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should I get some HEDD?
Old 30th March 2003
  #1
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Unknown soldier's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
should I get some HEDD?

I'm pretty much set in my studio - centered around a DA7 and a fostex D1624, both clocked to a Lucid Genex6. I've got good outboard gear - the weak link is my A/D conversion, I'm using the ones in the fostex. I'm considering a high end A/D, one that does 44.1 well. Thinking about the HEDD and apogee psx100 or rosetta. the rosetta is much cheaper, however seems to be on the lower end. Had a lucid AD9624, but sold that as I found it a accurate but a bit sterile. Wondering what you "high end" guys recommend.......
Old 30th March 2003
  #2
Gear Guru
 
thethrillfactor's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Re: should I get some HEDD?

Quote:
Originally posted by Unknown soldier
I'm pretty much set in my studio - centered around a DA7 and a fostex D1624, both clocked to a Lucid Genex6. I've got good outboard gear - the weak link is my A/D conversion, I'm using the ones in the fostex. I'm considering a high end A/D, one that does 44.1 well. Thinking about the HEDD and apogee psx100 or rosetta. the rosetta is much cheaper, however seems to be on the lower end. Had a lucid AD9624, but sold that as I found it a accurate but a bit sterile. Wondering what you "high end" guys recommend.......
Life always seems better when you can get some HEDD!!!heh

A great versatile unit.

One of the best buys out there.
Old 30th March 2003
  #3
Gear Maniac
 
ghoost's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Re: Re: should I get some HEDD?

Apogee is not in the same class as HEDD. You'd do well to check out Benchmark .. a bit cheaper and stands shoulder to shoulder without comprimise You may also want to look at DB or Mytek.
Old 30th March 2003
  #4
Founder
 
Jules's Avatar
If tape simulaion or an enriched warmth is of interest the Hedd makes sence.

If it is not then you might just get an AD only..

Hedd is usefull for A/D D/A AND tape / valve simulation at mixdown tine

BTW because I use the Hedd tape simulation at mixdown, I rarely dial it in during tracking any more, as I fear 'double warming' can get a little TOO gonzo and over done...

Old 30th March 2003
  #5
Lives for gear
 
e-cue's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I'm currently clocking with a PSX-100se. It's been a total pain in the arse. It's messed up about 5 times in the last month: not passing single, not metering, and worst, 'mis clocking' sampling rates. When I power cycle, eveything goes back to normal, unless I've tracked at a misclock (happened once). Total pain, but I'm using it for my vocal a/d. Other people I've talked to have never had this problem and others that have used this paticular unit have mentioned similar problems, so I suspect the unit is wacky.
At any rate, I'd feel much better with a HEDD unit right now.
Old 30th March 2003
  #6
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Unknown soldier's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I'm reading up on the benchmark DAC-1, and it has rave reviews. What about an A/D front end version? Is that in the works? Would seem to be a perfect price/performance ratio.....
Old 31st March 2003
  #7
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Ted Nightshade's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I've found with the HEDD that the valvulation (sounds juicy don't it?) creates a final balance and finish to the mix that I don't want to disturb one bit (pun intented and meant literally). I wouldn't do anything to the mix after HEDDing it, not even a gain calculation. Seems just right as the final touch.

I'm coming from analog tape, nice tube gear, nice acoustic instruments, the works, and I'm about as purist as they come, but I would be most discouraged to have to work without the HEDD process options. Every now and then an especially harmonically rich thing comes along that sounds best with the process in bypass, but for everything else the exact right process setting in the HEDD seems very necessary, unless played back really well at lifelike levels, which are difficult to achieve cleanly...

The HEDD also makes it possible for me to achieve some rather radical dynamics without freaking out everyone's playback systems.

On the other hand I could see where for strictly scrutinizing what's really there in digital land, the HEDD D/A is not as uncolored as you might want. However I find that when you get things optomized using the HEDD D/A for monitoring, things sound like you would hope they would when played back through a more clinical type of D/A.
Old 31st March 2003
  #8
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RKrizman's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Re: Re: should I get some HEDD?

Quote:
Originally posted by thethrillfactor
Life always seems better when you can get some HEDD!!!heh

A great versatile unit.

