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pro tool hd purchase this week, am I a idiot?
Old 16th February 2003
  #31
Gear Addict
 
Bernd G's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
My advice: definitely buy that coffee maker. You are going to make your clients happy, spend less money and it will not be outdated in two years like PT.
OK, seriously: It is all about latency and this is why having DSP cards is a still a little better than running host-processor based systems. But there are workarounds: such as taking the signal off the mic before it goes to the A/D and sending it through a separate monitor mixer (your old Mackie will come in handy here). You should make sure that you make at least $15K from your PT system alone in one year, otherwise YOU are paying to work and I would suggest that it is best to try to avoid that. Everytime I shell out money for equipment that loses value this quickly my heart bleeds, it is a little like flushing money down the toilet....
Good luck

Bernd G
Old 16th February 2003
  #32
Lives for gear
 
mac black's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
dont buy it !!!! i know many users that moved to HD and are cursing pt.
without plugins pt is nothing but a multitrack(just like logic 649£) on the old pt system you can get loads of "free" plugins that otherwise(like when u buy HD ) you'd have to pay 10's of thousends of pounds for.
wait !!
unless you wanne spend 30000 on a workable pt system !!!
Old 16th February 2003
  #33
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Dude, please tell me you are not telling this guy to avoid HD because he might actually have to pay for his plugins. If that's you're headspace, I would ask you to give away your own work and never charge again for recording music.
Would that work out for you? Because that's what you're recommending be done to the plugin developers. Some of whom are friends of mine. But even if they were not, right is right and wrong is wrong. Or at least, it used to be.

You know, guys, I'm not a PT user. But it shreds my mind to know, on the outside looking in, how many people have not upgraded to what is obviously a better sounding and more powerful HD system, just because they can't use their friggin' cracked Mix plugins on HD.

So how many people are waiting to upgrade to HD until the HD plugs are cracked? If so, I call you a weasel to your face and I flatulate in your general direction.

No, I don't own Mix or HD, nor do I make plugins. But I just cannot stand the hypocrisy of musicians who whine about music piracy while typing out the message on a Mac full of cracked plugins. I see it over again, even here locally. It sucks.

Regards,
Brian T
Old 16th February 2003
  #34
Lives for gear
 
Henchman's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
You know how many pro's I've seen using cracked plug-ins? Hell they're the ones with CD's full of the things.
Old 16th February 2003
  #35
Gear Addict
 
mixer's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by mac black
dont buy it !!!! i know many users that moved to HD and are cursing pt.
without plugins pt is nothing but a multitrack(just like logic 649£) on the old pt system you can get loads of "free" plugins that otherwise(like when u buy HD ) you'd have to pay 10's of thousends of pounds for.
wait !!
unless you wanne spend 30000 on a workable pt system !!!
most folks i know have already upgraded and love hd...the sound is just so much better than tdm regardless of the converters used..and no one i know is cursing it...i don't work for protools and engineer on everything in lots of studios...why pay for obsolete equipment.
Old 16th February 2003
  #36
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Henchman
You know how many pro's I've seen using cracked plug-ins? Hell they're the ones with CD's full of the things.
And your point is.................?


Brian T
Old 16th February 2003
  #37
Lives for gear
 
Alécio Costa's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I have a PT mix system and do not use cracked stuff. It is not fair. But I criticize companies like Waves because we honest guys pay for every minor upgrade and that is not cheap. I paid $400 on may and do not have the right to go to 4.o. Just 3.5 and 3.6 where no plugins function at 192K, if for example I was into the HD system.

I just thinkthey could go easier with that. For example, Waves TDM MAster bundle lists for $1800. The old TDM bundle I paid $1100, than an upgrade that changed almost nothing, + $400 and now to 4.0, plus XXXXX.

