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U47 reissues
Old 23rd January 2009
  #1
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
U47 reissues

I plan to buy a U47 reissue mic. There are a lot of brands with several prices from 1K to 10K and my problem is, I can't listen and test non of them. What would you suggest? Witch one is worth of it the best, considering the sounf quality and prices? Wunder, Wagner, Telefunken...?
Please help me to choose the best deal!

Thanks!
Old 23rd January 2009
  #2
Lives for gear
 
dhiltonlittle's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
well, i'd start off by giving yourself a budget.

the 1600 dollar ones sound great. do they sound as good as the 8000 dollar ones? no, not to me....so the question is, are the MAJOR prices differences worth the quality gained to you. you could go middle of the road with something like the wunder cm7 gt.
Old 23rd January 2009 | Show parent
  #3
Lives for gear
 
maestro's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
i am also interested in the 47. There are sound samples on this forum as well as plenty of praise for various models
Old 23rd January 2009 | Show parent
  #4
Lives for gear
 
dhiltonlittle's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by maestro ➑️
i am also interested in the 47. There are sound samples on this forum as well as plenty of praise for various models
75 percent of this forum is about the 47 and it's clones.

search around. you'll find plenty of discussions and sound samples.
Old 23rd January 2009
  #5
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by HangArt ➑️
I plan to buy a U47 reissue mic. There are a lot of brands with several prices from 1K to 10K and my problem is, I can't listen and test non of them. What would you suggest? Witch one is worth of it the best, considering the sounf quality and prices? Wunder, Wagner, Telefunken...?
Please help me to choose the best deal!

Thanks!
I don't think the word, "reissue" is the correct word to describe a clone or copy. I believe, and correct me if I am wrong, a reissue is a product that is being distributed once again by the company that originally created and distributed it.
Old 23rd January 2009 | Show parent
  #6
Jai guru deva om
 
warhead's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
And most of these 47 clones don't really sound alike.

Are you looking for a dark-ish mic, a neutral sound or...?

What are you recording, and what do you already own, and out of what you already own what would you change about its sound which would make it the perfect mic?

I wouldn't place too much value on whether something is a clone of something, you may be overlooking better options. Without knowing the above info though, it's impossible to say.

War
Old 23rd January 2009 | Show parent
  #7
Moderator
 
James Lugo's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I've owned or had at my studio for long stints; TelefunkenUSA U47, TelefunkenUSA U47AE, Wunder CM7 and Wagner U47w. The AE, CM7 and U47w are are all really great, the stock Tele 47 was a little to dark for me but sounded good.

I think the Wagner and the AE are the best, if I had to choose I'd say the Wagner is the king of the hill. The U47w is so deep and intense sounding with incredible low end detail yet still open on top. I think Gunter is done making them so I'd say if you got the cake go for the AE, it is super sounding and was pretty close to McCurry's best U47.

The CM7 is good to, just the midrange ultimately didn't work for my voice but I did get very good results with it on other singers.

Maybe you can get some demoes because buying a mic off someone's opinion can be a disaster.
Old 23rd January 2009 | Show parent
  #8
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by James 'LA' Lugo ➑️
I've owned or had at my studio for long stints; TelefunkenUSA U47, TelefunkenUSA U47AE, Wunder CM7 and Wagner U47w. The AE, CM7 and U47w are are all really great, the stock Tele 47 was a little to dark for me but sounded good.

I think the Wagner and the AE are the best, if I had to choose I'd say the Wagner is the king of the hill. The U47w is so deep and intense sounding with incredible low end detail yet still open on top. I think Gunter is done making them so I'd say if you got the cake go for the AE, it is super sounding and was pretty close to McCurry's best U47.

The CM7 is good to, just the midrange ultimately didn't work for my voice but I did get very good results with it on other singers.

Maybe you can get some demoes because buying a mic off someone's opinion can be a disaster.
Gunter told me that he is no longer making U47's because the stock of original materials has been depleted. You might still be able to buy on the last of this production line. They are about $6,000, if I remember correctly.