One of the best buys out there.
Hey thrill,
In another thread you claimed that your HEDD was experiencing a 1 sample delay in one of the stereo channels under certain circumstances. Did you get that straightened out? Was it just your unit or is it a problem with the design itself?

-R
Old 31st March 2003
  #9
Gear Guru
 
NathanEldred's Avatar
 
7 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
The HEDD will be a major step up from a Rosetta or Standard PSX-100.

I would rather have a Lucid than an Apogee, and I'd rather have a Crane Song than a Lucid.

fuuck
Old 31st March 2003
  #10
Gear Guru
 
thethrillfactor's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Re: Re: Re: should I get some HEDD?

Quote:
Originally posted by RKrizman
Hey thrill,
In another thread you claimed that your HEDD was experiencing a 1 sample delay in one of the stereo channels under certain circumstances. Did you get that straightened out? Was it just your unit or is it a problem with the design itself?

-R
Hi Rick,

I will know this week.

With the AES going on and me needing to finish some vocals I started tracking with it, the schedules just didn't meet.

I think Dave is back now so i am sending it out this week.

I will keep everyone posted.

I am pretty confident its just my unit(its been acting real weird lately).grudge
Old 31st March 2003
  #11
Lives for gear
 
atticus's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Unknown soldier
I'm reading up on the benchmark DAC-1, and it has rave reviews. What about an A/D front end version? Is that in the works? Would seem to be a perfect price/performance ratio.....
We're always working on cool stuff
Old 4th April 2003
  #12
Here for the gear
 
🎧 15 years
here we go again

And I was enjoying the peace and calm... at least in cyberspace! I really wonder what motivates some people around here. Having owned and used Benchmark and Apogee and Crane Song, I can objectively say they are all fine pieces of gear. They each have their own sound, like a different mic for a different vocalist. However, suggesting that lucid is in the same class as those three strikes me as a bit odd, and perhaps suspect. Anyone who has honestly compared the four units could not seriously suggest this. In anycase, when picking from the high end products, like anything else at that level, it comes down to features, the sound you are looking for, and unfortunately, sometimes price. Lets keep things clean and honest here....

my 3 and 1/2 cents

Kaiser
Old 4th April 2003
  #13
member no 666
 
Fletcher's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Re: here we go again

Quote:
Originally posted by kaiser
However, suggesting that lucid is in the same class as those three strikes me as a bit odd, and perhaps suspect. Anyone who has honestly compared the four units could not seriously suggest this.
The **** I couldn't.
Old 5th April 2003
  #14
Gear Guru
 
NathanEldred's Avatar
 
7 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by kaiser
However, suggesting that lucid is in the same class as those three strikes me as a bit odd, and perhaps suspect. Anyone who has honestly compared the four units could not seriously suggest this.

Sorry but I think Lucid is better than standard Apogee, so do a lot of other people. I don't sell either one, so it actually is counter beneficial for me to say anything good about Lucid but you want to talk about fecking honesty, there you go. I lived with Apogee for two years, when I heard Mytek and Crane Song, it was an obvious BIG step up. The Lucid was a minor step up, for less money. I had a 9624 A/D Lucid in here on loan for about 2 months and to my ears it was a step up from standard issue Apogee. Considering you can get into 2 channels of A/D/A for something like $1500, that's a pretty damn good deal. I don't think the Lucid is as good as the Crane Song, but hey it's twice as much and you get what you pay for.
Old 5th April 2003
  #15
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Unknown soldier's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I had a lucid AD9624, and after comparing it to my fostex d1624 internal converters, decided to sell it. While the lucid had a better stereo image, I actually thought the fostex converters were warmer and fatter sounding (not by a lot , but enough), so I'm using the fostex. It is clocked to a genex6, which I'm sure helps the conversion.

I've heard the psx100 and lucid - what more can I expect from a crane song in terms of performance (besides the dsp functions)? I'm wondering how much better it can be, especially at 44.1, where it seems there's always some harshness, probably due to the digital filters and limited bandwidth. What I'm really looking for is smoothness and less ear fatigue. I'm tired of listening to my mixes and hating them after about 30 minutes

I'm using a DA7 and staying digital all the way once it's converted.
Old 5th April 2003
  #16
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chap's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
silly statement

To say the Apogee is not in the same 'class' as the HEDD is silly and uninformed.
I own lots of converters from many manufacturers and get to compare them daily. (6 converters from 5 manufacturers). None of us eats at the same restaurant every day. Same with converters.
At this level, 'better' does not suffice.

