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Do I need a new mic pre or a new mic first??
Old 28th December 2002
  #1
no ssl yet πŸŽ™οΈ
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Do I need a new mic pre or a new mic first??

In my sessions (Rnb, Hip Hop) I find I'm only micing either vocals or the ocassional acoustic guitar(Thus far anyway)

My only pres are the mackie 8 bus and Bellari RP220

I'm on a very strict budget that will allow for something like a vintech 1272 (of course I'd like to have better but the vitech would allow a bit of neve sound as an option when I move up for more pres)

MY ONLY MICs are a TLM 103 and a SM58(that's usually loaned out for live)

Would I get more mileage moving to maybe

AT4060 or something in it's price range but forsakeing the new pre

Or should I stay 103 and get a pre amp like vintech (or better if I go with a mono pre in the same range like the Universal audio M610 or something
Old 28th December 2002
  #2
Lives for gear
 
e-cue's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Mic pre all the way. I use the 103 at a bunch of project studios around town and notice better results with different pre's.
If you want to walk your way up on a budget, I'd suggest a Sytek MPX-4Aii. Get the Brown Burr mod on 2 channels, which I prefer on female vocals over the Neve stuff almost all the time. Bam. 4 Channels of kick ass mic pre for under $900. These have a lot of gain so if you plan on buying a ribbon mic in the future, they will come in handy. The Neotek mic max has more bells and whistles but is harder to find and more expensive considering it's 2 channels.
I really don't think you can go too wrong with one of the Neve knock off's either. I've always got great results with a 1073 (or copy) into an LA-2A. A very simple chain that is easy to get good results with. What else do you plan on putting in your chain? (Compression and EQ's-wise, if anything)
Old 28th December 2002
  #3
Gear Guru
 
NathanEldred's Avatar
 
7 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
It's all about keeping the pieces in your signal path on the same general level of quality. A more expensive microphone and a Bellari does not make sense to me...but a TLM103 and a Vintech does make sense and are actually quite complimetary to each other. You can always move up in quality and features from there, but that combo will be quite good IMO, but your ears may tell you something different than mine. Best Of Luck.
Old 28th December 2002
  #4
Gear Guru
 
thethrillfactor's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by e-cue
Mic pre all the way. I use the 103 at a bunch of project studios around town and notice better results with different pre's.
If you want to walk your way up on a budget, I'd suggest a Sytek MPX-4Aii. Get the Brown Burr mod on 2 channels, which I prefer on female vocals over the Neve stuff almost all the time. Bam. 4 Channels of kick ass mic pre for under $900. These have a lot of gain so if you plan on buying a ribbon mic in the future, they will come in handy. The Neotek mic max has more bells and whistles but is harder to find and more expensive considering it's 2 channels.
I really don't think you can go too wrong with one of the Neve knock off's either. I've always got great results with a 1073 (or copy) into an LA-2A. A very simple chain that is easy to get good results with. What else do you plan on putting in your chain? (Compression and EQ's-wise, if anything)
Hi E,

So you like the 1073 into an LA2A huh?

Too me this was always a little too dark(I guess I am thinking with a U47). Maybe on more modern mics(i guess the transformerless ones) this works better.

No SSL,

A good vocal mic is expensive. It will probably throw your budget for out of whack. I would suggest start saving for one though, because the moment you start working with excellent RnB singers(and they can be really picky) you are going to miss it.

I agree with E, right now a nice pre with an EQ(if you are going to go with the 103) is the ticket. That's what made the U87 back in the day so popular(what the 103 is derived from). That you wanted to EQ the sh*t out of it and it wouldn't distort(like the 414ULS). Another mid price vocal mic which I like and it loves Neve/Neve like pres is the 414EB with the C12 capsule. I think if you look hard you can probably find one for the same price as a 4060. It handles radical vocal EQing well.
Old 28th December 2002
  #5
no ssl yet πŸŽ™οΈ
Guest
Right now on my budget I'm thinking

TLM103--Vintech Pre---Distressor---NTI EQ or the manley pultec (but mainly NTI)

