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If you had 20K which Console would you buy?
Old 27th November 2002
  #1
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
If you had 20K which Console would you buy?

Hey guys and gals if you had 20 large which mixer would you buy?
I have pRo stools and I like it but I've been thinking of upgrading to more faders, either a control24 or procontrol.
Then I started thinking, damn, I'm gonna have alot of jing in protools and maybe I'd be just as well off going back tO a Paris setup and spending the Ptools moola on a nice mixer?
The question then is, what does 20k buy you for a classic analog mixer? Would I be better off going with the Sony or the new Yammy? I saw a discussion on here about the helios stuff, those are lots more$$$ and need lots of love right?
I'm having a hard time spending money just for a controller, but maybe thats the way to go, just thought I'd bounce this off you
sluts.
I do mean that with the utmost respectdfegad
Daniel
Old 27th November 2002
  #2
Gear Guru
 
Drumsound's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
In the $20k range I'd look at Trident 80 series, Neotek Elite or Elan, Sony MXP3036, MCI 500 or 600, possibly an Amek Angela or other "dead guy" series, maybe a D&R Orion. I wouldn't get a digital board, but I also don't have a digital multitrack.evileye
Old 27th November 2002
  #3
Dot
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🎧 15 years
All good recommendations from Drumsound. I guess some of it also might have to do with how much space you have. The Sony 3036 might be my pick if I had a lot of space. If space is a premium, look at the Amek Big Langley or, actuall, call Mike Stoica ( 847-277-7710 ) at Sytek/Neotek and ask about his new tabletop version of the Neotek desks. They're running about $15K.

To a large degree, I would take any of the desks listed here – I've worked on all of them – and it would depend more on the aligning of the right console in great condition at the right price – and its location not being too far away.
Old 27th November 2002
  #4
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Wiggy Neve Slut's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
There are a lot of goodies around.. just need to find them at the right price and find a tech that knows about them to keep them in tip top shape.. which is the hardest part these days.

But look for some of the following:
Neotek Elan, Elite, Series 2 & 3
Little Calrecs
MCI 400, 500 series
Quad Eight
Ward beck.. there are a few of these flaoting around and they have a stack of head room for little amounts of $$ and Dave Thomas in Vancouver BC is 'THE WB man' and will travel to service.

Amek Angela's, 2500 series

just find something that will not break the bank, is serviceable, in good condition and .... sounds good!

****Sytek/Neotek and ask about his new tabletop version of the Neotek desks**** pls tell me more!!

PEACE
Wiggy yuktyy
Old 27th November 2002
  #5
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I've got nothing to add to those. Just remember to save a few thousand for shipping, wiring and having a tech sort though any problems. Figure on $15K for the desk and the other $5K for assorted junk. I've heard mixed reviews on the MXP 3036. Some people have said that it sounds nice and clean, other people have called it the most sterile big console they've ever used. Oh, and skip the Amek Big unless you get a killer deal on one.

BTW, Tell me more about the new Neotek's!!! Is there a link?
Old 27th November 2002
  #6
Gear Guru
 
NathanEldred's Avatar
 
7 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
I've got just under $6k complete into my Soundworkshop series 30 with some pretty extensive but basic upgrades (oversized metal film caps, huge oversized custom PSU....double what I need according to "specs"). That includes a custom 300 point TT bay with multiple 32 pair Canare snakes. It has some serious headroom from what I can tell...I can run a 60hz sine wave (or also a Soundelux U195 in "fat" mode) @ +10 into a line input, then boost the EQ @ 60hz to max and not a hint of distortion. Throw up every fader all the way simultaneously (including the master) and I won't even begin to hear a little noise from the control room out until levels of serious permanent hearing damage would occur if music were being played through the console. Maybe this is normal or not even up to par as some consoles more in cost, but I'm happy because in a real world situation this much stress would generally not occur. The SoundWorkShop series 34 are a step up in features, but the Series 30 has less circuitry in the path so it may actually sound slightly cleaner or more open. If you are looking for coloration, this board does not have it. I have to rely on the front end and tape for that. But it's easier to add coloration than to try and take it away when not applicable.
Old 27th November 2002
  #7
Gear Guru
 
thethrillfactor's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Anyone that recommends the Sony MXP board is crazy. Try finding a good power supply for it(and you will need to eventually). It is a flimsy built board. So what you can stick API's,John Hardy and Forsell pre's into it. In the end after the terrible summing amps you will still end up with the same Sony MXP vanilla sound(you'd be better off buying the these as outboard pres).

