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Poll: Who's using 2" tape nowadays...
Old 26th June 2002
  #31
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
electric ladyland sounds amazing because of the songs/production... but not the engineering. and i LOVE that album, i love all hendrix... but the sonics get in the way sometimes. and i have heard EL on vinyl on a REALLY nice system many times. and i have listened to the cd well beyond normal people.
Old 26th June 2002
  #32
Gear Maniac
 
vsl666's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
el

alpha ..

wierdoyuktyy yuktyy yuktyy
Old 26th June 2002
  #33
Lives for gear
 
loudist's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Ya know... if Queen had the editing and manipulation capabilities that we have today, I think they would have made the same music. It is about concept.

I do agree with the potential abuse of the manipulations (and it is abused regularly), one can take a talented but not quite 'gelled' band and manipulate it to be something it inherently isn't. The old days of performance, and razor blade editing takes together with punch in fixes to the basics (damn bassplayer missed the down beat) still had the element that the band had to be able to catch a groove and emote synergistically. This is not as probable with Manipulation based production.

The speed that a band can do a record playing together all at once, and doing o/d's by punching in parts rather than edit them together can be frighteningly fast. The difference is a lot of effort and work in PERFORMANCE.

I have seen Grand Funk with Todd Rundgren produceing, record, OD and mix the album 'We're an American Band' in one week. No lie.

I have also seen The Bee Gees edit, OD, vocal slave reels, to an excruciating degree for months on end. The common factor is it is PERFORMANCE based decision making. Grand Funk was a 'that felt good' in a global way leaving in the odd wart or two, while the Bee Gees were about wart removal and microscopic evaluation. Much of their time was listening to the previous days work of perfectly in time and in tune and trashing it (to an extent) because most of it didn't feel right. And then getting to work again performing while getting a few more parts/sections/words of perfect performances with feel. Again decisions based on emotive properties of performance.

Performance performance performance. If they can't do that then it can be somewhat manufactured by the manipulations, but doesn't have the long term feel that makes life time careers.
Old 1st July 2002
  #34
Capitol Studios Paris
 
jon's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Great post, loudist.

Key words: Concept. Performance.

May I presume that you use 2" analog for the stuff that matters?
Old 1st July 2002
  #35
Lives for gear
 
loudist's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by jon
Great post, loudist.

Key words: Concept. Performance.

May I presume that you use 2" analog for the stuff that matters?
Thanks Jon,

I actually preferr RADAR as the recording medium. it sounds really good, and I do enjoy having an undo if I make a bad punch, if you know what I mean. I do also enjoy the somewhat limited editing capabilities (compared to PT) as it forces DECISIONS to be made.
Old 1st July 2002
  #36
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
i think its all about the way you USE something. i got the feeling earlier in the thread that using a DAW implied extensive editing and unnatural manipulation... while its nice that you CAN do that, but i rarely ever do that.

and when i do its to fix something simple. like a stick hitting the rim on one stroke instead of the head on an otherwise great take. its not off, its just not a snare hit... and not one of those happy accidents either. i can drop a new hit on my DAW before an analog guy can even think about getting up to patch something in to fix it.

the PERFORMANCE comes from the artist, not from the engineer. i tell em that their live takes [yes, i track fully live] are their keepers, i dont go back and od new parts to take out original parts [well i would if i had to, but i dont want to... id rather them get it right live. must come from actually playing in bands], and i dont edit grooves... thats called another take. if i hear a ****up live, i hit stop... sometimes i will let them finish but they are going to do another take anyways.

having grown up on analog, thats where my recording patterns stem from tracking even though i use random access digital now. which is another beautiful thing regarding performance. no rewind time so you dont give them time to think between takes. although sometimes i feel sorry for the poor bastards because they really gotta just go. which from being on the other side of the glass i can appreciate... nothing worse than to wait when you are ready to go. i always tell them i can pause if they need to catch a breath but most comment how they prefer working that way.

but tape is a cool little effect unit so it has its place too.
Old 1st July 2002
  #37
Lives for gear
 
loudist's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
i think its all about the way you USE something. i got the feeling earlier in the thread that using a DAW implied extensive editing and unnatural manipulation... while its nice that you CAN do that, but i rarely ever do that.
Good on you AJ!
But you have to admit that mucho music is manipulated to death these days.
I just think it is detrimental to the affect music should be having on folks.

I also like the no waiting rewinds, helps the bands keep their musical boners.
Old 1st July 2002
  #38
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
musical boners, so eloquent... sums up like my whole paragraph in 2 words.

it is a shame too much music is edited to death, but it isnt coming out of my shack. i like it live, i like it raw, and i like it loud... perfection is for martha stewart.


but one of these days i want a 2" 8track, maybe 16... 8's probably enough for what i want to use it for.
Old 1st July 2002
  #39
VIP
 
mwagener's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I have to fully agree with the "overediting' mania. I think that that is the REAL problem with ProTools. Kids come into the studio nowadays and expect YOU to be the performer for them, no way. If you mess up, you play it again. Granted I probably do much more "overdubs" than alpha would, but I still refuse to edit a drumtake until it's in completely time and right on the nose, but stinks in terms of feel. If the guy can't play with a click, turn off the click and let 'em play the way he is used to, it's all music and the beauty are the mistakes being made. I remember in the 80s I had a guitar setup which I used on at least 3 major albums, same gtr preamp, same setting, same poweramp, same speaker and same mic setup just different rooms, and all guitarplayers sounded completely different with that setup. It's all in the hand that play and not in the hands that edit.
Old 1st July 2002
  #40
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
oh i OD quite a bit... i just like for most intents and purposes for the live tracks to be the "vibe". but there is a difference between a recording and a live performance. the bare minimum that is going to be right is the drums, screw editing those. not that i cant do it...
Old 2nd July 2002
  #41
Han
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Hi all

Just bought myself 60 reels of 2" tape.

