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Buyer Beware ? (please give me your input on this iffy for sale case)
Old 10th March 2003
  #1
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Buyer Beware ? (please give me your input on this iffy for sale case)

I contacted someone about a nice piece of high end gear they have for sale. The price quoted to me is a little less than one half of what the product usually goes for. Upon asking how he could afford to sell such a unit for such a low price, he told me he was buying from music stores in Europe that are closing. Seems like a nice guy, and I don't mean at all to make him sound shady, but he wants a wire transfer to the European country he is in, and that just doesn't sound legit. You hear so many stories of people in Indonesia ripping people off this way, and I'd be hard pressed to spend this kind of $ without some sort of recourse. Again, seems like a cool guy, but personalities don't matter to me when dealing with this kind of cash. Any opinions?
Old 10th March 2003
  #2
Lives for gear
 
loudist's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
do an escrow account type of transaction...
Old 10th March 2003
  #3
Lives for gear
 
cashewcupcake's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Hey um, what's this guy's name? I almost bought a manley 16x2 from someone who had the EXACT SAME STORY. HE would ONLY accept wire transfer. I asked about escrow and offered to pay the fees. He said NO.

You're easily easily easily unreversably****ed if you wire money internationally.

So what's his name?
Old 10th March 2003
  #4
Lives for gear
 
loudist's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I agree, if they won't do escrow, they aren't on the up and up... simple.
Old 10th March 2003
  #5
SC
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
"Seems like a nice guy,..."

Professional con-artists always do.
Old 10th March 2003
  #6
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Fae,

You know his name. =P

Thanks guys. Definitely pro. con job.

Asked all the same questions, NO to every one.
Old 10th March 2003
  #7
Founder
 
Jules's Avatar
I am new to all this but want to get busy soon on Ebay (privately selling) is PayPal "safe"
???
Old 10th March 2003
  #8
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Jules,

I've used PayPal without a single hitch probably a dozen times now. I'd say it's a very safe way to go about doing things.
Old 10th March 2003
  #9
Lives for gear
 
seawell's Avatar
I almost bought a U47 from this same guy last week. Good thing we didn't fall for it guys. I really like when the "community" comes together and helps one another out. There's a great story going on over on Fletcher's recpit forum about a guy who's trying to sell a stolen Sony C800G. Sounds like he's about to get busted so that's good news. I had a "friend" write me a bad check for a Soundelux U99 about 4 months ago so I love to see when these guys actually don't succeed at their sick little schemes. Now, hopefully I'll get my money or the U99 back soonyuktyy
Old 10th March 2003
  #10
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Well that was a close one! ...not. ;-)

I'm sorry to hear you got stiffed on the U99! Good thing that Sony guy is going to get pinched.
Old 10th March 2003
  #11
Lives for gear
 
loudist's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
BA and/or fae,

Who is this guy and what are his methods for advertising? Was it ebay?

One thing about paypal... you cannot get your money back after it is sent...

There is an escrow option at ebay. For piddly stuff, its not worth it. For wallet wrenching stuff... definitly use it.

Escrow protects both parties from a rip off.

ebay escrow info page
Old 10th March 2003
  #12
Lives for gear
 
cashewcupcake's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
email from him:

> I will support the shipping costs,if, you will
> support the money transfer commission.About escrow
> your sugestion it is good only theoretical .I used
> escrow before and in practice all is different.If I
> were in USA it would had been easyer for both of us
> to use this method.Payment will be done by cash
> money transfer through all major instant cash
> transfer services like Money Gramm or Western Union
> Cash Money Transfer.This is the only and the best
> way for each of us to let the transaction be
> completed and that is because other ways take too
> much time , you know the bureaucratic systems here
> require a lot of papers and also a lot of wasted
> time.I will ship you the products immediately after
> I have the payment confirmation from you. You will
> mail me the confirmation that should include the
> full sender's name and address, exact amount and
> also the money transfer control number that
> registers the transfer.
> After I check the transfer will forward you the
> merchandise. Hope you will agree to the terms and we
> will finish the transaction successfully.
> Here are my details that you need for money
> transfer:
>
> Name: Mark Eshleman
> Address: Plaza Carlos 10
> Zip: 28020
> City: Madrid
> Country: Spain
> Also,please send your shipping address because I
> want to prepare your package.
> If you decide to make the payment today, you will
> have the product in 3-4 days the most.
>
> Looking forward to completing the business in good
> terms.
>
> Thank you and best regards !
>




email: [email protected]
Old 10th March 2003
  #13
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Dear Sir,

