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Massive Passive smokes!
Old 26th January 2009 | Show parent
  #31
Gear Addict
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jax ➑️
I agree. No one would walk around filming their MP burning for a good ten seconds, and pretending to be shocked ("...****") unless they wanted attention. I think he put something under the hood (ashtray?).
We have to get to the bottom of this!

Someone with a 110V Massive Passive send it to me and I'll try to replicate the experiment!
Old 26th January 2009 | Show parent
  #32
Lives for gear
 
24-96 Mastering's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by EveAnna Manley ➑️
Serves him right buying a grey market USA unit and being too stupid to know that a 120volt unit is going to smoke when fed 240v. RTFM and support your local dealer and too bad about the warranty you do not have.
Everyone I know that is willing to spend $4xxx on an equalizer has nothing to gain from a grey import because they'd get import tax back later anyway. I think the terms grey import and grey market are exclusively used by audio distributors and manufacturers for some strange reason that I can't fathom...

With all due respect (both for you and for Christian Reichardt), if a manufacturer wants to protect overseas distributors, they have to make sure that the gear (excl. import tax) costs the same everywhere. Blaming someone for importing a unit because they want to save money seems bizarre to me. They shouldn't be able to save a significant amount of money in the first place. If they can, there's something not quite right with the distribution system.

And actually, Manley prices aren't that far off between the US and EU (in contrast to some other pro audio makes). So clearly, you are doing a good job. I don't see why anyone would want to import Manley... unless one is buying a second hand occasion item from overseas - in which case neither Manley nor a distributor loses a sale, so no harm is done.

So... umm... I'm confused. What is the problem here? Why the Schadenfreude? Importing a new Manley doesn't really make sense. And if it did, the customer would be the last person I'd blame for that circumstance. Am I missing something?



And fwiw, I think that video is a fake. How could anyone watch their MP burn and not do anything about it?!? It's agonising!
Old 27th January 2009 | Show parent
  #33
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
I think that video is taken after it is unplugged. I had some electronics at my previous house and one day I flicked a light switch in the room, it caused a short in the 60 year old wires (the insulation on the wires deteriorated and finally burned through) and it caused 220V to go to the 110V electronics in the room. It burned up a TV, some light bulbs, and my stereo. The stereo started smoking just like that Manley and it was really slow smoke and it lasted for 10 minutes. So I think that video is real and the guy could have grabbed the camera a couple minutes after it happened.
Old 27th January 2009 | Show parent
  #34
Moderator
 
narcoman's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by 24-96 Mastering ➑️
Everyone I know that is willing to spend $4xxx on an equalizer has nothing to gain from a grey import because they'd get import tax back later anyway. I think the terms grey import and grey market are exclusively used by audio distributors and manufacturers for some strange reason that I can't fathom...

With all due respect (both for you and for Christian Reichardt), if a manufacturer wants to protect overseas distributors, they have to make sure that the gear (excl. import tax) costs the same everywhere. Blaming someone for importing a unit because they want to save money seems bizarre to me. They shouldn't be able to save a significant amount of money in the first place. If they can, there's something not quite right with the distribution system.

And actually, Manley prices aren't that far off between the US and EU (in contrast to some other pro audio makes). So clearly, you are doing a good job. I don't see why anyone would want to import Manley... unless one is buying a second hand occasion item from overseas - in which case neither Manley nor a distributor loses a sale, so no harm is done.

So... umm... I'm confused. What is the problem here? Why the Schadenfreude? Importing a new Manley doesn't really make sense. And if it did, the customer would be the last person I'd blame for that circumstance. Am I missing something?



And fwiw, I think that video is a fake. How could anyone watch their MP burn and not do anything about it?!? It's agonising!
As I say, the switch is to the left !
Old 27th January 2009 | Show parent
  #35
Lives for gear
 
24-96 Mastering's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by narcoman ➑️
As I say, the switch is to the left !
Ah, goody... I hope so. That movie is pretty much a pro-audio version of "Faces Of Death".
Old 27th January 2009 | Show parent
  #36
Lives for gear
 
JoeyM's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by EveAnna Manley ➑️
Serves him right buying a grey market USA unit and being too stupid to know that a 120volt unit is going to smoke when fed 240v. RTFM and support your local dealer and too bad about the warranty you do not have.
No wonder Manleys sound killer, there's four times the magic smoke in there