If they could cut their pries at half more people would be going for the original thing.
Old 17th February 2003
  #38
Gear Addict
 
mixer's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Alécio Costa
I criticize companies like Waves because we honest guys pay for every minor upgrade and that is not cheap. I paid $400 on may and do not have the right to go to 4.o. Just 3.5 and 3.6 where no plugins function at 192K, if for example I was into the HD system.

I just thinkthey could go easier with that. For example, Waves TDM MAster bundle lists for $1800. The old TDM bundle I paid $1100, than an upgrade that changed almost nothing, + $400 and now to 4.0, plus XXXXX.

If they could cut their pries at half more people would be going for the original thing.
i am now upgrading to pt6 and have lots of plugs..waves is the only company that seems to love ripping off the customer for each upgrade..i just paid for the hd upgrade now its another 420 every other company is very reasonable and most are free....the problem is you need waves to function and they know it.
Old 17th February 2003
  #39
Lives for gear
 
Alécio Costa's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
TC guys were very kind with me. Sent 1.5 to 2.0 upgrade with no extra cost because they know proes come back and get more "salad".
And I live in Brazil, quite far from the scene.
I was really thinking of purchasing TDM Master Bundle, but them pay one upgrade to go 192K, another to go OS X and so the hell what more?
Old 17th February 2003
  #40
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by BrianT


No, I don't own Mix or HD, nor do I make plugins. But I just cannot stand the hypocrisy of musicians who whine about music piracy while typing out the message on a Mac full of cracked plugins. I see it over again, even here locally. It sucks.
Right on BT. Then the same folks go whining about how Napster and point to point file sharing is killing record sales.
Old 17th February 2003
  #41
Gear Addict
 
Bernd G's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
LOGIC, PROTOOLS and PIRACY

I agree with all of you above - if you make money from your work you need to pay the people that develop the technology, fair is fair. You wouldn't want the band that just got signed and who you helped to get there cut you out in the deal either, would you now?

Just another thought in case you have decided against PT and you would consider running LOGIC with some quality A/D/A converters and bussing it with a decent analog board.
I have been running LOGIC on MACs and PCs and some of the PCs are substantially faster and less than half the price. I have just completed a project in 24/96 recording 16 tracks simultaneously from two MOTU 896 interfaces into a refurbished DELL 4550 (very very quiet!), 2.4 PIV (price AFTER shipping $ 600 !). I am currently mixing down and so far I got over 20 (!) plugins going and running 30 tracks - all in 24/96 mind you and on a tweaked stock PC with average LOGIC 5.5 software. The band was happy and did not complain about latency. I know that LOGIC/MAC has threatened to discontinue the PC version but it has not happened yet and the PC version will not be obsolete before the MAC/PC, purchased now. If you are interested I would be happy to share my insights on making a stock DELL into a killer machine for audio at a trifle of cost.
Cheers
Old 17th February 2003
  #42
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Re: LOGIC, PROTOOLS and PIRACY

Quote:
Originally posted by Bernd G
I agree with all of you above - if you make money from your work you need to pay the people that develop the technology, fair is fair. You wouldn't want the band that just got signed and who you helped to get there cut you out in the deal either, would you now?

Just another thought in case you have decided against PT and you would consider running LOGIC with some quality A/D/A converters and bussing it with a decent analog board.
I have been running LOGIC on MACs and PCs and some of the PCs are substantially faster and less than half the price. I have just completed a project in 24/96 recording 16 tracks simultaneously from two MOTU 896 interfaces into a refurbished DELL 4550 (very very quiet!), 2.4 PIV (price AFTER shipping $ 600 !). I am currently mixing down and so far I got over 20 (!) plugins going and running 30 tracks - all in 24/96 mind you and on a tweaked stock PC with average LOGIC 5.5 software. The band was happy and did not complain about latency. I know that LOGIC/MAC has threatened to discontinue the PC version but it has not happened yet and the PC version will not be obsolete before the MAC/PC, purchased now. If you are interested I would be happy to share my insights on making a stock DELL into a killer machine for audio at a trifle of cost.
Cheers
FWIW, though I build my own PCs, I know that Dell embarked on a major commitment to address the noise emitted by their PCs. Not for music types (we're a drop in the bucket), but in response to various studies regarding workplace noise pollution.