I have right now available your Manley 16x2 Tube Mixer with 16 mic preamps .The price is $3000.The product is brand new , have all papers and warranty.You will get the product with ALL THE ACCESSORIES that you need and be sure that it will be a fast and, of course, safe way to ship it. If any damage appears during the shipping I will support them all and if necessary, I'll give you the money back or the same product new, too. The shipping will be made by UPS (I prefer) but if you want another way, it is OK.
I will support the shipping costs,if, you will pay the money transfer fee.
I told you that I'm from US but I'm in Dublin ,Ireland right now, buying from stores in bankruptcy here.If you don't already know, payment will be done by cash money transfer through all major instant cash transfer services like Money Gram or Western Union Cash Money Transfer.This is the only and the best way for each of us to let the transaction be completed and that is because other ways take too much time , you know the bureaucratic systems here require a lot of papers and also a lot of wasted time.I will ship you the products immediately after I have the payment confirmation from you. You will mail me the confirmation that should include the full sender's name and address, exact amount and also the money transfer control number that registers the transfer.
After I check the transfer will forward you the merchandise. Hope you will agree to the terms and we will finish the deal in good terms.
Here are my details that you need for money transfer:

Name:Greg Terrell
Address:22 William Street
City:Dublin
Country:Republic of Ireland.
Also,please send me your shipping address because I want to prepare your package.
If you decide to make the payment today, you will have the product in 5-7 days the most.

Looking forward to completing the business in good terms.

Thank you and best regards !

Greg
Old 10th March 2003
  #14
Lives for gear
 
cashewcupcake's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
ebay.
Old 10th March 2003
  #15
Lives for gear
 
cashewcupcake's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
WTF this guy is big time

It was the same item with me- Manley 16x2!!
Old 10th March 2003
  #16
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Sucks, right! Imagine scoring a 16 mic input manley for 3 grand!
Old 10th March 2003
  #17
Lives for gear
 
seawell's Avatar
Just so you guys will know I just checked on ebay and all of a sudden he is "no longer a registered user." hmmmm...

Check it out: U47 Auction

The email I received was almost identical to the ones you guys got. I hope the guy who won this auction doesn't get ripped off.
Old 10th March 2003
  #18
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Check out Greg's last letter to me:

Ben,

No offense ,but why do you are so scared?Your concerns make me feel uncomfortable too.Why do you want to put me in a delicate situation?
Let me clarify this situation for you. I am a serious seller, not a stupid one who tries to go to jail for an auction.I want a fast, but correct business and because I need the money very fast in this moment, I chose this method. Please acknowledge that as soon as I receive the MTCN and verify the transfer I will send you the product and the tracking number from UPS to be able to track it.By the way,I am probably one of the most serious people you know and you don't even know this.

Regards and all the best!
Old 10th March 2003
  #19
Lives for gear
 
cashewcupcake's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
He said the exact same thing to me. I'd like to meet this guy and inflict some pain on him.

I sent an email to that U47 buyer warning him.
Old 10th March 2003
  #20
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
Wow, scary stuff. I'd actually done a couple wire transfers for in the range of a couple hundred to get some Siemens and Telefunken modules from Europe and all went smoothly. As opposed to one American seller who right now isn't returning my emails after payment has been sent . . .

Bear
Old 10th March 2003
  #21
Gear Head
 
🎧 15 years
seems to be a growing problem????

Check out this closed ebay sale...
Manley 16x2 sold for $3200,
Check out the seller's name.
Gearslutz, be careful in times of poor economy this stuff spreads like wild fire.

Renshen.


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...category=23785
Old 10th March 2003
  #22
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
I don't think anyone should buy pro audio gear off of eBay besides from guys with a real good track record. Kind of a bummer, as I'm always looking to score on there.
Old 10th March 2003
  #23
Lives for gear
 
cashewcupcake's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Hey I've bought a lot of stuff on ebay before with no problems. The safest ways to buy are to use Paypal, or escrow. With paypal you can dispute a charge (IF YOU USED YOUR CREDIT CARD TO PAY).
Old 10th March 2003
  #24
Lives for gear
 
Kris's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
So the guy went from Spain, to Ireland, and now Tallahassee??? How the hell is he going to pick up his cash?
Old 11th March 2003
  #25
Lives for gear
 
guittarzzan's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I'd strongly recommend the escrow deal. It costs a little moolah, but well worth it when you try to sleep at night wondering if your gear will actually show up.
I had a similar deal on an hd core card. Nice guy, but selling for several thousand dollars less than used on ebay. I did escrow, got the card and all is good. If you have any doubt at all and it's a considerable amount of money, you're insane not to use escrow imo.

good luck,
Steve
Old 11th March 2003
  #26
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
BEWARE !!! DANGEROUS TRANSACTION !!!

Hi all,

I recently was looking to buy an Apple Bi pro.

I saw one on ebay at very low cost. The guy who sell it want a cash transfert by western union and only in few country. (situation exactly like yours same strory about closed compagny...)

But in the meantime a friend of mine find a similar offer and he chose to try it, I don't. To good to be real a bi 1.25 + flat screen under 1.5k USD ! I was even ready to go abroad and but the seller always decline this offer.

