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oVERHEADS,Do you compress? What pres?
Old 23rd February 2003
  #31
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Bob Olhsson
I've always stuck with KM-84s or U-67s because they are dark and smooth enough that I can choose an appropriate high frequency to boost that will really compliment the rest of the tracks. Brighter overheads lock me into a particular sound even though they sound better without any eq than the Neumanns do. Neumanns also mix really nicely with SM-57s.

Hey Bob, how do the km184s differ from the 84's?
I've been using the km184's but for me no matter the preamp they seem to be a little too bright, so the 84's are darker then?
Thanks
daniel
Old 23rd February 2003
  #32
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groundcontrol's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Darker, fuller and more natural sounding. Pretty more musical sounding to me. I'd love to change my 184's for some 84's.
Old 23rd February 2003
  #33
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I've never had a chance to compare myself but the curve on the spec sheet looks brighter and that's what people tell me they hear.
Old 23rd February 2003
  #34
TML
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I've been using 184's for awhile. Was using 414's but I thought they captured too much in my small drum room. Plus allot of the bands like this new ******** compressed in your face close miced..no air..sound....."my last 20 punk baby band ep's". I'm putting the 184's in API 312's then into a SSL 384. They are dark...usually add some hi's when dumping from tape to PT. The SSL helps to excite the sound and give the snr sone attack. The 184's are hot...got to be careful with the 312's. Thinking about the Royer or a pair of 451's
Any opinions? I also use a pair of Daking eq's from analogue to PT for eq. I like the Daking's. But...this week I put the overs through 1073 from tape to digital. I was like...........F%$k that sounds great....smooth....harshness gone....just hi-passin' to 150hz and adding a couple db up top. Allot of people seem to dig the Daking.....I'm wondering if it's ebay time? Any feedback?
Tim
Old 23rd February 2003
  #35
Jax
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🎧 15 years
I usually have my km184's up as drum overheads. If I want a more pronounced bottom and top end, they go through a Vintech 1272. If I want a very balanced sound, Great River MP-2 or Flamingo. I'll switch in both FAT and IRON on the Flamingo if I want some character, and overdrive the preamp just enough to make the color stick out. If I want a smooth, peaceful kind of sound I put them through the Manley Dual 40dB. The tubes can be overdriven nicely by cranking the gain switch all the way and lowering the input knob, which gets sort of a silky breathing sound going.

For compression if I want more of the silky sound, I'll put it through the Manley V-Mu, so it's grabbing about 1-3 gain reduction at most, attack in the medium to a little faster range, release fast. Threshold always all the way open. If the OH sound needs some balls, it'll go through either my Distressors or the Drawmer 1969. The Distressor usually is set to Type 2 distortion, HP filter, either 2:1 or 4:1, grabbing about 4-7 db, attack @ 2-4, release usually very fast. If I'm using the Drawmer for the OH's, the BIG switch is a must, followed by the second fastest attack setting and the fastest release. I'll use an RNC if the OH's just need to be clean, similar settings to the rest here + SuperNice button. RNC's can also make some cool distortion if you dial in the attack too fast and don't turn on SuperNice. All the settings/gear above is generally speaking, but since I'm recording mid to faster tempo rock usually, this is often where things are set. "YMMV"

I almost never use any eq on drum OH's. If I do, it'll be just a HP filter so everything from 100 or 80hz down is outta there. There is rarely any mud in the OH's the way I record them, so I don't need to take that out. I'm getting the right amount of brightness from the mic positioning and the 184's are fairly bright already.

rollz

Oh yeah, for positioning, I like them about 6-8 feet out from the front and middle of the outer bass drum head, around 12-15 feet apart, and about 6 feet up. Pointing down just over the top of the highest cymbals (note: this is for a large kit - 6 toms, two crashes, ride, hats, kik, snare - I decrease the width and distance if the kit is smaller). They're aimed to pick up half of the kit per mic respectively, and I get a very wide image, which can be panned inward if it's too wide in the mix, while retaining a good spectrum of the kit. The angle is around 35-45 degrees. I get a good blend of room and OH from this distance/height, so I don't need room mics except for one out in front of the BD. That mic is either a U87 for an edgy sound, or a CAD VX-2 for a huge, open sound. 4050 for a more balanced sound.

Hope this helps!
Old 23rd February 2003
  #36
Jax
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🎧 15 years
I was digging the recorderman 3 mic tehcnique for awhile, but I like what I do above more. The 3 mic thing still works for some stuff, and it's hard to beat the phase relationship with it.
Old 25th February 2003
  #37
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John Cafarella's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jules
[B]Royer SF12 stereo ribbon

Jules, I've just bought a B&O BM6 which a mono "grandaddy" of the SF12.

I did a quick setup with it into the RNP on OH's , and was thought it sounded pretty damn good.

Curiously, I thought it sounded as if there was already some compression on, enough to make me want to check the inserts.

Have you noticed this?

John
Old 25th February 2003
  #38
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
I've been using an SF-12 into an modified Millinea Medea HV-3 (its got the factory DC input/ribbon mic mod). But I complement this with either a pair of KM-184's or sometimes a pair of Earthworks QTC1 omnis (the pair that I don't use then becomes the room mics).