If you don't already have one, you can't really go wrong with a Neumann U87, so they say.
Old 23rd January 2009 | Show parent
  #9
Moderator
 
James Lugo's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years

Wagner U47w



Old 23rd January 2009 | Show parent
  #10
Lives for gear
 
jjblair's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
FYI, nobody is making a "clone." To make a clone, you would have to be using all the same parts, and nobody does that.

These are all more like "tribute mics."

I have recently built a mic that I would consider an actual clone, and goddamn it's a pain in the ass. I had to use a lot of vintage parts, and the mic contains a lot of actual Neumann pieces, down to the Bosch paper and tar coupling caps, VF14 tube. I'm also using vintage NOS carbon glaze resistors and polystyrene caps. I don't see how anybody could make a production model like that.
Old 23rd January 2009 | Show parent
  #11
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by James 'LA' Lugo ➑️

Wagner U47w



**** that is gorgeous. hey man, would you mind if i visited your studio. I live in LA. i have never been to a pro recording studio. so it would be a great honor. and, do you know anyone who is looking to sell a U87? im in the market for a used one. cheers.
Old 23rd January 2009 | Show parent
  #12
Lives for gear
 
Jake Dempsey's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjblair ➑️
FYI, nobody is making a "clone." To make a clone, you would have to be using all the same parts, and nobody does that.

These are all more like "tribute mics."

I have recently built a mic that I would consider an actual clone, and goddamn it's a pain in the ass. I had to use a lot of vintage parts, and the mic contains a lot of actual Neumann pieces, down to the Bosch paper and tar coupling caps, VF14 tube. I'm also using vintage NOS carbon glaze resistors and polystyrene caps. I don't see how anybody could make a production model like that.
Tell us more.. Can we hear this thing?
Old 23rd January 2009 | Show parent
  #13
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjblair ➑️
FYI, nobody is making a "clone." To make a clone, you would have to be using all the same parts, and nobody does that.

These are all more like "tribute mics."

I have recently built a mic that I would consider an actual clone, and goddamn it's a pain in the ass. I had to use a lot of vintage parts, and the mic contains a lot of actual Neumann pieces, down to the Bosch paper and tar coupling caps, VF14 tube. I'm also using vintage NOS carbon glaze resistors and polystyrene caps. I don't see how anybody could make a production model like that.
gunter does that. he uses all original parts, material and manufacturing techniques. pretty craze, hence the steep price tags.

and definitions are flexible; and a word has a different meaning for every person, and for different groups. in the recording lingo, i believe it is standard to call a "clone", a piece of gear that fairly closely sonically and physically resembles another piece of gear for the purpose of recreating a sound quality.

it is pretty impressive that you have the know-how to do what you say you have done, congrats.
Old 23rd January 2009 | Show parent
  #14
Moderator
 
James Lugo's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by rowan wood ➑️
**** that is gorgeous. hey man, would you mind if i visited your studio. I live in LA. i have never been to a pro recording studio. so it would be a great honor. and, do you know anyone who is looking to sell a U87? im in the market for a used one. cheers.
Anytime just shoot me an email.
Old 23rd January 2009 | Show parent
  #15
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by James 'LA' Lugo ➑️
Anytime just shoot me an email.
sweet.
Old 23rd January 2009 | Show parent
  #16
Lives for gear
 
jjblair's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake Dempsey ➑️
Tell us more.. Can we hear this thing?
I suppose.

I just soldered it all together, and haven't had a chance to test and work out the bugs yet.
Old 23rd January 2009 | Show parent
  #17
Lives for gear
 
jjblair's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by rowan wood ➑️
gunter does that. he uses all original parts, material and manufacturing techniques.
No he isn't. The largest exception being that he's using the wrong tube. But all the parts I mentioned, he is not using. He's not using the TAB BV8 either, which uses the original lamination material. If you're going to make a U47 clone, and can't get an original BV8, that is the one to use, IMO.

I'm not saying he doesn't make an oustanding mic. I'm just saying that what you said is inaccurate.

BTW, I had some help making this. But a U47 is the mic equivalent of a '57 chevy. If you have the pieces, it's much simpler than putting together almost any other mic. I was fortunate enough to have somebody let me rebuild their tribute mic with the correct components, and that's where I did my trial and error. I'm in no way a Klaus or a Gunter. But I know when I see different components. Some of the components in the real Neumann he shows are not even stock.

