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What monitors are the new ns-10m?
Old 14th April 2005
  #1
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Big 3rd's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
What monitors are the new ns-10m?

It's funny discussing monitor preferences and selections nowadays. Because of the many different technologies used by various monitor manufacturers, it seems as if the preferences in monitors are a lot more dynamic (for lack of a better word).

If you look back about 10 years ago, the ns-10 was THY monitor to have if you were even considering yourself a serious engineer. Hell, even to this day, the ns-10 is still probably the most beloved monitor out there.

Question: Is there a monitor out now(other than the ns-10s) that most of us can agree on as THY monitor to have? Of course, everyone didn't like the ns 10 but it was and still is an industry standard. But right now, is there a monitor that is embraced as much as the ns 10s? And what do you think the ns-10s have that other monitors lack (to make it the standard monitor even til this day)?
Old 14th April 2005
  #2
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thethrillfactor's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big 3rd
And why do you think it has that other monitors lack (to make it the standard monitor even til this day)?

Because Bob Clearmountain is not the Uber mixing guru he used to be.

It was Bob C that kinda made the NS10 on the SSL meter bridge a must have in modern studios.

And i disagree on the point that its a beloved monitor, i would say its more of the case that you had to learn to use it if you were going to be a freelancing engineer since they are everywhere.

A monitor just as an embraced?

Nope.

Unless you go by some of the guys here who are either Adam S3A freaks or Dynaudio BM6a's dudes.
Old 14th April 2005 | Show parent
  #3
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Thrill, so are you saying that, engineers that want ns-10s now (2005) are wanting them more for the exposure( because there are so many out there) than for their accuracy and quality?
Old 14th April 2005 | Show parent
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big 3rd
Thrill, so are you saying that, engineers that want ns-10s now (2005) are wanting them more for the exposure( because there are so many out there) than for their accuracy and quality?

Yes.

NS10's were never known for their accuracy and quality.

They were known for their uncanny ability to translate everywhere.

People want them now more than ever because they are afraid that they will totally disappear and so will their mixing skills.

Which if you think about it is just plain dumb.

You can learn any monitor if you chooose to.

Albeit it will take time, but as always time is something we always feel we don't have enough of.

I will tell you one group of engineers that will love to see them go...

The Mastering guys. heh
Old 14th April 2005 | Show parent
  #5
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Musiclab's Avatar
[QUOTE=thethrillfactor]
And i disagree on the point that its a beloved monitor, i would say its more of the case that you had to learn to use it if you were going to be a freelancing engineer since they are everywhere.

A monitor just as an embraced?

Nope. QUOTE]

Beloved? we used to call them Nasty Sounding 10's . Everyone knew what they sounded like and what things should sound like on them. I've thought about dumping mine and maybe getting the pro ac 100's or maybe the dynaudios, but so far it hasn't been too pressing.
Old 14th April 2005 | Show parent
  #6
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warhead's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Find me one stereo speaker set at Best Buy and Circuit City that sounds like an NS-10 and I'll buy the pair for you.

The value I see in NS10's is engineers hopping from studio to studio, and (to paraphrase G. Massenburg) knowing what the idiots at the labels are listening to.

I personally use the KRK V4's as my 'real world' monitor, works great to know what the bass etc might do to a boombox, TV or car stereo. I don't like going out to my car anymore if I can help it.

War
Old 14th April 2005 | Show parent
  #7
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🎧 15 years
except that the idiots at the labels are only listening to them because THEY saw them in the studios they'd go to.

"beloved" is not a word I'd use certainly!

I tend to think that perhaps Genelec 1033's are becoming almost as ubiquitous as Yamahas... and NEITHER is a speaker I can stand.

The first thing I do when I come into a stuido is have them take those (either or both) down off the console.
Old 14th April 2005 | Show parent
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wwittman
except that the idiots at the labels are only listening to them because THEY saw them in the studios they'd go to.

"beloved" is not a word I'd use certainly!

I tend to think that perhaps Genelec 1033's are becoming almost as ubiquitous as Yamahas... and NEITHER is a speaker I can stand.

The first thing I do when I come into a stuido is have them take those (either or both) down off the console.

You mean 1031's right WW?

Hey i picked up a pair just to learn them since they are eveyrwhere in the city.

I would ad an auratone, but that's like holdover before the NS10 craze.

I know Bob C has spoke for a while about the older Mac speakers and i've been trying them out for a while and he maybe on to something.

I definitely see why they work.

Lately i've actually been mixing with just 1031's and the little Mac speakers alone(no NS10's) and i like what i am hearing.

And the cool thing about the little Mac speakers is that they are easy to carry around.
Old 14th April 2005 | Show parent
  #9
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

NS10's were never known for their accuracy and quality.

They were known for their uncanny ability to translate everywhere.

You can learn any monitor if you chooose to.

Albeit it will take time, but as always time is something we always feel we don't have enough of.

I will tell you one group of engineers that will love to see them go...

The Mastering guys. heh
Just a couple of thoughts here:

While I do not wish to sound like an NS-10 advocate here [I don't really see myself as one -- I just don't hate them either], there is a pretty good argument to have a reference around that will translate anywhere. The NS-10 on top of a console has been that reference for people because of the 'translate-ability'.

