks Vernier and J.J. Lots of poooooor meeee thin-skin on this thread!

Lemme see what the guys are blowing up today here at the shop so I can go yell at someone, you know, 'cause I am so mean and I hate all people, especially employees! And customers! The worst! Why won't they all just GO AWAY?

Old 28th January 2009 | Show parent
  #75
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jjblair's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Really guys? Well, first off, I think she used great restraint. The title of the thread is misleading, and unless you read the description and understand electricity, the fact that this mishap is operator error does not come across. One could easily get the impression that this is an unsafe and faulty piece of gear, so I would have expected a stronger reaction from some on that alone.

As far as the humor goes, I'm referring to the "serves him right" part. If you've sent as much stuff for service over the years to them as I have, and were familiar with their excellence in this area, even when the damage was because I did something stupid, you would know her tongue is in her cheek.

And the fact is that she cares about her distributors enough to get pissed that somebody circumvented them. She's obviously pissed about that, and I respect her more, because her ire is drawn because somebody screwed one of her distributors, not because somebody put up a video that could make her product look faulty.

Instead, you pansies are like, "What a bitch. Remind me not to buy from you or hire you."
Old 29th January 2009 | Show parent
  #76
Lives for gear
 
24-96 Mastering's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjblair ➑️
As far as the humor goes, I'm referring to the "serves him right" part.

snip

Instead, you pansies are like (snip!!!)


Hey, here's a wacky thought: could it be that you live in LA and have no experience whatsoever with international distributors? Could it be that you simply don't know what those "pansies" are on about, that the "serves him right" part is often reality?

So go on, tell us what your take on the matter is. Would you pay 10-50% more so that you are able to buy spare parts later? Or would you rather pay the actual US product price (plus shipping & import tax), save unnecessary expense and have the distributor (and the manufacturer) laugh in your face when you're in trouble? (And no, it's not humour, it's for real.)

.

(To be fair: Manley distribution is one of the better ones, sticking reasonably close to the US price. There are much, much worse out there, employing more extreme (and partly illegal, by the way) restrictive trade tactics.)
Old 29th January 2009 | Show parent
  #77
Moderator
 
narcoman's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by EveAnna Manley ➑️
Whew! Thanks Vernier and J.J. Lots of poooooor meeee thin-skin on this thread!

Lemme see what the guys are blowing up today here at the shop so I can go yell at someone, you know, 'cause I am so mean and I hate all people, especially employees! And customers! The worst! Why won't they all just GO AWAY?

naaah. Tis just about respect that's all.....

.... as for customers going away - well, cry on with yer "sense o humour" and they might! Doesn't bother me - and I'll still buy yer stuff (along with the other $40k I've spent with ya) even though I might think you're now a bit mean on the lil guy.....
Old 29th January 2009 | Show parent
  #78
Lives for gear
 
24-96 Mastering's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by EveAnna Manley ➑️
Whew! Thanks Vernier and J.J. Lots of poooooor meeee thin-skin on this thread!

No poor meee thin-skin, just no sense of humour here on the subject of restrictive trade practices. It's reality and it sucks. "Serves him right", to me, doesn't read as funny, I read it as cynical.

That said, I'm German, it's probably my underdeveloped sense of humour.
Old 29th January 2009 | Show parent
  #79
Moderator
 
EveAnna Manley's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Ok let's get serious here for a minute. The reason why Manley's distribution network is established, stable, mature, fair, responsive, and pricing exhibits decent parity and fairness around the globe is exactly because I have set rules and boundaries for distributors, dealers, and customers, and I monitor behaviors of these entities and I enforce these rules. (No use having rules that are not enforced).

This traditional system I follow still does work for the good of everyone involved in the chain starting with my suppliers through manufcture through distribution and sales channels and most importantly years down the road for the customer for whom we do all this for in fact. If the customer is not serviced properly then our pockets, and the dealers, and the distributors, and my suppliers don't get full of gold coins, right?

This system works for most everyone except for the folks who don't understand or value what it provides and go buy a grey market or used device to save a few euro now that might cost more later, if it needs service. On the flipside, not everyone wants to purposefully buy grey market or used gear either. Most people don't want to bother with buying gear from another country thousands of miles and oceans away.


This is my 20th year in this biz so I come typing to you with vast experience managing worldwide distribution of audio gear in both pro studio and high end Hifi markets. This tradtionsl distribution model we employ certainly is not unique to Manley Labs, and it does function well, whether you understand how or why is works or not.


I build and sell gear around the world and that's what I do for a living. You guys record music and that's your field of expertise. Fair to say?
Old 29th January 2009 | Show parent
  #80
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syra's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by EveAnna Manley ➑️
This system works for most everyone except for the folks who don't understand or value what it provides and go buy a grey market or used device to save a few euro now that might cost more later, if it needs service.
I don't agree with that. At all. I should be "scared" to buy used gear now? The manufacturer will punish me for buying a used unit? Almost all of the hi-end boutique manufacturers will service your unit regardless of where it came from. And some times even for FREE! Just read all the "I got this used unit out of warranty and X company fixed for freeeee. I love them!" posts.