How ironic it seems that of all the posts by musicians about the freaky loud noise of their computers, Dell "corporate-R-Us" currently builds the quietest computers, with an internal division dedicated to PC noise acoustics. Odd, but true.

Considering Apple's core markets, it's strange that they aren't there as well.


Regards,
Brian T
Old 17th February 2003
  #43
Lives for gear
 
mac black's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
you are right about the plugins there is no excuse to use cracked plugins !!
i wont recommend it to anyone. i ment that in logic you get more plugins then in pt and its a lot cheaper to buy them (with cards like the uad-1 and tc power core you get the same quality a pt plugin if not better...). you pay TWICE as much for pt plugins although its the same quality !
Old 17th February 2003
  #44
Lives for gear
 
Alécio Costa's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
VST, MAS are much more cheaper. What does TDM has that it is so complex?
Old 17th February 2003
  #45
Lives for gear
 
davemc's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Seeing this thread has turned from should I buy HD to plugins costs I will add a bit to eachyuktyy.

If you can see the worth in going PT instead of Logic, DP,Sonor, Samplitude or Nuendo. Then do it. At the end of the day, the end product that is created is way more important then the tools used. Yeah see I said it..
We all talk about this gear is better then that gear, I know people making good sounding still with ADAT's.
In Native latency is a prob, the stability is also. Some plugins sound better to me in TDM then RTAS.
Although if it works for you and the clients are happy to pay the bill why invest 10 times more.
If you get frustrated with it crashing, and the latencey and less power get PT. Also get PT if you want your session to be more protably in and out.

Re plugins, I think Erik could add a few comments, I think you pay more as it takes longer to code and with TDM you sell less the VST for home use.
Old 17th February 2003
  #46
Gear Addict
 
Bernd G's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
LOGIC and AUTOTUNE

I should probably start a new thread here. As far as LOGIC is concerned I forget to mention that some Direct X plugins don't work so well as their TDM counterparts. Re. Autotune: has anyone had success with LOGIC and using the graphical mode in Autotune 3? IT IS A MESS !! (see one thing, hear another). The TDM version works fine.
Old 18th February 2003
  #47
Lives for gear
 
adam_w's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Well, I've been really happy with my HD purchase, and yes it cost a fortune to upgrade all the plugs. I get the shakes trying NOT to buy new plugins ! I know that anything computer based is temporary and not a long term investment, but on the flip side that particular DAW always works & I like working in that environment, as for me it allows me to do more, faster, with less and make more money. It might not make sense if you've got a SSL , etc but it has allowed me to seriously **** with some bigger fish than myself when it comes time to step up..
Old 18th February 2003
  #48
Gear Nut
 
🎧 15 years
4 years on a mix plus and Apogee AD800SE and 2 HUIs, then last Summer moved to HD2 (now it's a HD3), HD192 and Control 24... Very, Very glad I made the change. It's rock steady, easy to use, and my projects are a big step up in terms of audio quality.
Old 18th February 2003
  #49
Lives for gear
 
Alécio Costa's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I went G3/PT24 to a nice G4/Mix system 5.1.1 TDM. paid for plugins, but will only switch to HD1 or HD2 when all the plugins or at least the ones I do need daily are currently doing 96k/OS X/PT 6.x compatible.
Old 20th February 2003
  #50
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
I got into a Protools HD-1 system last june and have been very happy
Can't help but think that more competition in the DAW industry has been good for us, that is as long as you like digital audio
The thing about protools is the integration of the parts; if that works for you, I'm really liking it
If you have time try out different softwares, I've stopped doing that I'm having more fun with mics,pres, and comps
good luck
daniel
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