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How would you edit this?
Old 8th March 2003
  #1
Gear Nut
 
🎧 15 years
How would you edit this?

Hi,

Need to clear my head......maybe someone can see a way of doing the following?

Working on a punky pop (blondie type) track.

I have just tracked drums to a click and reference vocal and egt.

1. The guitar and click are locked on the beat. Feel good.

2. The kit has a "pushed" feel so the kick is always ahead of the grid.

Together there is the right tension and groove. Slightly edgy, intense..nice.

The drum track feels good but is lacking in places so deffinately
needs some work via edits.

I don't want to loose the feel of the track though. Want to retain pushed feel.

How do I use beat detective to edit drums with kicks and snares ahead of the beat?

Locking to the grid just kills the track. Generating a grid from the drummers playing does not help because I really do need to tighten up the performance of the drums.....................

Shifting EVERYTHING, whilst grouped, so that the first kick locks onto the grid might help? But...then your click track and refs are "behind" and off the grid.

I am sure there is a simple sollution to this but am too buggered to think straight!

I have checked both forums for the last couple of hours but nothing.


Any thoughts etc?

Thanks so much!

Nik
Old 8th March 2003
  #2
Founder
 
Jules's Avatar
"The drum track feels good but is lacking in places so definately
needs some work via edits."

1) Isolate the bad sections
2) Use Beat Detective on those sections to generate individual slices per beat
3) Hand move offending beats untill they groove well like the rest of the tune
4) Fade / smooth the repaired sections
5) Consolodate regions
6) Get back to overdubbing

No 'automatic' fixing for you!

You have to do it by "hand / ear"

The "Old Skool" PT way!

heh

It is verry possible there is a 'groove template' method you could use that I haven't bothered to learn on PT5.....

Also, PT 6, just out, has more features added to its Beat Detective function, some might be perfect for your issues.
Old 8th March 2003
  #3
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Or, you could always leave it as-is and call it style. Not everything has to be perfect. I'll edit out bad fills and other ackward bits but leave the rest. What do the musos think about the grid and editing?
Old 8th March 2003
  #4
Here for the gear
 
🎧 15 years
I would have to agree. Time to roll up your sleeves and does some fancy mouse work. While useful, I haven't found beat detective or the recycle type features in Cubase SX to be good enough to replace the old fashioned manual edit!

Kaiser
Old 8th March 2003
  #5
Founder
 
Jules's Avatar
Jay - "What do the musos think about the grid and editing?"

I find ALL drummers are relived that brief but faulty passages can be repaired, resulting in an error free drum part, minus faults that would otherwise 'bug them'.

Also, it would be a misunderstanding to assume that 'grid edit' comes into play on every DAW drum edit. A lot has to be done manually and tweaked by ear if it is to sound any good.
Old 9th March 2003
  #6
Gear Nut
 
🎧 15 years
Thanks so much for taking the time to put your thoughts, ideas down. Very much appreciated!

Thanks,

Nik
Old 10th March 2003
  #7
Lives for gear
 
Henchman's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I have just gone throught he process of re-tracking all the drums for my band's upcoming CD. We fired the old drummer, and found a new guy. Thank God.

I too had a couple of spots that needed some tweeking, and did thta manually. And even though I know everythings not exactly on the beat, it sound smuch better than the old takes, that HAD to be edited to death.

This guy also tends to push a bit, which sounds really good.So I had to froce myself to ignore the wavefromms, and go with the feel.
Old 10th March 2003
  #8
Gear Nut
 
🎧 15 years
I guess I will just do the same and then create a grid from the tweaked kit so as to make loops etc. a bit easier to snap.

Thanks!

Nik
Old 10th March 2003
  #9
Gear Guru
 
🎧 15 years
In a situation like this, I like to move a whole verse or section from where the feel is good and drop it over the section with the" bad feel".