I don't usually EQ my stereo bus until after I have recorded all my vocas and comped my BG vocals so I'm thinking of using the NTI for all 3

1 front vocal
2 BG vox
3 Stereo Mix

May try the vintech on the back end also. I'm thinking of bussing a few channels via adat XT 20 to my mackie board and trying it on summing
If I like it, I will take the Mackie mix back into protools Via Cranesong Hedd so I may go

Mackie 8bus (not much gain)---Vintech (or other pre)---Cranesong HEDD
Old 28th December 2002
  #6
Gear Guru
 
thethrillfactor's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by no ssl yet
Right now on my budget I'm thinking

TLM103--Vintech Pre---Distressor---NTI EQ or the manley pultec (but mainly NTI)

I don't usually EQ my stereo bus until after I have recorded all my vocas and comped my BG vocals so I'm thinking of using the NTI for all 3

1 front vocal
2 BG vox
3 Stereo Mix

May try the vintech on the back end also. I'm thinking of bussing a few channels via adat XT 20 to my mackie board and trying it on summing
If I like it, I will take the Mackie mix back into protools Via Cranesong Hedd so I may go

Mackie 8bus (not much gain)---Vintech (or other pre)---Cranesong HEDD
Is this the original NTI EQ?

I know Dave Reitzas swears by these things. The only thing I don't think he records vocals with a 103(an already bright mic).

I would say you are going to have to feel it out. Normally you are correct, you are not looking to EQ voxes out of the box(except for a little roll off on the lows) and maybe a little air(but that's normally on a U47 or a ribbon mic).

The NTI is not the thickest sounding EQ, but it works sometimes. I don't know which Manley pultec you have(some are thinner than others). So you will have to play it by ear.
Old 28th December 2002
  #7
Lives for gear
 
e-cue's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by thethrillfactor
Is this the original NTI EQ?

I know Dave Reitzas swears by these things. The only thing I don't think he records vocals with a 103(an already bright mic).

I would say you are going to have to feel it out. Normally you are correct, you are not looking to EQ voxes out of the box(except for a little roll off on the lows) and maybe a little air(but that's normally on a U47 or a ribbon mic).

The NTI is not the thickest sounding EQ, but it works sometimes. I don't know which Manley pultec you have(some are thinner than others). So you will have to play it by ear.
Reitzas makes the air band on those things scream (and the trunk full of lava lamps), at least when mixing. The NTI is all the eq you need for R&B vocal if you have a decent mic, with I think the 103 is. I used the EQ3D, usually just the air band, for female R&B ish. With the 103, I usually move the pop filter a little closer to the mic, get a slight proxmity effect, and roll the low end up to where it sounds nicely. Maybe a slight boost at 300/400 Htz to give the females some girth, but the Prox Effect usually gives me this just fine on the 103, so lately my NTI mic pre comes with me to gigs, which has an air band built in.
Old 28th December 2002
  #8
Lives for gear
 
e-cue's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by thethrillfactor
Hi E,

So you like the 1073 into an LA2A huh?

Too me this was always a little too dark(I guess I am thinking with a U47
Naw, this IS dark. My sonics are dark by nature. I'm also not afraid of disortion at all. The only thing that got me away from this chain is I didn't like the 1073/Neve eq's on my vocal tracks. Too much wack sounded phase shiftness that took away from my vocal's aura. I usually want my vocals to sound like the vocalist is singing in front of me. When I use this chain (1073->La2) I use the C12 a lot (a brighter mic) which plays a nice bright/dark tug of war that I like. Of course, depends on the vocalist.

Okay, I'm missing this football game.
Old 28th December 2002
  #9
no ssl yet πŸŽ™οΈ
Guest
I have the original NTI EQ3 and not the 3"D"

and My manley is the stereo pultec EQp1-a Limited edition

If I can stretch my budget a bit I will go for the Tubetech comp along with the distressor

I'll use the distressor for trackin kick/snr (along with my dbx 160xt)
and also for BASS

and the TubeTech will be dedicated to vocals
Old 29th December 2002
  #10
Gear Guru
 
thethrillfactor's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by e-cue
Naw, this IS dark. My sonics are dark by nature. I'm also not afraid of disortion at all. The only thing that got me away from this chain is I didn't like the 1073/Neve eq's on my vocal tracks. Too much wack sounded phase shiftness that took away from my vocal's aura. I usually want my vocals to sound like the vocalist is singing in front of me. When I use this chain (1073->La2) I use the C12 a lot (a brighter mic) which plays a nice bright/dark tug of war that I like. Of course, depends on the vocalist.