Someone got the genie pissed though
Old 27th January 2009 | Show parent
  #37
Lives for gear
 
iangomes's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
that seems likely... at least i'd take a video after I had unplugged it if it started smoking
Old 27th January 2009 | Show parent
  #38
Gear Nut
 
wheatus's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by EveAnna Manley ➑️
Serves him right buying a grey market USA unit and being too stupid to know that a 120volt unit is going to smoke when fed 240v. RTFM and support your local dealer and too bad about the warranty you do not have.

owned by the queen....

brendan b brown
wheatus.com
Old 27th January 2009 | Show parent
  #39
Moderator
 
narcoman's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by EveAnna Manley ➑️
Serves him right buying a grey market USA unit and being too stupid to know that a 120volt unit is going to smoke when fed 240v. RTFM and support your local dealer and too bad about the warranty you do not have.
I've a lot of Manley gear - all bought through local dealers you'll be pleased to know. The thing that concerns me - are you saying that Manley VOIDS warranty if you self import?

I have many items bought from the USA directly - all with valid warranty, even had a few things fixed (the only issue being the time and freight - but it was still cheaper at the time)....Can you clarify your position....?

cheers
Old 27th January 2009 | Show parent
  #40
Moderator
 
EveAnna Manley's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Yes of course!

Manley Labs Warranty Policy
Old 27th January 2009 | Show parent
  #41
Lives for gear
 
ArcCirDude's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Two comments:

1. If this silly video WASN'T a hoax, then the problem isn't simply having plugged the MP into a 220 while set to 110. If that were the case the fuse would have blown immediately. That's why we have fuses....

2. As far as grey market goes, the Norwegian kroner has been very strong against the dollar for the past 8 years or so. When I can buy equipment from the U.S. and save 50% I'll do it. That's just good business sense. My warranty is good at the store from where I purchased the item. If something goes wrong, I send it back to the store in the U.S. The cost of shipping there and back is nowhere near the the amount of money I originally saved by purchasing from the U.S.

An example: When I bought my Tube Tech SMC 2B, which is made here in Scandinavia (Denmark), I bought it from a dealer in the states for 20,000 kroner. Had I purchased it in Norway, the price would have been 40,000 kroner. That's the equivalent of getting it for $2500 instead of $4500. Now, when I started my studio in 2002 I invested over $100,000. By buying from the U.S. I was able to establish a well equipped studio instead of a so-so equipped studio. Imagine getting a matched pair of Wunder CM7's for $6000 instead of $12,000. I did....

P.S. I'm very fond of my Massive Passive, EveAnna.
Old 27th January 2009 | Show parent
  #42
Lives for gear
 
ulysses's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by EveAnna Manley ➑️
Serves him right buying a grey market USA unit and being too stupid to know that a 120volt unit is going to smoke when fed 240v. RTFM and support your local dealer and too bad about the warranty you do not have.
If your product is designed to be mains voltage selectable because you intend for it to be used worldwide and with both mains voltages, you had better make sure the thing doesn't catch on fire when you feed it the wrong voltage. I'm sorry, but that's even more important than what it sounds like. Dead customers aren't repeat customers and their listening skills are diminished anyway. The legalese in your warranty about exclusion of consequential damage isn't going to protect you from liability when you burn somebody's house down. If this happened to one of my products, I would be profoundly embarrassed and apologetic and I would probably fix it for free. It's not likely to happen to my products though, because this scenario had occurred to me before today.

If you're going to accuse your customers of violating your policies, you should make sure you know what you're talking about. Somebody in the Youtube comments accuses him of buying greymarket, and he makes it very clear that he did no such thing. He says he rented this from a rental house that services markets in both mains-voltage worlds. They forgot to tell him it was set for 120V.

If you are pissed off about people in Europe buying greymarket, I can only assume that's because it happens a lot. If your products cost that much more in the European market than they do at home, then somebody in the distribution chain is doing something wrong. Hint: It's not the customer. Blaming them will not solve your problem. And what about customers who refuse to remain in the country where they purchased your product? Are you going to void their warranty too? We want a level playing field for our European dealers too. Our solution is to get the dealers to sell at comparable prices, and politely remind the customer that they still owe VAT even if they buy greymarket. Our solution does not involve getting mad and insulting the customer.