If someone wants to buy your product bypassing your established channels, there is a reason for it. Usually money. No one would buy a Massive Passive abroad to save 200 Euros... for 800 maybe.
Old 29th January 2009 | Show parent
  #81
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Audio Hombre's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by EveAnna Manley ➑️

This is my 20th year in this biz so I come typing to you with vast experience managing worldwide distribution of audio gear in both pro studio and high end Hifi markets.
yet you fail to exhibit basic customer service 101 skills? i have a pretty extensive customer service background and was actually appalled by your response. you come back all cute,bubbly and 'funny', but if you read your first post, there was nothing close to your cute bubbly persona you exhibit in the following posts. it was frankly, way off side, let alone being presumptions, as nobody has any idea what really happened there.

the fact that a good many people found your response to be very unprofessional (for someone in your position,) is no coincidence,regardless of guys like vern and jj coming to your aid and throwing down their coats for you to cross the puddle.many like me don't know you like those cats do, so i could care less what their opinion is.

i'm sure you're a great person, for real, but the fact that you haven't even made an effort to ease peoples initial opinions of you based on this post, i find to be very odd and a decision i'd dare to say is even affected by ego. a simple "wow, sorry if my response seemed harsh but......." would have even loosened the opinion i have formed of your customer service skills, seeing that this is the first impression i've had of you, and your company's staff.

sorry, just calling it like i see it. again, i have a lot of experience in customer service and this response was plain awful and unprofessional. i remember awhile back where dan kennedy went off and was called on it and he immediately apologized, as a man in his position should. straight up and restored my faith in the man behind a great product line

you guys make great gear but so do numerous others in such a competitive business,
Old 29th January 2009 | Show parent
  #82
Moderator
 
EveAnna Manley's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Read our warranty statement again and it should be clear what is covered and free and what is non-warranty or not covered and does not come free.
Old 29th January 2009 | Show parent
  #83
Lives for gear
 
drmmrboy's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by vernier ➑️
Under the worst conditions you might get smoke, but not flames. Gear is built that way. So, the title should say "smoke", not "fire". Big difference.
'
"Massive Passive Explodes!!" news @ 11..
Old 29th January 2009 | Show parent
  #84
Lives for gear
 
MIKEHARRIS's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I have been a pro audio dealer for30 years...and Manley is among the best manufacturers when it comes to quality & customer service....and both their rules and Dolby's are designed to keep it that way.
They establish distributors in other countries so the local customers can receive a support & service level they feel the customer is entitled to.

Price is not the only reason international customers buy here in the US...often customs duties are outrageous...in some cases 200%. Everyone has a family member traveling to Miami.
If we have an inquiry from an international customer...I check with Manley & Dolby to see if they have set up a local distributor & if we have permission to make the sale.

Its you ...the customer...whose interests are being served
Old 29th January 2009 | Show parent
  #85
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audio Hombre ➑️
must be that time of the month.hostile.way to represent! stike thumbsup

Very classy.

What would have been an appropriate response from Ms. Manley ?

The title of the thread IS misleading and could easily imply that there is a defect with the product...which there is clearly not. The defect was in the improper use of the product. Manley has a stellar reputation. Eve Anna has every right to make it clear that this situation was user error and not a fault in the product or in Manley's quality control.

Rock.
-315hz
Old 29th January 2009 | Show parent
  #86
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jjblair's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
"must be that time of the month.hostile.way to represent"

Wow, did Audio Hombre really say that? Consider me never caring about how he judges somebody else's behavior.

Did you learn offensive sexist comments from your extensive customer service background?

EveAnna, you've made your point. Some of these guys don't get it. I'd stop posting on this thread, after that one. They don't deserve your presence.
Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #87
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24-96 Mastering's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIKEHARRIS ➑️
If we have an inquiry from an international customer...I check with Manley & Dolby to see if they have set up a local distributor & if we have permission to make the sale.

Its you ...the customer...whose interests are being served
Some call it a service in the best interest of the customer, others call it good old fashioned price fixing by restricting sales. Depends on perspective, I guess.

Anway... so if I understand you correctly, you are saying that the higher price we pay at our local distributor is what keeps the local distribution in place, so really, we should thank the distributors for restricting sales, for not giving us the ability to make a value decision, that judgement of expense vs. benefit ourselves. If left to our own devices, we would ruin our own sevice network. Well thanks for protecting us from harming ourselves. Now if only we had some sort of wall around the country to protect us from all the other dangers of a free market.