I am not sure about the idea of learning any monitor you choose to. I think you need to find monitors that make sense to you, and learn the fine points as you get to know them better. Some speakers are just not going to make sense -- like using certain microphones, in my opinion. Plus, your monitoring situation makes a huge difference -- console top or speaker stands, room size and treatment, and especially if you are running around to different rooms for work. I carry around my own speakers, and fortunately they have EQ compensation on the top and bottom ends so I can tailor them from room to room. It is amazing how different they are set from one place to another. This could be another reason why the NS-10 lasted as long as it did -- since it is a 'midrange-dominant' speaker [for lack of a better term] it kept the focus on areas less susceptible to room anomalies.

I would think that if there was one reference used by a lot of people it would be helpful to mastering engineers, although there are SO many more variables in the equation now than there were 10-15 years ago that this is probably a moot point. There are so many other compression-related issues alone that dwarf the the basic tonal aspects of a mix. That said, it seems to me that because of the wide variety of monitors in use at the moment that the range of mastering 'issues' is going to be wider than with a more 'universal' reference.

Cheers,
John
Old 14th April 2005 | Show parent
  #10
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by wwittman

I tend to think that perhaps Genelec 1033's are becoming almost as ubiquitous as Yamahas... and NEITHER is a speaker I can stand.

The first thing I do when I come into a stuido is have them take those (either or both) down off the console.
I definitely feel that way about the Genelecs as well. I actually request in my set up sheets that they are completely removed from the control room before i or anyone else shows up, so no one gets any crazy ideas...

John
Old 14th April 2005 | Show parent
  #11
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor
I know Bob C has spoke for a while about the older Mac speakers and i've been trying them out for a while and he maybe on to something.

I definitely see why they work.
The weird thing for me is they work as a bass-check, of all things. They get all resonant if there's mud. Really nailed a big room club track recently on them. Threw it up on the big system, and the bass was just right.

Peece,
T. Tauri
Old 14th April 2005 | Show parent
  #12
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🎧 15 years
So thrill, would you say the same about Genelecs? Why do you think so many flocked to those? You think it's all hype from it being the latest high end monitor? Think it might be dynaudio or adams, next?
Old 15th April 2005 | Show parent
  #13
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor
I know Bob C has spoke for a while about the older Mac speakers and i've been trying them out for a while and he maybe on to something.

I definitely see why they work.

Lately i've actually been mixing with just 1031's and the little Mac speakers alone(no NS10's) and i like what i am hearing.

And the cool thing about the little Mac speakers is that they are easy to carry around.

OK, EXACTLY which little Mac speakers are we talking about here- those little clear things that look like ashtrays?
Old 15th April 2005 | Show parent
  #14
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4 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq
OK, EXACTLY which little Mac speakers are we talking about here- those little clear things that look like ashtrays?

No the older one's(no longer made of course) circa 1991-94?

I guess that would make them vintage right? heh
Old 15th April 2005 | Show parent
  #15
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4 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big 3rd
So thrill, would you say the same about Genelecs? Why do you think so many flocked to those? You think it's all hype from it being the latest high end monitor? Think it might be dynaudio or adams, next?

The Genelecs have become the norm because of the name and back when we were taking out favorite monitors from studio to studio(late 80's-mid 90's), Genelecs made it convenient by adding amps inside(as did Meyer but were more expensive).

To be honest i've never liked them, but they are the norm especially here in NYC.

Will it be Dyanudio or Adam?

Nah, for the last couple of years i've seen lots of Mackie HR824's.

Don' ask me why but it might be because of the popularity of hihop and that's what a lot of guys have at home.

It really will come down to who ever is churning out the hits.

If it is discovered that Andy Wallace is using (blank) to mix through, than you will see (blank) everywhere.

Remember the studio business is still full of the "sheep"mentality.



Nope neither
Old 15th April 2005 | Show parent
  #16
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🎧 15 years
Please don't start pissing on Mackies HR824. I have two!

I
Old 15th April 2005 | Show parent
  #17
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Big 3rd's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

If it is discovered that Andy Wallace is using (blank) to mix through, than you will see (blank) everywhere.

Remember the studio business is still full of the "sheep"mentality.



Nope neither
Very, very, very true, unfortunately. I will go even further and say the whole music business is full of the cookie cutter syndrome. What do you monitor with and what do you think of the hr824s?

Another question: In your opinion, do you think most people get better results from their monitors because of the monitors' attributes (quality, accuracy, flatness, etc.)or more because of the persons familiarity with the monitors they possess?
Old 15th April 2005 | Show parent
  #18
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🎧 15 years
Familiarity is important, but I think it's mostly about what you get on with.
It's a very PERSONAL choice.

A speaker that makes you DO the right things is the one you want, not the one that just 'sounds good'.

And of course, you need to be able to work comfortably on it.

Auratones, or the Apple powered monitors (or I use ROR cubes) are a different thing.
They're more of a car speaker, lowest common denominator reference.
Not your MAIN monitor.

I don't think Yamaha's DO "translate well"... they just worked really well for Bob Clearmountain.
And to his credit I don't think he ever said anything else.