Okay, I'm missing this football game.
Hey E,

Giants just won.

Lets hope the Jets win tomorrow too.(More important to me).

I got ya. This makes much more sense.

By the way, what chain do you prefer on a U47?

I've never really found one that I liked consistently over all. I am constantly swtching mic pre's. On the 1073 I sometimes add highs, but that's it. I had the EQ3(with the micpre) a long time ago, but sometimes it would make the vocal too thin.

For air, I am actually trying right now the Millenia Media EQ. Its not really the greatest on the lows and mids, but in the Air freqs its pretty smooth. The other EQ i dig is the Sontec. I can poor on the highs and it doesn't get peaky.

Peace and lets go J..E..T..S!!! Jets,Jets,Jets!!!

heh
Old 29th December 2002
  #11
Lives for gear
 
e-cue's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by thethrillfactor
Hey E,

Giants just won.

Lets hope the Jets win tomorrow too.(More important to me).

I got ya. This makes much more sense.

By the way, what chain do you prefer on a U47?

I've never really found one that I liked consistently over all. I am constantly swtching mic pre's. On the 1073 I sometimes add highs, but that's it. I had the EQ3(with the micpre) a long time ago, but sometimes it would make the vocal too thin.

Peace and lets go J..E..T..S!!! Jets,Jets,Jets!!!

heh
When you say "U47", am I correct to assume you mean the tube version (without any Brett A, SP, etc Mod's)? They all sound different to me, and I keep a log of serial #'s in town from studio to studio, and rental company's as to which are my fav's (no, you can't have a copy). Many of them would sound good if they didn't buzz too much noise out of them. I really like the A design's MP-2 mic pre unit. This is my 'favor of the month' pre. It's the cleanest sounding tube mic pre I think I've ever heard. It blows me away everytime. My client's actually comment on how much they like it.
The prob with adding highs on the 1073, for me at least, is it makes things sound like they have more top end, but at the same time it kind of takes away from the vocal. Do you know what I mean? If not, boast, say 4 db on one eq, and a/b it to the neve. The pre itself I dig from the 1073/(etc) but the eq's I have found (even though for years I thought they were the absolute shiznit) others beat them out with less funky phase shift.
The EQ3D limits what I can do, when the EQ3 has more flexibility.

As for the JETS. Sure, I'll root for them. Doesn't really matter as the Tampa Bay Bucs are going to take it all the way. (LA still doesn't have a football team, so we are all but transplants...)
Old 29th December 2002
  #12
no ssl yet πŸŽ™οΈ
Guest
Hey E and Thrill

Save this post.

2004 Is all SAINTS YEAR.

Of course this is hard to say after losing to the Bengals

But the coaching staff was really on a 2 year plan to fix what Mike Dika ****ed up for Rickey Williams

Next year we keep a playoff Caliber team from this year
and add 5 draft picks and 2mill in salary cap money
2 1st rounds
1 3rd
2 2nd rounds

and All we really need are fast linebackers to stop the run (we gave up probowlers last year to sqeeze out some cap money in a 2 year plan)

REAL cornerbacks and a fullback along with maybe some moves on offensive line.

Aaron Brooks is not as good as his cousin Vick but Aaron is better than 80% of the league. (We just need some kind of line to give him time)

Hey we weren't really expecting to go as far as we did this year!