All fun aside, restricting sales and price fixing happens all the time in pro audio distribution. Even within the EU. We're all used to it (illegal as it is in many cases)... but that doesn't mean we have to like it. And for god's sake, don't tell us that such restrictions are for our own good. Of all people, those in the US (with that implanted hate for anything even remotely smelling of communism) surely understand how reading that just feels just a little bit icky. A free market is a good thing. Those who suggest otherwise usually have something to gain from taking control.

Don't get me wrong, I apreciate having a local distributor. And I get that that is a service for which I am willing to pay a little extra. But I alone shall be the judge of how much that luxury is worth to me. An offer for a service at a given price is fair and square. OTOH restrictions in sales and service to enforce a monopoly are just not acceptable. That's just soooo last century :p
Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #88
Lives for gear
 
24-96 Mastering's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by EveAnna Manley ➑️
Ok let's get serious here for a minute. The reason why Manley's distribution network is established, stable, mature, fair, responsive, and pricing exhibits decent parity and fairness around the globe is exactly because I have set rules and boundaries for distributors, dealers, and customers, and I monitor behaviors of these entities and I enforce these rules. (No use having rules that are not enforced).

This traditional system I follow still does work for the good of everyone involved in the chain starting with my suppliers through manufcture through distribution and sales channels and most importantly years down the road for the customer for whom we do all this for in fact. If the customer is not serviced properly then our pockets, and the dealers, and the distributors, and my suppliers don't get full of gold coins, right?

This system works for most everyone except for the folks who don't understand or value what it provides and go buy a grey market or used device to save a few euro now that might cost more later, if it needs service. On the flipside, not everyone wants to purposefully buy grey market or used gear either. Most people don't want to bother with buying gear from another country thousands of miles and oceans away.


This is my 20th year in this biz so I come typing to you with vast experience managing worldwide distribution of audio gear in both pro studio and high end Hifi markets. This tradtionsl distribution model we employ certainly is not unique to Manley Labs, and it does function well, whether you understand how or why is works or not.


I build and sell gear around the world and that's what I do for a living. You guys record music and that's your field of expertise. Fair to say?
You're great, your products are great and you're surely doing a great job selling them. (No sarcasm)

And in all truth, I'd rather be having this kind of argument with a different manufacturer.

But some aspects of international distribution still feel icky, so maybe you can register that some guy in Germany thinks that:

1. It doesn't "serve him right", no matter how stupid he is. If that was humour, it wasn't funny.

2. There is a lot of illegal regional sales restriction and price fixing with regards to pro audio distributors and shops wihin the EU. I don't want to explicitly imply that Manley's distributors are doing that, but this is where old model distribution rules and current law potentially clash.

3. That grey market myth is getting old. A unit is only grey if it's imported without paying import tax and customs (between 10 and 20% in most of Europe). And anyone with a business registered gets that amount back. So they have nothing to gain by importing "grey". Distributors seem to confuse the words grey and used. Well sure, you like to sell new units. Some folks like to buy used. And that's what it's really about. Some people buy 2nd hand, some buy new. There's just no need to try and send them on a guilt trip or make them feel stupid ("you'll pay more in the end")...

4. Just because someone disagrees in details does not mean that they don't "understand" the benefits of local distribution. They may just understand the benefits as well as the drawbacks - and weigh them differently. Or just disagree in some details.
Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #89
Gear Guru
 
Sqye's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by 24-96 Mastering ➑️
You're great, your products are great and you're surely doing a great job selling them.

And in all truth, I'd rather be having this kind of argument with a different manufacturer.

But some aspects of international distribution still feel icky, so maybe you can register that some guy in Germany thinks that:

1. It doesn't "serve him right", no matter how stupid he is. If that was humour, it wasn't funny.
2. There is a lot of illegal regional sales restriction and price fixing with regards to pro audio distributors and shops wihin the EU. I don't want to explicitly imply that Manley's distributors are doing that, but this is where old model distribution rules and current law potentially clash.
3. That grey market myth is getting old. A unit is only grey if it's imported without paying import tax and customs (between 10 and 20% in most of Europe). And anyone with a business registered gets that amount back. So they have nothing to gain by importing "grey". Distributors seem to confuse the words grey and used. Well sure, you like to sell new units. Some folks like to buy used. And that's what it's really about.
.

good post.

my wife (also german, and in high-end IT customer service for corporate law firms here in nyc)
was shocked when she read EM's response.

OTOH, i see the reality of all this:
...this is high-end. obviously, manley has their high-end reputation and client base for a reason.

and this thread title, and video, are also shocking, and potentially damaging to manley here.

i don't own any manley products.

however, i would hope that they would treat me like a king, whether i bought new, used, grey, black, or whatever market product...as well as whether or not i was a genius or moron user...

again, though, i'm sure most high-end clients can attest to manley's product and customer service.

.
Old 30th January 2009 | Show parent
  #90
Lives for gear
 
jjblair's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
BTW, if you don't like paying those taxes, just remember where the money for your socialized medicine and all that comes from. VATs aren't just there to be unfair.
πŸ“ Reply

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