Are you tracking or mixing? Is automation and lots of routing important? How about the footprint? Do you have the space for a large 7ft-9ft console? The issues start to mount after a while.

With 20K you can pick up something decent-excellent, depending on your need. I personally would not invest 20K into any digital board(in a year or 2 it will depreciate so fast).tut
Old 27th November 2002
  #8
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e-cue's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
NEOTEK ELAN and a Control24. I could take over the world. (some moron rolled blunts on one of my fav 9000j's and now the faders feel/sound like fingernails against a chalkboard)
Old 27th November 2002
  #9
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subspace's Avatar
 
3 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Neve 5315 or API 1604.
I like the less is more approach and these would give you 12 - 16 channels to patch analog outboard through, with the rest of your tracks being submixed within Paris. Oh, and they may be useful during tracking as well...
Attached Thumbnails
If you had 20K which Console would you buy?-1604.jpg  
Old 27th November 2002
  #10
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chrisso's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
OK, I agree about the Api 1604 but the average console I see is running around 30k (28k if you are lucky) and not $20k.
Has anybody got anything bad to say about the Neotek Elite?!?
I think they look UGLY personally. I also worry about anything built in the 80'-90's sound quality wise (ok I'm a snob).
I have to admit that on 3 separate forums I hear nothing but raves about the thing. In which case why are they so cheap?
Old 27th November 2002
  #11
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e-cue's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by chrisso
Has anybody got anything bad to say about the Neotek Elite?!?
I think they look UGLY personally. I also worry about anything built in the 80'-90's sound quality wise (ok I'm a snob).
I have to admit that on 3 separate forums I hear nothing but raves about the thing. In which case why are they so cheap?
The routing is a little weird to get used to if you are accustom to some of the newer consoles out there. No biggey. They don't have as much headroom as some of the bigger boys which some folks don't care for, but if your gain structure is decent, you shouldn't have any probs. Besides, I like over driving stuff all the time.
Old 28th November 2002
  #12
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hollywood_steve's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
20K mixer

A Trident 80b is the right answer for a lot of people, me included if I was being sensible. Other great alternates include a Sony 3036 and a couple of different Ameks.

But if it was ME, right now, I'd pick up an old API 2408 frame for a couple of grand, spend 10K to have an API experienced tech to wire back all the guts, and then spend the rest of my life stocking it with 500 series modules. You can find console frames that have almost everything but the EQ modules and preamp cards in place for almost no money. Not real practical if you have a session next week, but in a couple of years you would have the best $20k console anyone ever saw.

steve
[email protected]
Old 28th November 2002
  #13
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Re: 20K mixer

Quote:
Originally posted by hollywood_steve
A Trident 80b is the right answer for a lot of people, me included if I was being sensible. Other great alternates include a Sony 3036 and a couple of different Ameks.
[/email]
Not that I have the money right now but there are a couple of tridents on ebay now. What do you think of the 24 series?
How about the Trident Di-an? Never heard of these, but I guess the more you learn the less you knowgrggt
I didn't know Amek ever made bad stuff but the Big and the TAC Scorpion are ****e? I guess the think about getting a pro control
unit is that it shouldn't lose too much value right off.
I'm only doing 24-32 tracks so maybe a smaller board after the control unit.
thanks
Daniel
Old 28th November 2002
  #14
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
The Trident 24 and 65 have the same guts. The 65 is a 16 buss, the 24 is a 24 buss. The Amek Big is not the greatest sounding console in the world. There are other things I'd rather own for the same amount of money. But, it does have a lot of great features which the better sounding consoles don't have.
Old 29th November 2002
  #15
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
Hi I went through this about six months ago. I have PT Mix plus At that time I had a 16 fader Procontrol. I sold it and got a Trident 80b. Definitely a step up in sound, great pres, great EQ, good analog buss section. The problem was while my board was in good shape it still took some work to get 100% and it still has the occasional bug. I knew very little about maintenance but I learned a lot very quickly and had some very stressful weeks until this puppy was up and running. To give you an example, the board was "in full working order" per the broker I got it from. It came out of a Miami studio. His guys "uninstalled it" many lines including the large power lines had to be cut in order to uninstall the console. Nothing was labeled I had to enlist the help guys like these on forums for patchbay and tuchel I/Os. I had to build snakes to configure with all my gear. Once I got it on there was a host of irritating problem, some of which I figured out some of which l had to have a tech come in and fix. I think I spent about $1500 with the tech total.