I predict the Saints superbowl champs next year. If you think about it whoever does well in the draft ends up winning the big dance at this stage of the NFL the last few years

They will have a better chance next year than they ever had in my lifetime. If they don't win I'm wearing my Steelers Jersey from 78' again
Old 29th December 2002
  #13
Lives for gear
 
5down1up's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
pick up a good pre , i picked up a 9098 , its stereo , has d.i.s a ms decoder , a nice sound and its real easy to work with .

if you just have the micpres your saying , you will be more then suprised how your mics & synths can sound .
running a virus through a v72 is another world of sound .

adding another 9098 and another flavoured pre is on top of my wishlist .

thrill & ecue , do you know something about the " big by amek " console sound ??? lots of nice features and still payable ( doesnt happen that often ) !!! my mackie will die sooner or later , maybe the big is a step in front ( i bet it is ) in fact of functionality and sound . and it has virtual dynamics as well . 44 channels are something like 10000 $$$ . its kinda hard getting a 44 channel setup with eqs & dynamics for like 10ks , isnt it ???
Old 29th December 2002
  #14
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by e-cue
a Sytek MPX-4Aii.. These have a lot of gain so if you plan on buying a ribbon mic in the future, they will come in handy.
it wont get my B&O BM5 anywhere near enough gain as drum overheads... pissin me off, thats with the gain ALL the way up. but damn quiet even running to 11.
Old 29th December 2002
  #15
Gear Guru
 
thethrillfactor's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by 5down1up
pick up a good pre , i picked up a 9098 , its stereo , has d.i.s a ms decoder , a nice sound and its real easy to work with .

if you just have the micpres your saying , you will be more then suprised how your mics & synths can sound .
running a virus through a v72 is another world of sound .

adding another 9098 and another flavoured pre is on top of my wishlist .

thrill & ecue , do you know something about the " big by amek " console sound ??? lots of nice features and still payable ( doesnt happen that often ) !!! my mackie will die sooner or later , maybe the big is a step in front ( i bet it is ) in fact of functionality and sound . and it has virtual dynamics as well . 44 channels are something like 10000 $$$ . its kinda hard getting a 44 channel setup with eqs & dynamics for like 10ks , isnt it ???

If i were you I would avoid the BIG like the plague. It is one of the smallest sounding mixers around. The problem is that they tried to squeeze in too many things under a ceratin price. What they forgot the most was the sound.

Audio Upgrades in CA does a mod on it, but I have not heard it. There is a guy in town that had his Big modified.

If i were you and you needed all of the bells and whistles, than for a little more money you should look at the Media 51. It has the same body as the Big(this I still don't understand), but better guts under the hood. I messed around with it for a day or two and i really dug the pres/EQ's and the automation. The sound takes a little to get used to, but I am sure someone somewhere will be able to do a mod to it. A 28 channel model is around $20Kish. It is also setup to do surround(if you are interested in that kind of stuff).

For 10K maybe look around for a Mozart. I've seen some here in the states(and in England) for that price. Jay can fill you in more about it.
Old 29th December 2002
  #16
Gear Guru
 
thethrillfactor's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by e-cue
When you say "U47", am I correct to assume you mean the tube version (without any Brett A, SP, etc Mod's)? They all sound different to me, and I keep a log of serial #'s in town from studio to studio, and rental company's as to which are my fav's (no, you can't have a copy). Many of them would sound good if they didn't buzz too much noise out of them. I really like the A design's MP-2 mic pre unit. This is my 'favor of the month' pre. It's the cleanest sounding tube mic pre I think I've ever heard. It blows me away everytime. My client's actually comment on how much they like it.
The prob with adding highs on the 1073, for me at least, is it makes things sound like they have more top end, but at the same time it kind of takes away from the vocal. Do you know what I mean? If not, boast, say 4 db on one eq, and a/b it to the neve. The pre itself I dig from the 1073/(etc) but the eq's I have found (even though for years I thought they were the absolute shiznit) others beat them out with less funky phase shift.
The EQ3D limits what I can do, when the EQ3 has more flexibility.

As for the JETS. Sure, I'll root for them. Doesn't really matter as the Tampa Bay Bucs are going to take it all the way. (LA still doesn't have a football team, so we are all but transplants...)
Hey E,

Yeah i meant a plain vanilla U47.