If your gear catches fire due to an honest mistake by the end user and your reaction is to call your customer stupid and void their warranty, are you helping or hurting your brand's reputation?

To be clear: No, I am not offering EveAnna Manley a job at my company.
Old 27th January 2009 | Show parent
  #43
Lives for gear
 
G-Spot's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
There's equipment that has 110V/60Hz transformers only for the American market and 220V(230V)/50Hz for the European one. You can use a 220V/110V converter in Europe but it will then run at 50Hz instead of 60Hz. From what I know (correct me if I'm wrong) the equipment will run hotter than the expected operating temperature, and it may turn to be too hot... I would be very careful doing this... if it is expensive equipment I just don't take the chance.

It would be possible to also have a frequency converter but that is something really hard to find and really expensive, any benefit of the import would be lost...


Luckily one can change the AC Main Voltage in the Massive Passive! You just have to be aware. Ha... and don't forget to change the fuse also when changing the main voltage!

Massive Passive owner's Manual (pag. 17):
http://www.manleylabs.com/PDF/PRO_Ma...20MSMPXxxx.pdf
Old 27th January 2009 | Show parent
  #44
Lives for gear
 
Nolet's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ulysses ➑️
If your gear catches fire due to an honest mistake by the end user and your reaction is to call your customer stupid and void their warranty, are you helping or hurting your brand's reputation?

+1 this is a public relations disaster if I ever saw one...
Old 27th January 2009 | Show parent
  #45
Lives for gear
 
G-Spot's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by EveAnna Manley ➑️
Serves him right buying a grey market USA unit and being too stupid to know that a 120volt unit is going to smoke when fed 240v. RTFM and support your local dealer and too bad about the warranty you do not have.
tutt This "too stupid guy" rented some of your equipment... maybe he was testing it because he was thinking in buying one... I would treat a potential customer in another way...

Your reputation as a high-end equipment manufacturer is high. You should try to match the level of your posts accordingly. Specially in forums such as this one.
Old 27th January 2009 | Show parent
  #46
Moderator
 
narcoman's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by EveAnna Manley ➑️
As far as I know, you are the only high end company that enforces the the first part of your warranty - ie the "no warranty outside the USA " element. Fortunately for us, I bought ours through a dealer.... although I do check each time.
Old 27th January 2009 | Show parent
  #47
Moderator
 
narcoman's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ulysses ➑️
If your product is designed to be mains voltage selectable because you intend for it to be used worldwide and with both mains voltages, you had better make sure the thing doesn't catch on fire when you feed it the wrong voltage. I'm sorry, but that's even more important than what it sounds like. Dead customers aren't repeat customers and their listening skills are diminished anyway. The legalese in your warranty about exclusion of consequential damage isn't going to protect you from liability when you burn somebody's house down. If this happened to one of my products, I would be profoundly embarrassed and apologetic and I would probably fix it for free. It's not likely to happen to my products though, because this scenario had occurred to me before today.

If you're going to accuse your customers of violating your policies, you should make sure you know what you're talking about. Somebody in the Youtube comments accuses him of buying greymarket, and he makes it very clear that he did no such thing. He says he rented this from a rental house that services markets in both mains-voltage worlds. They forgot to tell him it was set for 120V.

If you are pissed off about people in Europe buying greymarket, I can only assume that's because it happens a lot. If your products cost that much more in the European market than they do at home, then somebody in the distribution chain is doing something wrong. Hint: It's not the customer. Blaming them will not solve your problem. And what about customers who refuse to remain in the country where they purchased your product? Are you going to void their warranty too? We want a level playing field for our European dealers too. Our solution is to get the dealers to sell at comparable prices, and politely remind the customer that they still owe VAT even if they buy greymarket. Our solution does not involve getting mad and insulting the customer.

If your gear catches fire due to an honest mistake by the end user and your reaction is to call your customer stupid and void their warranty, are you helping or hurting your brand's reputation?

To be clear: No, I am not offering EveAnna Manley a job at my company.
spot on.
Old 27th January 2009 | Show parent
  #48
Lives for gear
 
Robert Randolph's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I'd like to thank OurDarkness for posting this intriguing video. It's like a trainwreck you can't stop staring at...