Have fun!
Old 11th July 2002
  #42
Gear Guru
 
Drumsound's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I'd like to agree with all the people who think overedited records don't sound like music. A good record is all about PERFORMANCE. That is how I work on analog or if I use a DAW (which I only do at other studios, not mine). Another thing I've noticed with the ability to edit to death is that good players have convinced themselves that they aren't good and need to edit everything they do. It really bums me out in all of my "personalities" engineer, musician and music lover.

To chime in on the original question of the post I use a 2" 24-track 3M M79 and usually mix to a Tascam ATR-60 1/4" @ 30ips.
Old 11th July 2002
  #43
Lives for gear
 
David R.'s Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
As an artist, I was lucky enough to have an extended weekend session with Sam Phillips and his son, Knox 10 years ago. After wiping the stars from my eyes, I learned so much about tracking from them. They record for the finished product. You know you are on to something when you line up all the faders at zero and the song is almost mixed.

This translates to DAW. Get good sounds, good performance, and don't screw things up in the mix.

Unfortunatly, it has been a few years since I used 2". They are so cheap now, but space in San Francisco is a premium. There is no way I can afford another room.

Old 12th July 2002
  #44
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
alpha wrote:

' i dont edit grooves... thats called another take. if i hear a ****up live, i hit stop... sometimes i will let them finish but they are going to do another take anyways.'

i never stop, 'coz tape is cheap, but disk is free
Old 12th July 2002
  #45
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by maxim
alpha wrote:

' i dont edit grooves... thats called another take. if i hear a ****up live, i hit stop... sometimes i will let them finish but they are going to do another take anyways.'

i never stop, 'coz tape is cheap, but disk is free
yeah but who wants to backup and archive all that added [wasted] information? not i. i just nip it at the bud.
Old 12th July 2002
  #46
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
well, i find it that if the band just pause, rather than start again, there's a better chance of staying with the same tempo, which makes it easier to comp later (i don't use clik)

in fact, when i do basics, i just let it run, and go through a few takes without stopping, trying to stick to the same tempo

we might go over the intro a few times, or do a couple of bridges, or whatever

afterwards, i'll go through it, leave the good stuff and trash the crap

of course, i couldn't do it without my 60 gig drive
Old 25th January 2017 | Show parent
  #47
Lives for gear
 
GYang's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
I did recently several full fledged analogue tape recordings on two ATR 2" into 5088. So, old school, but incredible sonic experience.
Going back to PC, VSTi, conversions is crippling to in-depth sensing of natural sounding music. I never before did it full analog without single digital piece in the chain.
Like going back to the youth, clean brain, clean perception, totally forgotten sonic eden.
No digital setup, independently on its dynamic range, can actually fully replace it, just ressemble and emulate with inherent virtual sheen that we are used to percieve as high resolution.
Old 25th January 2017
  #48
Gear Guru
I use a lot of new Scotch 2" tape here. Yes, they still make 2" shipping and packing tape.
Old 25th January 2017 | Show parent
  #49
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by GYang ➑️
PC, VSTi, conversions is crippling to in-depth sensing of natural sounding music.
Speaking of the revival of this 15-year-old thread, your sentence is pretty cool...sounds like a WalterS statement from 2002.
Old 26th January 2017
  #50
Gear Guru
 
Drumsound's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I've got a tape record starting in a couple of weekends. Tomorrow I have to ship back 2 reels of used 499...
#StickyShed
Old 26th January 2017
  #51
Lives for gear
 
burns46824's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
I track to 2" and mix to 1/2". No dumping into ProTools. Yes, it is worth it.

Most pieces of modern recording gear are toys.
Old 27th January 2017
  #52
Gear Nut
 
seedubs's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Just got a Tascam atr80 2in. I never knew Tascam could sound this good. Drums and bass are the tracks that benefit the most.
Old 27th January 2017 | Show parent
  #53
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
... as much as possible...
Old 27th January 2017 | Show parent
  #54
Lives for gear
 
Seamus TM's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams ➑️
I use a lot of new Scotch 2" tape here. Yes, they still make 2" shipping and packing tape.
Yes, but isn't there any way to improve upon it?
Old 27th January 2017
  #55
Gear Guru
No, it is the best. I sold off my analog tape machines back in the early 1990's. I talked to a 3M engineer and he told me 3M was getting out of the magnetic media biz. No more tape, no more 8 track, no more cassettes, no more floppy discs, no more VHS.

I asked why and he told me "hard drives".
Old 27th January 2017 | Show parent
  #56
Gear Guru
 
Drumsound's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by seedubs ➑️
Just got a Tascam atr80 2in. I never knew Tascam could sound this good. Drums and bass are the tracks that benefit the most.
A friend of mine had one of those (as did Johnny K, who's old ATR 60 1/4" used to be mine) and they do sound pretty damn good.
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