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Mix & mastering plan - finally!
Old 20th June 2002
  #1
Mix & mastering plan - finally!

OK I was going to post up an elaborate gear list / dilemma but managed to figure it out on my own. (the collective Gearslut spirit was with me, thanks guys!)

I capture my analog mix with my Cranesong Hedd set to 24 bit 44.1
That goes into my DAW a 24 bit master is stored
Then it gets a little 'DAW home mastering' & gets dithered to 16 bit
Sent to my masterlink (or Start Rec duplicator) for client copies..

here's the new idea...

Before I tear the mix down I click the Hedd to 96k and run that into the Masterlink and preserve a 96k unmastered mix for archive & future mastering facility use, (if it gets that far)

Bingo, my usual way, and a deluxe way!

Hey how do folks running 96k DAW's make their own CD copies?
Old 20th June 2002
  #2
Lives for gear
 
C.Lambrechts's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Re: Mix & mastering plan - finally!

Quote:
Originally posted by Jules

Hey how do folks running 96k DAW's make their own CD copies?
the 96k mix goes onto a DVD-R.
Old 29th June 2002
  #3
OK thanks, but what about 44.1 16bit ones? From a PTHD session - on the same computer..???

Old 29th June 2002
  #4
Kev
Gear Nut
 
Kev's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Jules
OK thanks, but what about 44.1 16bit ones? From a PTHD session - on the same computer..???
But that would be a, bounce to disk, if the session was 24 bit ???

With the HD up-grade still scratching at me I am thinking of a computer swap.

Late model run out or early Second Hand list,
G4 single 800 or 933 4 slot with super drive etc.... transfer my authorises etc and see if I can survive in IDE land..

anyway ,

then the 9600 gets an Mbox or 001 and I get a THING,
Appogee or CraneSong etc
enter the second computer via the sdif (Mbox - 001) through probably a very expensive peice as above.

Burn CD's for client with the 9600 and continue working on Alishad in the new G4

Does this make both good audio sense and good management sense ???

The 9600 could, at a pinch, be in another room and double as a mini edit suite ??
Old 29th June 2002
  #5
nonono!

Here I find this an ineteresting snippet from the Digi site

Corey Shay
Member
Member # 7296
posted June 27, 2002 10:44 PM ___ __ __ _ _ _ __
------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by speerchucker:
So, ALL OTHER THINGS BEING EQUAL, which evidently they are not, you would want to master -run multi-band compression and global EQ - at 96K (or 88.2)
Is this another trade-off with no easy answer?
Can I master at 96K, as long as I don't bounce to 16 bit?
What would be the exact chain of steps that I should take, assumeing that I do indeed wnat to run my mastering at 96K?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Then you would need to master in two phases if you were only using one PT rig. Import your mix into a 96k session, and do all your mastering with all the plugs you want (running at 96k). Do NOT use 16 bit dither under any circumstances in your 96k session. Lets say that the last thing in the chain of mastering plugs was the L1/L2, thats fine too, but be careful to bring your output ceiling down to -0.1 or -0.2 dB because the SRC process might cause some very slight overs to that limit. Also applying 24 bit dither on the L1/L2 is fine (and probably preferred), I would just recommend you avoid Ultra noise shaping. Then bounce your session to disk (at 24 bit) and apply the 96k to 44.1k SRC in the bounce options. Close your session. Start a new session at 44.1. Import your bounced mastered 44.1 files. Apply the 16 bit dither of your choice at the master fader and nothing else. Play your master AES out to a CD writer or bounce it to disk again at 44.1 16 bit. PQ code and burn a CD with your choice of software.
That all said, I find the best way of working is to assemble and edit all my songs together in a new PT session at the same sample rate and bit depth as the original mixes. Then master it (bounce entire assembly to one pair of dual mono files) and apply SRC (at 24 bit) and import to a new session for dithering as stated above. Bounce again at 44.1 16 bit to one stereo interleaved file. Ethernet the file to my PC and PQ code with CD Architect.
If you have an outboard asynchronous SRC and D/A converter this would be a little different. You could run your 96k master thru it in real time, and master while hearing the effects the SRC will produce on your final 44.1 master in real time. For a real mastering session this would probably be preferred.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Damn interesting IMHO

The whole thing is here and is a terrific read.

http://duc.digidesign.com/cgi-bin/ub...;f=16;t=013695

Old 29th June 2002
  #6
Kev M8

Start another thread with your dual mac questions!

Old 29th June 2002
  #7
Kev
Gear Nut
 
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Jules
Kev M8

Start another thread with your dual mac questions!
No not a question ...
This is my Mix - master plan...

Two Machines. Not a Master link.

88.1/24 PTHD ... when I get it.
Hit the analog board on a cut down of the PT mix , say 10 or 12 track of mono and stereo groups.
then to second Machine with Mbox or 001 driven by Hedd or Appogee
at 16 bit 44.1 ... then burn CD after a tweek or two.

The big question for me is once in PT at 16/44.1 and you "master"
do you bounce to disk for the final file to burn.

I do at the moment and Nika tells me there is no reason to change this bit.


A late thought,
I think you can run the Hedd at 88.1 or 96 and into PT LE vis spdf ?? Then I could too make a 96 or 88.1 master for future Mastering House if needed.
Much to think about.
Old 29th June 2002
  #8
Hmmm I can see a few potential flaws with that..

