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Another Monitor Thread
Old 21st January 2003
  #31
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Jules's Avatar
Hear hear!
Old 21st January 2003
  #32
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dave-G's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Jules
I got treated like a leper at the K&H stand last NYC AES. The looked me up and down, scrached their heads, begrudgingly got to their feet and gave the "I've never heard of you" vibe that only A-holes give out at trade fairs where they are SUPPOSED to meet folks they have never met before..
Huh? Really? As far as I know there was no K+H stand at the last New York AES show. They've pretty much ignored American tradeshows and American advertising. I'll ask the US importer about this, but are you sure it was K+H?

-dave

ps: and I thought it was M+K's that Henchman uses. Maybe they were the A-holes?
Old 21st January 2003
  #33
Gear Guru
 
thethrillfactor's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by thethrillfactor
We just got in the Sequerra MK 7.7 passive monitors(www.sequerra.com).

They are only $1100( if you speak to Dick himself you maybe able to get them cheaper).

They look like a real contender in this category. Dick Sequerra is a legend in the audiophile business. He is concentrating only on Pro Audio products now. He is making a pre and a ribbon microphone(which are getting rave reviews everywhere).

I'll post some of my findings after I push them tonite.
Ok I kicked the tires and I walked away with mixed reactions.

One positive about them is that if your mixes suck, they are very truthful or unforgiving.

One drawback is that every CD I tried sucked( these were some major releases that sounded pretty good on other sysytems).

So I was a little confused. Also the mids were a tad smeared(even though they claim to be flat +/- 3db from 65hz up to 20khz). They are not huge sounding at all(which could be a good thing or bad depending on preference). The other thing I wasn't to hip on was a tweeter balance knob on the back(settings from minimum to maximum). I wasn't sure where flat truly was(my partner and i debated all night about it).

For the price they are not bad(retail is $1100 for the pair,used can be had for $800). Still I think there are others I would choose over these as my main nearfields(my partner by the way thinks he will keep them. That shows you how speakers are a very personal thing).

I think if you call Dick he will send you a pair for a trial.

Now back to our show.
Old 21st January 2003
  #34
Gear Guru
 
thethrillfactor's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by sonic dogg
and not one vote for genelec....must have become passe in the last year....most of the mastering houses use them...or they did till recently.....heck...ALL of the monitors mentioned sound like gawd.....for me the most important thing is fatigue...if you spend hours listening to mixes at least get something that doesnt wear you out......
Which mastering houses are these?

I doubt they use them as a main monitor, more like a refernce check(similar to having NS10's). A lot of engineers know them, so they can judge sometimes what things are sounding like at the mastering house after some changes.

Also because they "hype" the music so much like a lot of the newer speakers, you can use it as a real world test.

Which monitors do you personally like?
Old 21st January 2003
  #35
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sonic dogg's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Thrill, i have a small home studio and its all one big room...a very nice room but still one room...so i dont mix in a large space...most of my mixing is done as near-field...which is just fine as i never go over or around the abilties and limitations of my area...i have a set of genelec 1029's w/ the 1081 sub...my 'other' pair on the 'bridge is a set of cerwin-vega model 3's which right now i'm powering with an old h.h.scott amp...my regular amp which is a custom built class a tube guy with about 20 watts per side is being rebuilt.....i will say that even though a lot of people lately seem to judge the genelec's to be 'hyped'...i've never found another system to play my mixes on that they didnt translate absolutely perfectly to...now you may say, oh sure, some small time wanna-be engineer producer who doesnt know squat...i may have no budget to speak of but i have something you cant buy and doesn t come as an add-on to any gear...and thats a great ear and the talent to use it properly......i have heard the large genelecs in a quality studio setting and was very impressed by the ease at which you could derive a basic mix and the great separation of tones...i've worked on both urie's and westlakes in my other life....i do also like the adms...dont know what model but like i said earlier they all sound so great.......
Old 21st January 2003
  #36
Founder
 
Jules's Avatar
Whoops!