So my friend send 1400 Euros for a Mac G4 2x 1.25 by western Union at a name he was free to choose.

The seller asked for infos about the wire. Claiming it was only to be sure the cash was available. He asked for the name of the recipient too.

These man are DANGEROUS.
He simply use the name and

HE MAKE FLASE PAPER !!!!!

Go to estern union and took the cash...

From different email, I've understand that they can make paper for SPAIN, GERMANY,ITALY,ENGLAND (in less than a day !!!)

Make noise about it !!!

Salvator

And please try to go for peace.
Old 12th March 2003
  #27
Gear Head
 
🎧 15 years
Nearly bought a distressor on Ebay about a month ago. The seller wouldnt accept Escrow, pay pal, etc. Had to be a direct bank transfer. That was enough for me not to go ahead. A week or so later theres a negative rating from the guy that bought the Distressor. "This Man Is A Con Artist Beware". After a couple of days there is no sign of the sellers E Bay account. so I dont know what the full outcome of the story is.


What saddens me is that some of these guys must be involved or have been involved in audio engineering because they talk with some knowledge.
Old 12th March 2003
  #28
Gear Addict
 
audiogeek1's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Kris
So the guy went from Spain, to Ireland, and now Tallahassee??? How the hell is he going to pick up his cash?
If you are doing a wire transfer he can set up an account at any bank and then he can wire it to another bank over the phone no problem @all. All of these items appear to be under 10,000 so transfering to another country would not get the same scrutiny? as if it was over 10.000.

Just my take on it.

Mike
Old 13th March 2003
  #29
Gear Nut
 
madrigal's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by audiogeek1
If you are doing a wire transfer he can set up an account at any bank and then he can wire it to another bank over the phone no problem @all.
Chances are he doesn't even need to do that - this scam is lucrative enough to support more than one person unfortunately, and it'd be simple to get someone else to pick up the cash.

That said, this seller had "dodgy" written all over him from the start: he's been registered only a month and all his previous transactions are buys, yet he's suddenly selling a 3K piece of gear, and his emails sound like something from a nigerian 419 scam. Maybe if he tries it again someone should get a bit of revenge by doing something like ...this

I live in dublin too, and that irish address he gave was bogus...
Old 13th March 2003
  #30
Moderator
 
EveAnna Manley's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Hey guys,
I have posted the following on rec.audio.pro and now on my website, linkable from the Manley 16x2 page.

Wanna buy one cheap? Beware of eBay Fraud!

This is a general warning to everyone looking to buy a Manley Mixer listed on eBay way cheap, too cheap. There has been somebody listing a Manley 16x2 Mixer repeatedly on eBay for the last 6 months for a ridiculously low price. If you are considering "winning" that auction, think about a few things.

Some handy tips for future reference: Beware when you buy something like this that is priced just too good to be true. The price that fraudster has been listing that mixer at is below our build-cost. Anyone with half brains would list it much much higher and make some bucks.

Also look at the items the "seller" has previously sold or bought. The last guy I busted was using someone's account who only had bought and sold stamps. I placed a bid on the item and got the seller's info and called him up. That account holder was a guy in Canada who collected stamps and owned a Baskin Robbins franchise. Sound like he might have an expensive exotic mixer for sale? No way. He wasn't aware his account had been compromised.

Be careful... and either use PayPal and buy the extra protection (as if it will really do you any good) and don't ever just send cash or have PayPal yank money right out of your bank account. Don't use a ATM/check card. Use a credit card if all doesn't go well at least you have recourse with your credit card company because PayPal really offers you F%^K-ALL protection. Don't be sending a cashier's check or sending money to some unknown guy overseas.

Get all details about the seller before you make payment. Speak with the seller. Make sure he knows he has a mixer for sale on eBay. Chances are he doesn't even know what a Manley Mixer is if his account has been hi-jacked. If you suddenly see those "shades" go up next to the seller, run away quickly. This seems to be the M.O. The fraudster changes the email address and account name right as the auction is closing so you will speak with him, not the poor innocent "stamp-seller".

Watch out for auctions that list nothing specific about the product. That mixer auction that keeps getting relisted didn't even tell you whether it was LINE, MIC, or 8+8 version. The text in that ad (along with the extra bit about the Langevin DVC) was lifted from an old page on the Sweetwater website and the pictures were taken off another Manley dealer, doucets.com Right click those pictures and see where they are coming from. Many legit sellers will have taken pictures of the actual unit.

Get a serial number of the unit from the seller before you pay and then email it to me and I can give you the history of the unit. If the seller cannot give you the serial number, then he probably doesn't have the unit to sell you!

These are tips of advice for future reference. I am glad you didn't get ripped off this time.

To best assure you aren't the victim of an ebay fruad, just buy the unit from your local dealer!

And no, there have been no european bankrupted stores with Manley Mixers sitting around to be liquidated.

If the story sounds fishy, then it is.
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