For archive & potential future mastering you would want to preserve a copy at the highest resolution.

but to roll with the plan, capturing the analog board @ 24 bit 44.1 with an external converter into a 2nd 'system' is cool..

Hey... I wonder what capturing the mix back to PT at 96 / 82 (whatever!) would be like, then IMPORTING that mix into a 96 / 82 resoultion mastering session, than sending that - undithered to a masterlink and having that do the SRC down to 44.1 16 bit..

Thing is, folks working at hi rez hold a LOT of store in their mastering EQ's etc all working at the highest rez possible..

My question - for 'own' / junior mastering, would it be cool to entrust the final SRC & dither job to the Masterlink..????

In the same direction, I have recently brought my Finalizer 96k out of retirement.. It does live SRC......

I can see extencive trials / shootouts ahead..... grudge

MY issues are wether to run sessions at 48k or not.. ????

I have already decided in future to make a point of recording a copy of each mix at 96k to Masterlink for my archives..

Old 29th June 2002
  #9
Lives for gear
 
subspace's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Kev


No not a question ...
This is my Mix - master plan...

Two Machines. Not a Master link.

88.1/24 PTHD ... when I get it.
Hit the analog board on a cut down of the PT mix , say 10 or 12 track of mono and stereo groups.
then to second Machine with Mbox or 001 driven by Hedd or Appogee
at 16 bit 44.1 ... then burn CD after a tweek or two.

The big question for me is once in PT at 16/44.1 and you "master"
do you bounce to disk for the final file to burn.

I do at the moment and Nika tells me there is no reason to change this bit.


A late thought,
I think you can run the Hedd at 88.1 or 96 and into PT LE vis spdf ?? Then I could too make a 96 or 88.1 master for future Mastering House if needed.
Much to think about.
PT LE is limited to 44.1/48k. You'd want to run a mult of your mix bus back to PT HD for archiving an 88.1/96k 24 bit version, while the other split feeds your Mbox at 44.1k/24. Don't record anything directly to 16 bit, especially if you're going to tweak it more. Just dither the final bounce down for burning.
I run a similar set-up using DP. The main rig's multi-track outputs feed a Trident and it's mix bus output is recorded on a second DAW for mastering. While mixing, the mastering DAW runs Spectrafoo, so I've got the phase scope, frequency response over time, peak and RMS metering, all active for reference. If I record multiple mixes of the same song, I'll use separate tracks so they'll be simpler to comapre and comp between later. It's nice to leave the main machine free while the second one takes care of CD copies and the like. HTH
Old 29th June 2002
  #10
Kev
Gear Nut
 
Kev's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by subspace

PT LE is limited to 44.1/48k.

Don't record anything directly to 16 bit, especially if you're going to tweak it more.

..... the mastering DAW runs Spectrafoo,

It's nice to leave the main machine free while the second one takes care of CD copies and the like.
I am expecting PT LE to go 96k ...(soon?).
I was present at an external clock test with the 001 and saw it make a 96k file. There was some header hacking but I think it could be very possibe for MOA to give 96k to the 001 and perhaps the Mbox.

Does anyone use Waves PAZ ........ should I consider Spectrafoo to replace PAZ ?

Getting my old machine into CD burning diuties was the original inspiration to think this way. Just want to keep old gear working for me.



Jules,
"MY issues are wether to run sessions at 48k or not.. ???? "

If in the past we decided that 44.1/24 for the session was the way to go the should masters be at 88.2 and not 96 for all the same SCR reasons. Will soft SCR ever be accepted?


Now you are thinking 48k .... then why not 96k for sessions ?
now I'm confused:
Old 30th June 2002
  #11
I havent upgraded to HD as of yet.

Me no have HD!

2 x Mix + rigs and an MBox

I am using vintage gear!

Old 30th June 2002
  #12
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
i cant figure out the purpose of PAZ, or spectrafoo for that matter... can someone tell me what the point of them are? i throw on PAZ for eye candy but its information doesnt really mean **** if my ears like it.

of course my vintage tube oscilliscope is SO MUCH nicer than any spectrum analyser, so much warmer and organic.
Old 30th June 2002
  #13
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by alphajerk
i cant figure out the purpose of PAZ, or spectrafoo for that matter... can someone tell me what the point of them are? i throw on PAZ for eye candy but its information doesnt really mean **** if my ears like it.

of course my vintage tube oscilliscope is SO MUCH nicer than any spectrum analyser, so much warmer and organic.
I use Foo all the time, mainly to analyze speakers/room acoustics and freq. content of low level stuff, like different flavors of dither. Don't use it much while mixing, although the spectrogragh is nice to have there as a visual perspective. I've used it to help take the guess-work out of cleaning up soggy low end before. Also, since I can't hear much over about 12k anymore, it's good to "see" that I'm not hurting people (unless they want to be hurt). The ear, of course, is the final measure...

AJ, my Macintosh freeware oscilliscope beats the crap out of your tube one, I don't care how warm and organic it is. Mine doesn't have to warm up, and it doesn't have any features you don't need, as well as not having most that you do need. In fact, it does very little. When I apply it, I can't really hear a difference. Bet you can't say that about your old "colored" valve oscilliscope.
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