M&K i think....

and I thought it was M+K's that Henchman uses. Maybe they were the A-holes?

Sorry!

The brand that do a model with 3 x tiny speakers down the sides...

They only wanted to deal with the aligator shirt & loafer crowd.....
Old 2nd March 2004
  #37
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flexoffset's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Jules
Funny thing is, talking to Klaus the designer / owner of ADAM, he said the LAST thing likely to blow up on ADAM speakers is the tweeters!
ummmm.
What did he mention as being the first thing that is supposed to blow up on them?
Old 2nd March 2004
  #38
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James Lehmann's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I'm surprised no-one has mentioned the PMC TB2.

I think it's just that PMC seem to have a low profile in the USA, but I can assure you over here in Europe they are a serious monitor manufacturer found in some high-end studios, both for mastering and tracking.

We picked up a pair of passive TB2's for around €1000, so maybe you could swing the actives for around twice that - these feature built-in Bryston amps! I wrote my own humble User Review of the TB2's for the Sound On Sound website here in which, among other things I compare them to the Quested VH2108. Our are somewhat under-powered with a C-Audio RA501, but they still sound great until I can upgrade the amp.

You can build a whole TB2 5:1 system too, there's a bespoke centre channel and matched sub-woofer.

I find the PMC sound to be very warm and musical, but not at the expense of accuracy - I get similar comments right away from clients. (TB2's are equally at home in Hi-Fi systems too.) My local mastering studio has a massive Bryston/PMC system and it's rewarding when I take mixes done on the TB2's there to hear a similar 'quality' of sound with no major mistakes or surprises.

I would definitely recommend trying to get a PMC demo somewhere on your travels!
Old 2nd March 2004
  #39
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Clueless's Avatar
I'm glad to see an opinion about PMC. I'm narrowing down the set of monitors I plan to audition for my studio. My studio is small (about 2000 cu ft), and has a folded ceiling (5.5' on the sides, 45degree slope to 9' peak that's 5' wide). I've got lots of Auralex on the walls. I've also got a nearly 1:1 ratio of length to width (though the ceiling makes the room not symmetrical in 3d space).

I'm looking to step up from Mackie 624s, which don't have near enough bass for good translation in my middle-of-the-room position, and the 3 likely speakers to audition will be, for reasons of size, ADAM 2.5s, PMC AML-1s, and perhaps the Earthworks 6.2.

I want the most honest bass that can be fit in the smallest possible enclosure, which seems to favor the AML-1s (spec down to the low 30s, but reviews say really down to about 40 Hz). If I'm overlooking a candidate, please inform!

I'm also thinking about the PMC GB1 because it has the same footprint (just about) as the AML-1, and I'd need tall stands for the AML-1s anyway. The GB-1s seem slightly better spec'd (down to 25 Hz) and why buy a stand when one can put good volume to use? Any thoughts on "small" tower speakers as nearfields towering over a console?
Old 3rd March 2004
  #40
More cowbell!
 
natpub's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Whatever happened to the "Barefoot" monitors guy? Those looked like they were pretty happening.



K


[edit] these ones:

http://barefootsound.com/
Old 3rd March 2004
  #41
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Clueless's Avatar
BTW, I think the Barefoot monitors are tres cool, it's just that their footprint is larger than I want (assuming something smaller will fit the bill)
Old 3rd March 2004
  #42
gem
Gear Maniac
 
gem's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
has anyone worked with pmc monitors?
and also genelecs 1032 is a monitor that should be considered.
Old 4th March 2004
  #43
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Roland's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by gem
has anyone worked with pmc monitors?
and also genelecs 1032 is a monitor that should be considered.
I've had a pair of LB1's for several years. Not perfect, and there is a limit to how load you can drive them due to the fact their bass drivers are only 4".