I like adding the KM-184's to the ribbon. I use the ribbons as the main sound and then use the 184's to dial in as much more brightness as you need. In this case - it's ok that the 184's are brighter, because that's what I'm looking for from them.
Old 25th February 2003
  #39
Gear Addict
 
🎧 15 years
Africk said :
Quote:
neu 147 directly above the kick drum pedal, aimed a little towards the snare, about 3' above the top of the kick's rim. into a summit tpa-200
Could you be more specific as to the directions?
I gather it is like a low overhead pointing downwards (but slightly towards the snare). I would be worried about it getting hit in this location.
Old 25th February 2003
  #40
Founder
 
Jules's Avatar
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jules
[B]Royer SF12 stereo ribbon

Jules, I've just bought a B&O BM6 which a mono "grandaddy" of the SF12.

I did a quick setup with it into the RNP on OH's , and was thought it sounded pretty damn good.

Curiously, I thought it sounded as if there was already some compression on, enough to make me want to check the inserts.

Have you noticed this?"

Hmmm... I didnt knotice "compression sound" - just a nice 'clanking metalwork' non-hissing HF responce that takes EQ well - LATER!

I dunno, I've been getting into flat recording of late.. I try to not use EQ much, compression can bite you on the ass as well, with too much HiHat & not enough big cymbals...

Old 28th February 2003
  #41
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barforama's Avatar
 
21 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
mics: KM184's, AT4051's or C451/CK1's

pre's: 1969, Trident A-range - 100Hz highpass

comp (if any): a touch of 1969 (2dB max!tutt )

I place the overheads to get most smack/crack from the snare. One somewhere over the ride and one over the snare/hh. Usually 2-3 feet above the set.

Just got my Great River MP-2NV.heh I'll try that on OH sometime soon.
Old 28th February 2003
  #42
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Fibes's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
My go to combo is:

Neumann SM-2 into a Phoenix Audio GTQ-2 (with a touch of top end to taste) and a light touch of Trakker action.

Mixdown is a whole new world. BF Fairchild for some of it's sweet top and some "swell" or a mult nuked.
Old 3rd March 2003
  #43
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Yannick's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
If you want a very natural sound, try an MS stereo setup.
Somebody overhere mentioned Sennheiser MKH40, well I nearly always use a MKH40/MKH30 (figure of eight) MS stereo setup.
For me this is the most purist coincident technique, I just put them into my Gracedesign 801R preamp and use my Soundscape32 MS matrix to spread the kit completely open, or narrow it, or totate/skew it more to the right or left. Options...
Compression (even 1dB) on the overhead sounds unacceptable almost every time. Normally (good drummer with a good kit) I also use no EQ, I move the overhead around.
I only compress the BD and snare lightly.
I sometimes add a hihat mic, but most of the time I get by with 4 mics (for jazz).

Yannick
Old 3rd March 2003
  #44
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davemc's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
[QUOTE]Originally posted by John Cafarella
[B]
Quote:
Originally posted by Jules
Royer SF12 stereo ribbon

Jules, I've just bought a B&O BM6 which a mono "grandaddy" of the SF12.

I did a quick setup with it into the RNP on OH's , and was thought it sounded pretty damn good.

Curiously, I thought it sounded as if there was already some compression on, enough to make me want to check the inserts.

Have you noticed this?

John
Hey John,

I just got a SF12 and I am local if you want to compare toys.

Bye Dave
Old 3rd March 2003
  #45
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studjo's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I hardly compress the OH to tape. But in mix mode they get quite a bit of Urie1178 or another comp.
I'm always checking things out with the OH mics. I tried M/S thing and it's really cool for an accoustic picture of the set - for Jazz/classical things. The next thing is X/Y also very useful but sometimes the kid is too wide for capturing everything. At the moment I do ordinary A/B for modern tracks. I try to keep the snare equidistant (sp) from the mics.
The pre is mostly the desk pre. I'm a little bit short on the pre list. The Dakings worked fine, when I used them. But the D&R Desk pre is just a nice pre so I use it all the time

Jo
Old 3rd March 2003
  #46
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mixer's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
i use matched km184s in xy config...over the center of the set...also use at 4050 in omni mode in front for ambience...i generally just use the ssl pre - amps in the console..no compression ...i roll off around 60hz on the overheads. of course this changes depending on the kit and the drummer..and the type of music.
Old 3rd March 2003
  #47
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🎧 15 years
Lately, I've been going for a super raw type of a sound for some sort of trashy indy rock. I've been experimenting with using just one mic, an Earthworks SR-69, and have been getting some really cool results once the other instruments fill in around it. Otherwise, SF-12 for overhead, just some light limiting from the CS Spider. Looking into other options too.

Btw...

"If you want a very natural sound, try an MS stereo setup...

Yannick"

Can you tell me a bit more about this?
Old 8th May 2004
  #48
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🎧 15 years
CAD VX2/Groove Tubes GT66 in M/S or sometimes Oktava MC012's usually to A-Designs MP2 or sometimes Sytek BB.