The Apogee Trak2 is easily as good as the Hedd and offers many more features. I sounds great, has all the tape emulation of the Hedd but costs a good deal more. It depends on what you're looking for.

In the future, I may buy a Hedd ( a fine product)
just to have options and different tools. For someone to make a generalazation like that is simply untrue and uninformed. The Trak2 sounds fantastic as a converter AND mic pre AND various levels of emulation.

I've a/b'ed these units and they sound different. Go listen. Use the forum and weigh opinions. Consider the source. (Does the endorsee of either product sell one and not the other?) Are they users or dealers? Consider their agenda too.

Both units sound great but it's unfair to compare the flagship unit from one company to a midlevel product from another. Keep it apples to apples.
Best of luck,
chap
IMO these 2 units are your only choices in making a real difference. I'll go put on my fireproof suit now.
Old 5th April 2003
  #17
Gear Maniac
 
ghoost's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Unknown soldier
what more can I expect from a crane song in terms of performance (besides the dsp functions)? I'm wondering how much better it can be, especially at 44.1, where it seems there's always some harshness, What I'm really looking for is smoothness and less ear fatigue. I'm tired of listening to my mixes and hating them after about 30 minutes
Demo a Benchmark and a Cranesong ... at 44.1 ... I think you'll be quite pleased at how smooth they are and their lack of harshness. The key difference you'll probably notice ... is the price
Old 5th April 2003
  #18
Lives for gear
 
Ted Nightshade's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
"what more can I expect from a crane song in terms of performance (besides the dsp functions)? I'm wondering how much better it can be, especially at 44.1, where it seems there's always some harshness, What I'm really looking for is smoothness and less ear fatigue. I'm tired of listening to my mixes and hating them after about 30 minutes"

Try the HEDD at 16 bit, 44.1, and experience some silky sounds. Mmmmm. It sounds better than the HEDD does at 24:96 to my taste. That's kinda harsh.

The tape emulation on the HEDD is a novelty item in my opinion. I just don't get into that kind of distortion, although a nice sweet analogue tape is most pleasurable. However, the triode and pentode processes are just absolutely magical. They translate really well, if you don't overdo them. I couldn't mix down to digital without the triode and pentode. I have relabeled the pentode knob "Shimmer". It can do amazing things for clarity and transparency, and you can skip the "air" EQ. The triode I just use a little bit sometimes, it's sweet and creamy but it gets into distortion pretty quickly.

God I love this thing at 16 bit 44.1 khz. The highs seem to go impossibly high for 44.1, christ for anything.
Old 5th April 2003
  #19
Gear Guru
 
thethrillfactor's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Unknown soldier


I'm using a DA7 and staying digital all the way once it's converted. [/B]

I'm tired of listening to my mixes and hating them after about 30 minutes

Then why not have someone else mix it?

Just because the technology is there doesn't mean everyone will be able to use it well.

You can listen to every converter you want, but in the end if you can't or don't know how to mix well, then its a waste of time.

I think in the end your money may be better spent that way.
Old 5th April 2003
  #20
member no 666
 
Fletcher's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Re: silly statement

Quote:
Originally posted by chap
To say the Apogee is not in the same 'class' as the HEDD is silly and uninformed.
I own lots of converters from many manufacturers and get to compare them daily. (6 converters from 5 manufacturers). None of us eats at the same restaurant every day. Same with converters.
At this level, 'better' does not suffice.
This could be a lesson in 'quit while you're ahead' (no pun intended).

I thought this was a rather spot on, intelligent post... but right after "At this level, 'better' does not suffice.", you started to blow it.

I started to take this statement by statement... but didn't like where I was going. I will comment on one other section of your post:

Quote:
I've a/b'ed these units and they sound different. Go listen.
Great comment... spot on... and then...


Quote:
Use the forum and weigh opinions. Consider the source. (Does the endorsee of either product sell one and not the other?) Are they users or dealers? Consider their agenda too.
In my case... I'm both a user and a pimp... and I pimp both products. Yes, I have flight time with both... I could stand to profit from the purchase of either.