U47 - the classic tube microphone
Old 23rd January 2009 | Show parent
  #18
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjblair ➑️
No he isn't. The largest exception being that he's using the wrong tube. But all the parts I mentioned, he is not using. He's not using the TAB BV8 either, which uses the original lamination material. If you're going to make a U47 clone, and can't get an original BV8, that is the one to use, IMO.

I'm not saying he doesn't make an oustanding mic. I'm just saying that what you said is inaccurate.

BTW, I had some help making this. But a U47 is the mic equivalent of a '57 chevy. If you have the pieces, it's much simpler than putting together almost any other mic. I was fortunate enough to have somebody let me rebuild their tribute mic with the correct components, and that's where I did my trial and error. I'm in no way a Klaus or a Gunter. But I know when I see different components. Some of the components in the real Neumann he shows are not even stock.

U47 - the classic tube microphone
really? so can someone else support this rebuke? i have heard that everything is dead on. gunter himself told me this in an email. im confused.
Old 23rd January 2009 | Show parent
  #19
Lives for gear
 
Martin Kantola's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Anything is possible if you are willing to pay for it. Real Berlin made PVC M7, VF14 tube, correct lamination BV8 etc. Just PM me ;-)

But it's probably not worth trying to build a 100% historically correct copy if it's the sweet sound you're after and not only the great looks...

Martin
Old 23rd January 2009 | Show parent
  #20
Lives for gear
 
insomnio's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by James 'LA' Lugo ➑️
I've owned or had at my studio for long stints; TelefunkenUSA U47, TelefunkenUSA U47AE, Wunder CM7 and Wagner U47w. The AE, CM7 and U47w are are all really great, the stock Tele 47 was a little to dark for me but sounded good.

I think the Wagner and the AE are the best, if I had to choose I'd say the Wagner is the king of the hill. The U47w is so deep and intense sounding with incredible low end detail yet still open on top. I think Gunter is done making them so I'd say if you got the cake go for the AE, it is super sounding and was pretty close to McCurry's best U47.

The CM7 is good to, just the midrange ultimately didn't work for my voice but I did get very good results with it on other singers.

Maybe you can get some demoes because buying a mic off someone's opinion can be a disaster.
Hey James,
I know the TM-1 is not intended to be a U47 clone, but how do you compare it to those you've mentioned?
Old 23rd January 2009 | Show parent
  #21
Lives for gear
 
Fast_Fingers's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
https://gearspace.com/board/high-end...le-review.html

The Peluso 2247 is supposed to be quite interesting (above is a GS review of the German tube variant). The SE (American tube) review for Mix Magazine said it was like a quieter version of a museum-piece U47.
Old 23rd January 2009 | Show parent
  #22
JMc
Gear Addict
 
JMc's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Man, even though I am thrilled with my EF14 Pearlman TM-1, I have such a major jones for that Wagner U47w it isn't even funny.

Every time I read a post or see a picture of that mic, I start thinking of pulling the trigger, if only one were available. I'm almost sort of glad that Gunter is pulling the plug. At least, I won't always have the temptation hanging over my head.

Agghhhh!!!!!
Old 23rd January 2009 | Show parent
  #23
Lives for gear
 
dualflip's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast_Fingers ➑️
https://gearspace.com/board/high-end...le-review.html

The Peluso 2247 is supposed to be quite interesting (above is a GS review of the German tube variant). The SE (American tube) review for Mix Magazine said it was like a quieter version of a museum-piece U47.
I dont know if the peluso is a U47 copy, but to my ears it didnt sound very good..., the LE version is a little better but the SE was a disaster IMO, the SE sounded very muddy IMO and the LE sounded more like a transparent version of a u87 but with more brittle, and without the distinct sound of the U87 (or the U47 for that matter). I wouldnt buy it, not because its not like a U47, just because i didnt liked the sound of it. Although i must say i did liked the C12 clone from peluso the P12.
Old 23rd January 2009 | Show parent
  #24
Moderator
 