More recently I have been on the hunt for monitors again. I audtioned the SA3's (Adams). I can undestand why people refer to them as good monitors, but they were congested in the lower mid (in spite of trying them every which way for mounting) imaging is a little "strange" on them and they do sound like they have a peak around the crossover point (I suspect a slight integration problem).

I don't like Genlecs personally, I also had the PMC ALM1's. These speakers have been raved about, but I found them dissapointing. They don't seem to publish any response graphs from PMC themselves, but I found one on the web, and it supported my opinion that they were "small" sounding with a peak around 3.5 khz.

Another option I was looking at were the ATC SCM20A's. These are good with good depth. They are a little short in the bass and the mid sounds a little forward for my ears.

In the end I have bought a 5.1 surround set up of the LB1's with a sub and bryston amps. I have to say on the balance still better than anything else I tried. Big sound for such small speakers. The TB2's are good too, though not quite the same extension as the LB1's (they do go a little louder) and they are a little edgier in the mid around 3.5, though this calms a little as they "work in".

As for the dynaudio's I have no experience with the models mentioned. I need another surround set up and I plan to audition the new JBL LSR6328's which I have heard good things about. They are worth checking out on specification only. Flat +1.5db - -1.00db across most of the audio range, very low distortion and good phase response. When I get a chance to audition those I will post about my experiences.

Hope the above is of some use to you!

Regards to all


Roland
Old 4th March 2004
  #44
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heinz's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Roland
I also had the PMC ALM1's. These speakers have been raved about, but I found them dissapointing. They don't seem to publish any response graphs from PMC themselves, but I found one on the web, and it supported my opinion that they were "small" sounding with a peak around 3.5 khz.
Wow my experience has been different, talking about this graph right?




I have found them to be very sensitive to the room, and one needs to spend some time with the HF/LF controls to dial them in... but small?? Man these things sound huge in my room. Goes to show how individual this type of decision really is. IMO the aml-1's are completely dope.
Old 4th March 2004
  #45
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matucha's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
I found 2k-6k "fires" are caused by a surface reflection. Moving a bit backwards away from the surface works for me.
Old 4th March 2004
  #46
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Roland's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by heinz
Wow my experience has been different, talking about this graph right?




I have found them to be very sensitive to the room, and one needs to spend some time with the HF/LF controls to dial them in... but small?? Man these things sound huge in my room. Goes to show how individual this type of decision really is. IMO the pml-1's are completely dope.
Yes thats the graph!

Now look at it closely. The bass response rolls off at 6db an octave below 70hz, hardly very extended, hmm? And now look at the peak around 3k, only a slight rise about 2 db? But look at the troughs either side peak to peak there is nearly 6db of difference from 2k to 3k and back down at 4k. Over 10k the response drops off at nearly 4db an octave! It is often relative levels that we hear best as we have something to reference against. For example a speaker with a gently rising response will probably exhibit less "nasties" as there are no close changes to each other for your ear to reference.

This in IMHO not a great response graph. Go to the JBL website and look at the LSR 6328 response curve. Now that is nearly text book.

The roll off above 10khz and below 70hz are in my opinion why they sound "small" and contained. The 3khz peak is very obvious to hear, particularly if you listen to orchestral strings, and vocals sound very edgy. The opinion on the ALM1's was not just mine, but that of a very good musician friend of mine and another very experienced engineer both of whom have great ears. I was also able to AB them against the LB1's and I'm afraid there was no competition, not that this particularly suprises me, the LB1's have a reputation for being a "sleeper".


Regards



Roland
Old 4th March 2004
  #47
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heinz's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Roland
This in IMHO not a great response graph. Go to the JBL website and look at the LSR 6328 response curve. Now that is nearly text book.
I appreciate what you are saying here, I guess I see a mfr's graph as being a data point. Just as you say you have friends who are not high on them, there are many who are. It's all about what works for me in translating a mix well, and hearing the details in which case I've been happy with the performance of these speakers.
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