I sincerely think the 'Mini-ME' from Apogee kicks the ass of the TRAK 2... and that product is way less expensive than the TRAK 2. While they're in the same vein on a sonic level... I have found the 'Mini-ME' far more applicable than the TRAK 2 in every application in which I've tried it.

FWIW, I really don't have an agenda when it comes to this stuff...
Old 5th April 2003
  #21
Lives for gear
 
chap's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Hey Fletcher,
Good thing I wore the fire ******ant spandex ,eh?

Since you pimp both products, you would be exempt from that 'agenda' business. There are some folks who only sell one product. I would lobby for full disclosure. I have many endorsements. I would never swing the bat for one of those without disclosing my relationship. Especially if I would profit from a sale. If someone is willing to spend hard earned cash, they deserve some hard earned info.
I'll probably gett a hedd this year just to have it in my tool belt. I haven't heard the 'mini-me' nor do I have a need for it but I did hear the Hedd and the Trak2. Different animals in the same zoo. It's not a fair comparison to put the Hedd next to the Rossetta and that's part of my diatribe.
You step in any time you like.
In fact, I'll even take the suit off.

BTW- the PCP is the balls! (my opinion, no endorsement except for my balls)
chap
Old 5th April 2003
  #22
Lives for gear
 
chap's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
ps

one more thing....I dug that profile in Tape Op.
Nice pic. Should go on your refrigerator.
I also liked the way you articulated the Neve accumulation thing.

Now don't start some 'ass kissing' stuff. I'm older than you and like any older guy, in my mind, I can (like my little brothers) still 'take' you.
I'm off to play guitar.
cheers,
chap
Old 14th April 2003
  #23
Gear Nut
 
DigiGeek's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Re: Re: silly statement

Quote:
I sincerely think the 'Mini-ME' from Apogee kicks the ass of the TRAK 2... and that product is way less expensive than the TRAK 2. While they're in the same vein on a sonic level... I have found the 'Mini-ME' far more applicable than the TRAK 2 in every application in which I've tried it.[/B]
If transparency is not something you strive for in a mic pre, I can understand why you would prefer the Mini-Me to the Trak2. Both sound excellent, but the Mini-Me has a nice color to it.

As for price, I think you are exageratting a bit. You can buy a Trak2 with an 8-channel D/A and AMBUS card for less than $4k at Sweetwater:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Trak2ADAT/

That's around $390.00 per channel. The Mini-Me at $1395.00 is cheaper at about $350.00 per channel, to be sure. But I would not consider $40 per channel to be way cheaper, as you put it.

For what it does and at the level it does it, the Trak2 is one hell of a buy, and the best mic pre/A/D/A converter combination on the market in my opinion, followed closely by the Mini-Me as a mic pre/A/D.
Old 14th April 2003
  #24
Gear Guru
 
NathanEldred's Avatar
 
7 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Re: silly statement

Quote:
Originally posted by chap

I've a/b'ed these units and they sound different. Go listen. Use the forum and weigh opinions. Consider the source. (Does the endorsee of either product sell one and not the other?) Are they users or dealers? Consider their agenda too.
Yep, I'm right there in agreement with Fletcher. I may be a dealer, but I was an engineer long before I was a dealer. I was a customer of Fletcher's as a matter of fact. My agenda is to display great stuff that I believe in, and I won't say any differently even though I don't sell it. I've got probably well over a thousand hours logged on Apogee (Rosetta, AD8000, PSX) and I wasn't anywhere near as impressed as I was with Crane Song or Mytek or dCs. Db, Benchmark, etc. all good stuff, don't currently sell them and one day we may. I usually don't find it in order to defend myself, but unless you know me or have dealt with me I find it innapropriate of you to sling comments off the hip that are really very uninformed and quite ignorant IMNTLBFHO.
Old 14th April 2003
  #25
Lives for gear
 
chap's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
still stands

read the statement. If you're not guilty, don't respond. There is no personal finger pointing so why get uptight.
Evaluating the information is a helpful way to make an expensive decision.
I'm currently working on 2 major label releases
and just finished a 3rd. The mastering engineer thought I did the projects in a huge, fancy joint. I didn't, but I did use great gear including
Apogee.

There's no reason to take this personal but someone making a purchase should know who deals what. I'm only a musician/producer/engineer so I traffic in bull **** all the time.
No harm, no foul. Just an opinion from a user.
chap
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