THey work for some people, but...
One could easily say, with some assurance, that more BAD mixes have been done on Yamaha NS-10's than on just about anything else as well.

You really have to find what works for YOU.
Old 15th April 2005 | Show parent
  #19
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1 Review written
🎧 15 years
never liked NS 10s. bought a pair of BM6As and BM15As. i find with the 6s you kinda have to 'imagine' the high and low end. with the 15s it's pretty spot on.

never heard adam 3As but am looking forward to it.

like genelecs 1031s about as much as NS 10s, so i wouldn't be surprised they became the new standard.

anyone know where those little apple spkrs can be found?
Old 15th April 2005 | Show parent
  #20
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🎧 15 years
Also, with the NS 10s you can't really know what's going on in the low end; and worst of all, you get super fast ear fatigue.

I
Old 15th April 2005 | Show parent
  #21
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🎧 15 years
Yeah, it's what you like.

I can't imagine anyone hating Genelecs, it's amazing to even see remarks like that
But then I see posts where people like AT4033 mics on lead vocals too, so it's a big, varied world out there...

My mixes translate just as well on my 1031s as they did on my old NS10s....I can just stand hearing the song over and over much better now

TH
Old 15th April 2005 | Show parent
  #22
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paterno's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by insomnio
Also, with the NS 10s you can't really know what's going on in the low end; and worst of all, you get super fast ear fatigue.

I
You learn how the woofers need to look by their excursion. If they are bending in a strange way when you tun it up you have problems -- if the woofer looks like a piston when you turn up the volume then you are in good shape.

As far as super fast ear fatigue, this is ENTIRELY dependent upon how loud you monitor. If you are cranking it up all day long, you will be in trouble -- but then again, this is with any monitor. The midrange detail is what allows you to mix on NS-10s at a low volume and still get accurate balance results where it counts -- in the mids.

For all this talk about Bob Clearmountain's use, no one has mentioned any details about how loud he monitors while he mixes...

-John
Old 15th April 2005
  #23
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🎧 15 years
Hey WW & JP,
just curious what monitors do you guys prefer mixing with, or what do you carry around with you?

michael
Old 15th April 2005 | Show parent
  #24
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by oceantracks
Yeah, it's what you like.

I can't imagine anyone hating Genelecs, it's amazing to even see remarks like that
But then I see posts where people like AT4033 mics on lead vocals too, so it's a big, varied world out there...

My mixes translate just as well on my 1031s as they did on my old NS10s....I can just stand hearing the song over and over much better now

TH
MY experience with Genelecs is that they sound good for the first five minutes, and then I am constantly trying to reach into the speaker to hear any detail. And by an hour into it I am totally lost. And switching from anything else to them during a session just makes the whole situation immediately worse.

As it has been said here already -- it's what works for you...

John
Old 15th April 2005 | Show parent
  #25
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4 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big 3rd
Very, very, very true, unfortunately. I will go even further and say the whole music business is full of the cookie cutter syndrome. What do you monitor with and what do you think of the hr824s?

Another question: In your opinion, do you think most people get better results from their monitors because of the monitors' attributes (quality, accuracy, flatness, etc.)or more because of the persons familiarity with the monitors they possess?

I hate the Mackie HR824's.

What monitors?

There are always 2 commom denominators for me , i always mix vocals and drums on NS10's and i check the vocal balance in mono on an auratone.

What i use for everything else depends on music style.

I like the older Tannoys for rap,Dynaudios for rock and Dunlavy SM1's for pop and everything else.

And on the last thing the answer is yes and both.
Old 15th April 2005 | Show parent
  #26
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4 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by raal

anyone know where those little apple spkrs can be found?

One word...Ebay!!!

I bought a pair for $75.
Old 15th April 2005 | Show parent
  #27
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by gamrecords
Hey WW & JP,
just curious what monitors do you guys prefer mixing with, or what do you carry around with you?

michael
I've been using two different NHT Pro products, the A-20 system for tracking and mixing in various rooms, and also using the M-00 and S-00 system for mixing at home in PTools, and also in studios along with the A-20's. I have been very happy with the results on both systems. I also keep NS-10's on the console when working in other places, as a secondary system...

Cheers
-John
Old 15th April 2005 | Show parent
  #28
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Igotsoul4u's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
On 1031's.......I find them to be quite frustrating unless I screw around with the dip switches in the back. A lot of people don't bother touching the switches on the back of the 1031's and that is a huge mistake in my opinion. So don't judge them before you try to create your own little curve. I'm not saying they are the best, but they can be quite flexible throughout different genres. For the record, i wish proacs would become an industry standard.
Old 15th April 2005 | Show parent
  #29
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4 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Igotsoul4u
For the record, i wish proacs would become an industry standard.

Ummm...i don't know about.

The best sounding ProAc speakers are the big Responses(3's and 4's).

I've never liked the Studio 100's which sound nothing like the big's.

Also they are ported and in my opinion this takes them off the list.

In a perfect world probably an ATC something.
Old 15th April 2005 | Show parent
  #30
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xaos's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Ebay $1! About 2 months ago.
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