TonyBelmont's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by rowan wood ➑️
really? so can someone else support this rebuke? i have heard that everything is dead on. gunter himself told me this in an email. im confused.
JJ is correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dualflip ➑️
I dont know if the peluso is a U47 copy, but to my ears it didnt sound very good..., the LE version is a little better but the SE was a disaster IMO, the SE sounded very muddy IMO and the LE sounded more like a transparent version of a u87 but with more brittle, and without the distinct sound of the U87 (or the U47 for that matter). I wouldnt buy it, not because its not like a U47, just because i didnt liked the sound of it. Although i must say i did liked the C12 clone from peluso the P12.
That has not been my experience with the LE. I think it's a wonderful mic for the money, and it sounds nothing like a U87.
Old 23rd January 2009
  #25
Here for the gear
 
🎧 10 years
Laweson L47

Have you looked into the Lawson L47 that mic is fantasic and has a nice warm and sweet sound for under $2000.
Old 23rd January 2009 | Show parent
  #26
Lives for gear
 
KEYBEEETSSS's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by guitargeorge159 ➑️
Have you looked into the Lawson L47 that mic is fantasic and has a nice warm and sweet sound for under $2000.
I demo'd 1 & really didn't care for it; the 251 was better to me but didn't keep that either... tried the Oceanus which doesn't sound like a Neumann anything-7 but I like it & kept it; Still wanna here the Pearlman TM-1 though...
Old 23rd January 2009 | Show parent
  #27
Lives for gear
 
dualflip's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyBelmont ➑️



That has not been my experience with the LE. I think it's a wonderful mic for the money, and it sounds nothing like a U87.
Well, maybe the vocalist i used to tryout the mic didnt had a good thing with the peluso, but what i meant about the u87 is not that te peluso sounds like a u87, what i meant was that to my ears is closer to the u87 than to the 47, although you are right it doesnt sound like a 87
Old 23rd January 2009 | Show parent
  #28
Lives for gear
 
GYang's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Kantola ➑️
Anything is possible if you are willing to pay for it. Real Berlin made PVC M7, VF14 tube, correct lamination BV8 etc. Just PM me ;-)

But it's probably not worth trying to build a 100% historically correct copy if it's the sweet sound you're after and not only the great looks...

Martin
Very true.
In my quest for perfect U47 there were many original parts involved and combined into original body and head.
Actually I know that I've tried at least 4 or 5 100% true originals, where if anything replaced was replaced only by original parts.
They all shared same basic sound and feel with minor differences that would not go below U47's typical character and sound.
Wagner's mics were always tried side by side with such originals and no way that Wagner was inferior or different, 100% same sonic ballpark, but on the better side of U47 spectrum.
I would say that from 100% of existing original U47, only 5-10% can compete with Wagner U47 on their own sonic ground. Of course it would sound exaggerating to say that reincarnation is better that original, but virtually sounding same, I always picked Wagner over originals in blind tests.

So, all these stories about historic correctness are meaningless from user's side and serve mere as price justification for stupid collectors, not for real music makers who need instruments to reach goals.

We have nowdays what we have and if someone was capable to reach target that is called top notch authentic U47 sound with particular mix of components and clever tweaking, the last thing that should bother us is whether piece of plastic is new or 50 years old or whether the tube is of slightly different type.

Same discussion goes forever about PAF type guitar pickups. Some of boutique manufacturers nailed vintage sounds 100% with newer wire, magnets or winding approaches, but in same time collectors and their greedy supporters grumble about fact that if something is not made in particular historically equal way it can't yield same results. Original PAF pick up would cost sporadically over 2000 $, although sonically it is not worth more than 50 and actually sounding apparently worse (weak output, noise, micrpohonic etc.) than modern counterparts.
Old 25th January 2009 | Show parent
  #29
Gear Head
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by GYang ➑️
Wagner's mics were always tried side by side with such originals and no way that Wagner was inferior or different, 100% same sonic ballpark, but on the better side of U47 spectrum.
We have 3 originals and 1 Wagner... Same experience over here...

That's also Andreas Grosser's opinion.
Not a bad reference although we have our own ears.


- JJBlair invite James Lugo for a shoot out.


Nash

Old 25th January 2009 | Show parent
  #30
so can someone chime in and comment on this:

https://gearspace.com/board/geekslut...oks-cheap.html
πŸ“ Reply

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