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So what's an SSL? The end is near...
Old 5th February 2003
  #31
Lives for gear
 
groundcontrol's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Ditto above post!
Old 5th February 2003
  #32
Lives for gear
 
Curve Dominant's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
quote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Curve Dominant
It's an exploration. What does the song want to be? You don't know until you've explored the song through the singer's performance. Find the bliss in that performance, then caress the mix around that bliss.

That is the art of audio engineering.
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That's not engineering. That's production. There's a huge difference between them.
Correct.

I stand corrected.

I've been doing both simultaneously for so long now, the boundry between the two has become blurred beyond recognition.

Is that the wave of the future???

Can you have faith in yourself when all men doubt you?

I'm fighting that battle now...watch me!

BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM !!!
Old 5th February 2003
  #33
Lives for gear
 
Curve Dominant's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
posted by Dave Martin:
A recent Mariah Carey single was assembled your way, and it sounds awful.
Mr. Martin,

1) Do not benchmark your methods to somebody else's bad example.
2) Someone's poor utilization of sound methods do not automatically deem those methods unsound.
3) Have confidence in your execution of whatever methods you work with.
4) Do not judge a work by its methods before you've appraised it of its results.
5) Eliminate your ego from the equation.
Old 5th February 2003
  #34
Lives for gear
 
Steve Smith's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Easy, easy everyone....

Firstly, allow me to completely disqualify myself from any sort of non-biased standpoint, as I agree with Dave and Jay, but regularily comp a vocal from 3 - 4 takes...

The most imprtant thing for me is to have the singer at least singing phrases, ( read, I rarely try to punch a single word) so that the delivery is not contrived. This does work.

Thw other major point to be made here is that Dave and Jay are talking about making records for artists that already have defined what the artistc "vision" is for a track, whereas Eric seems to be discovering/creating what that vision is. There is a huge diffrence, and one is not neccasarily better than the other, but they are not interchangable. In the same way you cannot expect just anyone to deliver a vocal like Barbra... you cannot expect babs to allow someone to come in after the fact and dictate what her delivery was...
Old 5th February 2003
  #35
Gear Addict
 
Curious G's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I've got to hand it to you guys, you're passionate about what you do. Most of the vocal performances I work with (hell, most of the performances PERIOD) are combinations of takes either comps or roll&punch. I haven't had the pleasure of working with someone like Elvis (who felt he was cheating you if he didn't deliver a take in a single pass). Often times it ends up as a patchwork quilt... sometimes pretty and sometimes garish. Oh well.

Now, back to the slingfest!!!
Old 5th February 2003
  #36
Gear Addict
 
mixer's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Steve Smith
Easy, easy everyone....

expect just anyone to deliver a vocal like Barbra... you cannot expect babs to allow someone to come in after the fact and dictate what her delivery was...
thats true ..i was mixing at sound labs (bob guadio's studio) while barbra was doing her album with barry gibb/// you would have died if you say the number of 2inch tapes devoted just to vocal takes....she would to take after take and would never be satisfied......they would then combine for the master take.
as for the producer engineer label i find that the line between the two jobs has always been fuzzy....i think a lot of engineers who work all the time for long periods help a lot in the production of the music....help make the decisions...start the mix without the producer doing production decisions and creative decisions...that kind of ability to partner in production is to me what makes an engineer...not just picking the right mike..but helping get the best performance.
Old 9th February 2003
  #37
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
eric wrote: "On that latest session that I described, I discovered some handy ProTools techniques that made the process speedy and fun. With some coaxing, I could be enticed to share those techniques with the class."

do tell

cheers
max

ps btw, the process isn't as clearcut as dave paints it out to be

this is my experience as artist-producer

rule no 1: there are no rules

rule no 2: if it sounds good, don't mess with it, if it doesn't sound good, mess with it

for me the process is continuous, i sing so that each take can be the one, but if it ain't, i'll sing the next take, knowing that the chorus sucked, and concentrate on that, and when i feel i've got all the major sections covered, i stop

for reasons mentioned above, i like to stick to comping sections, but horses for courses (i've also comped vowels)

i really love comping phrases of lead guitar, creating lines that would be physically impossible to play in real life ( i agree with eric, sometimes, the contrast is just what the song doctor ordered)

everything you do as a producer or engineer, imo, has to serve the song, and not the ego, or the habit, or the wallet
Old 9th February 2003
  #38
Lives for gear
 
Steve Smith's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by maxim

i really love comping phrases of lead guitar, creating lines that would be physically impossible to play in real life
here is where I become a hypocryte.. (sp?) for some reason, and I am not a guitar player, I have a real hard time comping stuff together that would be impossible to play.. for one, it just doesnt sound right to me at the time, and , I allways feel some sort of empthay for the kid sitting at home trying to figure this **** out...
Weird, since I never have these sort of hangups with drums, bass, even vocals......
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