The A Designs has a cool sizzly/airy top that sounds really cool sometimes. Especially on HH. Syteks are darker.

Drum buss compression keeps me from compressing overheads. Seems kind of redundant and never had much luck with it anyway.
Old 8th May 2004
  #49
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cdog's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
KM184-->Vintech473-->Fatso-->MOTU192

No compression.
No compression.
No compression.

Old 8th May 2004
  #50
jon
Capitol Studios Paris
 
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🎧 15 years
If the drums were tracked in a good room, and more power / hang / squish is desirable, then sometimes I find a little bit of SSL channel compression works nicely to bring that out, usually with the "link" button in.
Old 8th May 2004
  #51
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
Helios... there really are some slutz here!

If you had a choice between the following: what would you choose as overheads, and what for room mics? I'm curious if we are on the same wavelength!

Also what polar pattern if applicable?

If these don't appeal, what gear would you buy to make it appeal?

Choice of mic pres:

Chandler TG2
Manley Dual Mono
Universal Audio 2-610
Audient ASP 008

Choice of microphones

Royer R121 x 2
Audio-Technica 4050 x 2
RODE NTK x 2

There's plenty of space in the live room with good acoustics and high ceilings.

Waiting for your thoughts with interest!

Jason
Old 8th May 2004
  #52
Deleted 2ef94c5
Guest
Quote:
Originally posted by stakeoutstudios
Chandler TG2
Manley Dual Mono
Universal Audio 2-610
Audient ASP 008

Choice of microphones

Royer R121 x 2
Audio-Technica 4050 x 2
RODE NTK x 2
My first choice would be the 121s into the Manley and if that was too dark, the 121s into the UA. I like the 121s (or the m160s) on overheads because they do not get crunchy in digital. They stay naturally smooth and allow you to dial in just the right level of brightness with EQ in the mix. While the 4050 is not a hyped condenser, it works best as a distant room mic IMO.
Old 8th May 2004
  #53
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picksail's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
More recently:

AEA R84 (matched)
API 512

Compress post.
Old 8th May 2004
  #54
jon
Capitol Studios Paris
 
jon's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
For one sound, I'd try 121s, M160s, Coles or AEAs into a pair of TG2s. Ribbon mics, aggressive pres.

For another sound, a pair of 451 CK1s through a softer pre.

Or if they were available, a pair of U67s or C12s.
Old 8th May 2004
  #55
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echorec's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
This weeks session:

pair of KM-84 ---> Telefunken V672 pres ---> siemens W295b EQ, no compression
Old 8th May 2004
  #56
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🎧 15 years
Actually, come to think of it I used the R84s into the Telefunken V72s. I forgot. Sorry for the misinformation.
Old 9th May 2004
  #57
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🎧 15 years
Just for the record. I've heard a lot of engineers use great mics into great pre's and get a horrible OH sound. I've also heard a great engineer in the same room get a good sound with Octavas. For rock I think a lot of it has to do with drummer technique and picking the right cymbals for the application and room positioning.

Octava owners take heart and experiment!
Old 10th May 2004
  #58
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muziqfreek's Avatar
 
8 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
[QUOTE]Originally posted by BattleAngel
[B]....., just some light limiting from the CS Spider.

What's the limiter like on the SPider....?? Thas definitely gotta be my next purchase...how hard can u hit the channel/buss limiter b4 it sounds nasty - or does it never get to that point....??!!!

&....

Whas it like for using as a mixer....?
Old 10th May 2004
  #59
Here for the gear
 
🎧 15 years
Greetings!

I was turned on to this forum by a buddy of mine, and have been reading through some of the posts for the last couple of weeks. There are some really interesting discussions in here, and I look forward to participating from time to time. Being a drummer and engineer - this thread seemed like a good one to jump in on.

I have used the C451's, 414's, KM184's and the Audio Technica mics (the 4041's, I believe) in the past for overheads with pleasing results, but it was an engineer friend of mine who does amazing rock/pop drum recordings who hipped me to the little Oktava overheads. They sound great and really compliment the rest of the close mics on the kit with minimal EQ required.

Pre's are a pair of E series cards from an old SSL with no compression direct to disk (Pro Tools with AD-8000's). I have also used the Manley Dual Mono pre for OH with excellent results on a couple of sessions recording to a 2" machine. In mix down, I will generally throw an 1178 on the OH pair with a super light compression.

I generally like to set the OH mics relatively low (above the drummers head, roughly two feet apart) angling slightly to each side towards the hihat and ride cymbal. It is my experience that this configuration helps to maintain good stereo spread/imaging while retaining the impact and clarity.

So much depends on the drummer's talent and ability to choose musical cymbals that speak well and cover the tonal spectrum effectively, and the sound of the room. Some of the best drum sounds I ever got were in rooms that were considered crude and "untreated". I think most of us know the second we walk into a place whether the room will sing, or not.
Old 10th May 2004
  #60
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Gie-Sound's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
90% of the times I don't compress Overheads....
..if I do... It's usally a SSL bus compressor (or Smart) that ends up on the OH's.

I know some enigineers who like a 1178 for that, but I never found a sound/settings I like....
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