And extra thanks to Eva for helping narrow down my gear purchase decisions in my upcoming renovation
Old 27th January 2009 | Show parent
  #49
Lives for gear
 
asagaai's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by narcoman ➑️
As far as I know, you are the only high end company that enforces the the first part of your warranty - ie the "no warranty outside the USA " element. Fortunately for us, I bought ours through a dealer.... although I do check each time.

Well- my quick reading of this is if I buy say a massive passive from a dealer in Sydney-lets call the dealer Hob1, and within the warranty period Hob1 goes into receivership/wound up- then I am left rudderless without recouse for repair even though the product is defective?

As regards the exclusion of liability-assume, totally fictitious scenario here- in Oz that the unit burns as per the one in the video and the engineer burns to death in his studio. His wife, a widow with 3 kids-comes to a lawyer -all who were supported by very succesful but now very dead engineer. Wife suffers nervous shock- economically destitute. Assume Hob 1 has gone into receivership and were naughty and did not take out public/product liability.

The family would be advised to sue Manley in Australia pursuant to negligence and the Trade Practices Act 1974. And that little exclusion would mean ##@@% all to a Judge in a Federal Court under the Trade Practices Act 1974, and Manley would be forced to defend the action because the Judgement would be enforceable-yes even in the USA.

Now I think EveAnna has a very dry sense of humour and is taking the crap out of all of you - I mean come on- would she insult the very market she wants to do business with. She is just taking the piss and we are all falling for it.

I mean- it was a pretty funny video-the "scheizer" and all that, and I think EvaAnna like we all do had a knee jerk reaction at wit.

All she needs to do is to say that despite the overtly zealous lawyers who used a crappy boiler plate exclusion clause- that Manley are good guys who will look after overseas customers in the warranty period even if the local dealer goes bust, and that if a person purchases a unit second hand that is still in the warranty period and the dealer cannot honour-that Manley will do the right thing by the person who purchased the Manley.

Cause after all- if you buy Manley you think you are buying into a great stand up product - and its a 2 way symbiotic relationship as well- Manleys reputation grows and will enable sustaining of premium prices.

GJ
Newcastle/OZ
Old 27th January 2009 | Show parent
  #50
Lives for gear
 
The MPCist's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
That was a really nasty comment and I can't believe that it's come directly from Manley... Totally absurd. Some of my friends buy equipment from the States since they live here and take the equipment to where ever they happen to work--overseas is happening more and more due to the present music biz condition in the States. And you say 'serves them right?!'

Glad I don't own any Manley products anymore. I'll support more customer-friendly companies from now on.

Manley products previously owned and rid of: Massive Passive, Vari-Mu (2), ELOP, Black Mic (2), Gold Mic (3), Manley Mixers (2).
Old 27th January 2009 | Show parent
  #51
Lives for gear
 
noiseflaw's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by EveAnna Manley ➑️
Serves him right buying a grey market USA unit and being too stupid to know that a 120volt unit is going to smoke when fed 240v. RTFM and support your local dealer and too bad about the warranty you do not have.
Wow!

Lovin' the Rotweiller customer relations approach.

Grr - snap - bite - hate - attack!

stike

Ever thought about a career in the Diplomatic Core - Foreign Policy & Relations perhaps?...
Old 27th January 2009 | Show parent
  #52
Moderator
 
narcoman's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by asagaai ➑️
Well- my quick reading of this is if I buy say a massive passive from a dealer in Sydney-lets call the dealer Hob1, and within the warranty period Hob1 goes into receivership/wound up- then I am left rudderless without recouse for repair even though the product is defective?

As regards the exclusion of liability-assume, totally fictitious scenario here- in Oz that the unit burns as per the one in the video and the engineer burns to death in his studio. His wife, a widow with 3 kids-comes to a lawyer -all who were supported by very succesful but now very dead engineer. Wife suffers nervous shock- economically destitute. Assume Hob 1 has gone into receivership and were naughty and did not take out public/product liability.

The family would be advised to sue Manley in Australia pursuant to negligence and the Trade Practices Act 1974. And that little exclusion would mean ##@@% all to a Judge in a Federal Court under the Trade Practices Act 1974, and Manley would be forced to defend the action because the Judgement would be enforceable-yes even in the USA.