I've given up on the rentals here in the city(they all sound ****ty). I work with some studios and artists that have one of their own. I am actually starting to consider picking one up just to keep things consistent(or maybe that E47 Elux model?). The last pre I tried which i dug was the Buzz Audio micpre(no transformer).

On the 1073, I rarely EQ my vocals with it(I use a lot instead one of my 1081's for that Neve color). I do get you on the 1073 EQ though, I think the Hi's work better on analog(tape) than on digital tracks.

TampaBay?

Brother you dissapointed me.grudge

As long as they have to play in cold weather(playoffs) they will never get to the Superbowl. tut

Sorry E, they had their chance monday night(home field)and they blew it!!!

grggt
Old 29th December 2002
  #17
Gear Guru
 
thethrillfactor's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by no ssl yet
Hey E and Thrill

Save this post.

2004 Is all SAINTS YEAR.

Of course this is hard to say after losing to the Bengals

But the coaching staff was really on a 2 year plan to fix what Mike Dika ****ed up for Rickey Williams

Next year we keep a playoff Caliber team from this year
and add 5 draft picks and 2mill in salary cap money
2 1st rounds
1 3rd
2 2nd rounds

and All we really need are fast linebackers to stop the run (we gave up probowlers last year to sqeeze out some cap money in a 2 year plan)

REAL cornerbacks and a fullback along with maybe some moves on offensive line.

Aaron Brooks is not as good as his cousin Vick but Aaron is better than 80% of the league. (We just need some kind of line to give him time)

Hey we weren't really expecting to go as far as we did this year!

I predict the Saints superbowl champs next year. If you think about it whoever does well in the draft ends up winning the big dance at this stage of the NFL the last few years

They will have a better chance next year than they ever had in my lifetime. If they don't win I'm wearing my Steelers Jersey from 78' again

This is what I like about you No SSL you dream BIG!!!

But that's all it is...a DREAM!!!

Saints and the Colts are always the big pretenders(gotta throw in Tampa Bay too...sorry E).

They've had many chances, but they always come up small.

Hey No SSL,

I love New Orleans.

Great women,food,music,parties and of course Trent Reznor/Nothing Studios.

But brother that's it!!! The Saints are as lukewarm as the weather down there sometimes!!

Just keep hosting the SuperBowl its something you guys are great at...cause that's as close as you are going to get!!!heh
Old 29th December 2002
  #18
no ssl yet πŸŽ™οΈ
Guest
THRILL you forget almost the entire football team was fired last year. You have to expect some type of rebuiding, And New Orleans has never had offensive weapons till now in my life time. (Probably the first time sending a back and a reciever to the pro bowl as well)

Hell look at last years bowl did you expect that outcome all season??/

(Shyt At least we have a hoop team and good Gumbo)

Stranger things have happened. Who would have thought Master P would make $200 Million
Old 29th December 2002
  #19
Lives for gear
 
e-cue's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by 5down1up

thrill & ecue , do you know something about the " big by amek " console sound ??? lots of nice features and still payable ( doesnt happen that often ) !!! my mackie will die sooner or later , maybe the big is a step in front ( i bet it is ) in fact of functionality and sound . and it has virtual dynamics as well . 44 channels are something like 10000 $$$ . its kinda hard getting a 44 channel setup with eqs & dynamics for like 10ks , isnt it ???
No. I do not know anything about it. As stated on other posts, I don't like most amek products on urban music.


Sincerely,
Warren Sapp
Old 29th December 2002
  #20
no ssl yet πŸŽ™οΈ
Guest
I think I'm goona have to run with the E man on this one.

TAMPABay will probably Go ALL the Way
Old 29th December 2002
  #21
Gear Guru
 
thethrillfactor's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by no ssl yet
I think I'm goona have to run with the E man on this one.

TAMPABay will probably Go ALL the Way

This sounds like NFC Southern bias. grudge

Whatever!!!

Hey my team has to make it to the playoffs first...so i better shut up now.

Peace.
Old 29th December 2002
  #22
Lives for gear
 
e-cue's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Do I smell a bet comming on?
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