Group the drums and then in grid mode, you can copy some stuff- say 8 measures from a verse that has the right feel, and paste it, still in grid mode into the section that feels weak.

The pasted section will retain the same relationship to the grid (for example: "slightly pushed") as it had before. There is of course, no guarantee that it will lock up to the rest of the band in the exact same way because the other musicians might be playing a slightly different feel at a different part of the song. But often it works quite well and it doesn't take long to try.

And of course you have to be careful line up with the song structure. If you are fixing a verse, grab from the same part of the verse, etc.

Moving individual notes by hand is hard work but it can get you where you want to be. You may need to go to the part with the 'good feel' and zoom in and analyze or "measure" where the notes fall. Is the snare on 2 a bit pushed? is the snare on 4 back in the pocket? By how much?

The great thing about a DAW is you always have Undo and Save As.
Old 11th March 2003
  #10
Gear Nut
 
🎧 15 years
Thanks,

I start my edits today.

Keep well,

Nik
Old 11th March 2003
  #11
Gear Nut
 
drummerman15's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I try to get the drum tracks feeling right before I track anything else I plan on keeping. If anything sounds off right away, I try to fix it right off so it wont affect anyone else. My reasoning is simple: If the drum track is off the click or sounds awkward, it will affect the other musicians as they track their parts. Chances are, if you track 24+ tracks and go back to fix the "sore spot" on the drums, you'll probably find that some of the other parts compensated for the "sore spot" and you get to edit 24 tracks now instead of just the drums.

I'm relatively new to ProTools and, as a drummer, I really don't really like the idea of the "absolutely perfect" track. I try to keep my edits to an absolute minimum. Anything that is not perfect and not worth editing, I call "character."
Old 14th March 2003
  #12
Gear Maniac
 
recorderman's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Re: How would you edit this?

Quote:
Originally posted by Nik
Hi,

Need to clear my head......maybe someone can see a way of doing the following?

Working on a punky pop (blondie type) track.

I have just tracked drums to a click and reference vocal and egt.

1. The guitar and click are locked on the beat. Feel good.

2. The kit has a "pushed" feel so the kick is always ahead of the grid.

Together there is the right tension and groove. Slightly edgy, intense..nice.

The drum track feels good but is lacking in places so deffinately
needs some work via edits.

I don't want to loose the feel of the track though. Want to retain pushed feel.

How do I use beat detective to edit drums with kicks and snares ahead of the beat?

Locking to the grid just kills the track. Generating a grid from the drummers playing does not help because I really do need to tighten up the performance of the drums.....................

Shifting EVERYTHING, whilst grouped, so that the first kick locks onto the grid might help? But...then your click track and refs are "behind" and off the grid.

I am sure there is a simple sollution to this but am too buggered to think straight!

I have checked both forums for the last couple of hours but nothing.


Any thoughts etc?

Thanks so much!

Nik
First...BeatDetective works REALLY good (i.e. you can't tell it was used) IF you learn how to use it.

1. Work to a grid based upon and locke to the click that the gtr & vocal used...they feel good right?
therefore...begin by shifting the whole drum performance back the required amount of milliseconds so that the kick's (ect) that are now "always head" of "1" re now either pon the beat or just slightly behind...use or "ears & eyes."
Now, if you havbe access to BD...go through the track with it breaking things up no smaller than bars...usually if the drummer is decent, then getting the beginning of the bar to land right will sound good across the rest of the bar.
...aftter you've done this...listen down...now you'll probabbly only have to go in at fix a beat or sub beat on a snare or kick here and there...have fun...

...when doing seperation give yourself a buffer of around 6ms.
...try the strenght setting at around 87 and the swing at anywhere between 15-50 (listen...undo..adjsut..listen)...this really helps...if you don't use a little swing it can hget robotic...jsut doing whole bars keeps you from gettin ****...and as I said usually most drummers are goo across the rest of the bar if you set 'em straight at the top....

..you can do this and acheive/keep a great feel....
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