Now I think EveAnna has a very dry sense of humour and is taking the crap out of all of you - I mean come on- would she insult the very market she wants to do business with. She is just taking the piss and we are all falling for it.

I mean- it was a pretty funny video-the "scheizer" and all that, and I think EvaAnna like we all do had a knee jerk reaction at wit.

All she needs to do is to say that despite the overtly zealous lawyers who used a crappy boiler plate exclusion clause- that Manley are good guys who will look after overseas customers in the warranty period even if the local dealer goes bust, and that if a person purchases a unit second hand that is still in the warranty period and the dealer cannot honour-that Manley will do the right thing by the person who purchased the Manley.

Cause after all- if you buy Manley you think you are buying into a great stand up product - and its a 2 way symbiotic relationship as well- Manleys reputation grows and will enable sustaining of premium prices.

GJ
Newcastle/OZ
All good and pretty much what every other manufacturer seems to do. The only problem EveAnne has (and she may not look at this as a problem at all) is that I have very little in the way of a sense of humour when it comes to manufacturers. Actually - I have no humour at all. I am in fact a bit of a twat.


I am a robot.


a robot twat.


bbbzzzzzzz
Old 27th January 2009 | Show parent
  #53
Lives for gear
 
ulysses's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ulysses ➑️
If your product is designed to be mains voltage selectable because you intend for it to be used worldwide and with both mains voltages, you had better make sure the thing doesn't catch on fire when you feed it the wrong voltage. I'm sorry, but that's even more important than what it sounds like. Dead customers aren't repeat customers and their listening skills are diminished anyway. The legalese in your warranty about exclusion of consequential damage isn't going to protect you from liability when you burn somebody's house down. If this happened to one of my products, I would be profoundly embarrassed and apologetic and I would probably fix it for free. It's not likely to happen to my products though, because this scenario had occurred to me before today.
After sleeping on it, I think I was too harsh here. The Massive Passive in the video wasn't actually ON FIRE. It was clearly going to need some servicing. It did seem like an awful lot of smoke. If you put 230V into one of my compressors while it was set for 115V, there is a pretty good chance it would suffer some damage and need some repair. I don't think it would set off your smoke detector, and I've taken steps to try and limit the number of components that could be damaged as a result. The important thing is that the damage be contained within the chassis. In the video here, the only damage we saw extending beyond the confines of the Massive Passive chassis was smoke. Which (the surgeon general has determined) can certainly be damaging. But there were no actual flames shooting out of the box, and its potential to actually burn the house down seems limited. I do wonder what might have happened if the user HADN'T powered down the unit before he went to grab his video camera?

Anyway, sorry for overstating this point. And sorry for picking up my pitchfork and marching with the angry townspeople.
Old 27th January 2009 | Show parent
  #54
Gear Head
 
chrisD's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Burn down the house? No. Smell really, really bad for a few minutes? Yes. It's a remarkably nasty, acrid odor, as anyone who's blown up a big cap like that can attest to. Not gonna turn your studio into a big pile of coal though.

I do feel the need to defend EveAnna for a moment as well. She's taken the piss out of me many times, and I'm sure will continue to do so as long as she's so inclined. I don't blame her. We all need it sometimes.
Old 27th January 2009 | Show parent
  #55
Gear Guru
 
kafka's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent ➑️
Wow took him long enough to unplug it..
The guy later posted that it was a rental. I guess that explains both the voltage setting and his lack of urgency.
Old 27th January 2009 | Show parent
  #56
Lives for gear
 
vernier's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Erroneous thread heading . . .

Under the worst conditions you might get smoke, but not flames. Gear is built that way. So, the title should say "smoke", not "fire". Big difference.
'
Old 27th January 2009 | Show parent
  #57
Lives for gear
 
abit's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
How about a fuse?.................
Even it was a voltage switch mistake.
No?
Old 27th January 2009 | Show parent
  #58
Gear Maniac
 
duckyboard's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by byrd62au ➑️
There's no way you can get that kind of wamth ITB.
ahhahahahaha
Old 27th January 2009
  #59
Gear Addict
 
huarez's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I always knew, this unit smokes!
Old 27th January 2009 | Show parent
  #60
Lives for gear
 
Mad John's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I sure am glad that I have always a nice FAN running on my Massive Passive!
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