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flute micing techniques etc
Old 21st January 2009
  #1
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superiorsound's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
flute micing techniques etc

Hi,
Thanks in advance! I have to do some flute recording next month and wanted some insight on micing and so on. I have the following mics 2 U87s, NT5, CAD 179, Sennheiser e614, sm57s and several others. Will these mics suffice? Also how should I mic it up?

Cheers!
Old 21st January 2009
  #2
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jnorman's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
you dont indicate what the application is - jazz? classical? folk or pop?

for a jazz flute sound, you will want to mic quite close, like a few inches above the embouchure to get that "chuffy" sound. the U87 is perfect for this.

for a classical sound, you will need to move out to around 4-5 feet with omni(s), or 7-8 feet with card(s). i typically use a pair of omnis at around 5 feet, or ORTF cards at 7 feet. nice room helps :-)

for other flute apps, a U87 at 3-4 feet in card or fig 8 is about right, aiming the mic at the middle of the flute body - not at the embouchure. you want to get out far enough that you dont pick up excess key clacking and breath sounds.
Old 21st January 2009 | Show parent
  #3
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superiorsound's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnorman ➡️
you dont indicate what the application is - jazz? classical? folk or pop?

for a jazz flute sound, you will want to mic quite close, like a few inches above the embouchure to get that "chuffy" sound. the U87 is perfect for this.

for a classical sound, you will need to move out to around 4-5 feet with omni(s), or 7-8 feet with card(s). i typically use a pair of omnis at around 5 feet, or ORTF cards at 7 feet. nice room helps :-)

for other flute apps, a U87 at 3-4 feet in card or fig 8 is about right, aiming the mic at the middle of the flute body - not at the embouchure. you want to get out far enough that you dont pick up excess key clacking and breath sounds.
Sorry its classical flute. what mics would you recommend? I have a pair of rode nt5's what are ORTF cards? Room sounds great hardwood floors and nice treatment.
Old 21st January 2009 | Show parent
  #4
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🎧 10 years
With flute you need to know three major points:

-perpendicular to the flute straight from the mouth you hear the airstream over the mouth piece (preferably attenuated)

-directly out of the 'tube' you hear also very high frequency air stream noise and resonances. (also not wanted)

-the flute is a dipole, the best mic starting spot for all tones is app. 30-45 deg from the flute body, giving the best average over all tones and the least cancellations.
Old 21st January 2009 | Show parent
  #5
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
The U87 will definitely work. Experiment by putting it in omni mode, you might notice a slight low end roll off, But will get some nice ambience.
Old 21st January 2009 | Show parent
  #6
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Greg Curtis's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Anyone use ribbons?

R121
77DX
RCA 10001?

Greg

.
Old 21st January 2009 | Show parent
  #7
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superiorsound's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Awesome thanks for the help. Should I stereo up on the U87s? or would that be overkill?
Old 21st January 2009 | Show parent
  #8
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flute player's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Curtis ➡️
Anyone use ribbons?

R121
77DX
RCA 10001?

Greg

.
Not that I am a flute player makes me an expert in recording one.
I have a R121 and noticed that using this one the pre is important too.
For example I had a Daking Mic/Pre eq before and didn't like it.
But using it with the HCL A2 it gives super results.
An outsider here could be the Cascade Fat Head 2.
You can find a sound sample here Us_list 3 under the name Paul Smithuis
You could use a Hardy also to create a clean sound.
Last year I bought a MK319 from Michael Joly and this one gives a nice tone. But there you have to eq the mid and be sure not to capture many breath. You can listen here to a sound example of this mic. SoundClick artist: Paul Smithuis - page with MP3 music downloads
Tubes mics are not my first choice.
I still have a SE Gemini syndrome
Hopefully this helps.

greetz,

Paul
Old 21st January 2009 | Show parent
  #9
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Greg Curtis's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I have 4 channels of AEA TRP mic pre's, which kick butt with ribbons.

I would not stereo mic the flute, unless it is going to be a live recording featuring a solo instrument in a nice hall.
Old 21st January 2009 | Show parent
  #10
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TanTan's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Curtis ➡️
Anyone use ribbons?

R121
77DX
RCA 10001?

Greg

.
I use ribbons for flutes only when the flute is playing mostly on the 3rd (highest) octave like in Salsa.. for the lower octaves ribbons never really did the trick for me.. U87's are good, the Lawson L47 is a fantastic all around flute mic.
Old 21st January 2009 | Show parent
  #11
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Piedpiper's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
ORTF cards means a pair of cardioid mics in a configuration developed by the Office de Radiodiffusion Télévision Française (ORTF) at Radio France: a pair of cardioid mics at a 110º angle, spaced 17 cm apart.

I agree with Greg Curtis re: stereo pair. Mic choice will depend on the player's sound and taste. The U87 will be bright, the ribbon smoother.
Old 21st January 2009 | Show parent
  #12
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superiorsound's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piedpiper ➡️
ORTF cards means a pair of cardioid mics in a configuration developed by the Office de Radiodiffusion Télévision Française (ORTF) at Radio France: a pair of cardioid mics at a 110º angle, spaced 17 cm apart.

I agree with Greg Curtis re: stereo pair. Mic choice will depend on the player's sound and taste. The U87 will be bright, the ribbon smoother.

awesome I just googled it pretty cool technique. Thanks for all your help
Old 21st January 2009 | Show parent
  #13
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jnorman's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
superior - go to this thread:
https://gearspace.com/board/remote-p...aced-pair.html

in that thread, i posted samples of flute /piano playing the doppler fantasie comparing an ORTF pair of cards (AT4051s) against a pair of spaced omnis (AT4022s). that should give you an idea of those two stereo micing techniques and results.

the omni caps for the NT5s are supposed to be pretty good. the NT5 cardioid caps are a little bright for flute, but you can try them and see - ORTF will place the mics off-axis which should tame the highs a bit.

i have used ribbons many times on woodwinds (royer r-121, coles 4038, fatheads, shinybox), but as mentioned above, you REALLY must have a preamp with tons of clean gain to use a ribbon properly. sometimes ribbons can be just the ticket, but most often, my ear still wants to hear the more clean sound of a good condenser. i have had best luck using DPA 4011s, 4006s, schoeps cmc64s, AKG C481s, and lately, the AT4051s and 4022s have been what i am using.

also, you can also acheive perfectly good results in mono.
Old 21st January 2009 | Show parent
  #14
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by audio ergo sum ➡️
-the flute is a dipole, the best mic starting spot for all tones is app. 30-45 deg from the flute body, giving the best average over all tones and the least cancellations.
Strictly speaking a dipole is a source with two loobes that are out of phase 180 degree. Like a open baffle speaker and the equivalent in microphones would be a ribbon.

The flute has two (major/dominant) sources, the embouchure and the open hole but the output is in phase making the flute more like a bipole or a "dual omni source".

Below a D flute (low D whistle actually) with one mic at embouchure and one mic at the end of the flute.

Check post #16 in this hread.
Record Native Flute???


/Peter
Old 22nd January 2009 | Show parent
  #15
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Greg Curtis's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I have used a C24, using only one capsule which means it was really a C12, with great results.

Greg

.
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