While you gain a lot in sound quality you lose a good bit in convenience. like to total recall that in PT affords you. You can't just flip between songs or projects without resetting the board, outboard gear, etc.

Bottom line is buy what best suits you. We do mostly Rock bands and an 80b seems to complement that well. I asked your similar question back when I was thinking of purchasing a board, and the overwhelming response from people who's opinion I've learn to trust was be prepared for the maintenance issues. If you are not in an area that gives you access to a tech who is familiar with the board you get or your do not have a strong back ground in electronics be very cautious. You do not want a $20k boat anchor.

Sorry for the long post but this one I can relate to.


Good luck
Richard
Old 30th November 2002
  #16
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doug_hti's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
just to run this by real quick, you may have thought about it...but what about a manley 16x2 for multiple out summing and a control 24 for automation...and some nice outboards...
Then you have good summing, good automation, good newer flexible pre's with whatever flavor you want.
Old 30th November 2002
  #17
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
This has been really great, lots of boards I've never heard of
What are the prices of these tridents you guys are speaking of?
The Manley 16*2, is it any good? Anybody tried the little TLA mixer?8*2 I think? I would really miss motorized faders, so one of the little boards in tandem with the hui or the control 24 is looking good. Thanks
Daniel
Old 30th November 2002
  #18
Gear Guru
 
NathanEldred's Avatar
 
7 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
I have a friend up in Chicago who has a Manley Mixer for sale. I don't think he'll mind me posting this from the Digi forum.

FS: Manley 16x2 8X8 recording console in exelent condition $7200.00 if intrested email me @ [email protected] or call me @773-716-9943 photos and refrences are available
Old 30th November 2002
  #19
Gear Guru
 
thethrillfactor's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by FOURTHTUNZ
This has been really great, lots of boards I've never heard of
What are the prices of these tridents you guys are speaking of?
The Manley 16*2, is it any good? Anybody tried the little TLA mixer?8*2 I think? I would really miss motorized faders, so one of the little boards in tandem with the hui or the control 24 is looking good. Thanks
Daniel

The Control 24 is a toy compared to the Pro Control. I had one for a couple of months and was very dissapointed with it.

It was a piece of junk basically(I know this is a little harsh) but its just an opinion. The prices of used Pro Controls have gone down dramatically(probably because they will release a new version soon).

There are many good summing boxes out there. I know Jules likes the Dangerous Box and i liked the Boutique Audio summimg box.

But its still in the end not going to be the same as a console.
Old 1st December 2002
  #20
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davemc's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Yes the ergonomics of the contro2l4 was not designed by anyone who would actually uses stuff. To high important keys in wrong places.
Although I did play with the faders on a digi002 the other day, and you do get what you pay for. A pro Control would be nice instead, I just would want the edit pack and 16 faders so the price is a restraint.
Old 1st December 2002
  #21
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 15 years
I had a Procontrol 16 for several months but I just could not get use to it . I still ended up using the mouse a good bit. But it looked REALLY cool!!
Old 3rd December 2002
  #22
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by thethrillfactor
The Control 24 is a toy compared to the Pro Control. I had one for a couple of months and was very dissapointed with it.
It was a piece of junk basically(I know this is a little harsh) but its just an opinion. The prices of used Pro Controls have gone down dramatically(probably because they will release a new version soon).
Yeah, it seems that there really isn't a great controller for Protools yet, but I have heard that the Procontrol is the best.
Digi says that there is no new Procontrol for 2003, they say that now, must not be ready to ship for awhile
The Hui isn't too bad when it works, but the midi aspect of it is kinda hinkydfegad
control24 is just stop gap for now. Now how about a procontrol24 with api cardslots
Take care
Daniel
Old 3rd December 2002
  #23
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C.Lambrechts's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
For all I know there is no new ProControl about to be released. As far as functionnality ... PT 6.0 will feature the long awaited 'JS Scrub' also known as the 'Julian Standen Scrubwheel funtionality' which will turn ProControl into a editing surface as well.
Old 3rd December 2002
  #24
jon
Capitol Studios Paris
 
jon's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
In the end, what desk to get depends on your clients' needs and your market niche you plan to serve. Then, look at financing and service/maintenance issues. That should basically narrow it right down.

Financing and after-sale service (maintenance) are two key issues when talking about large-frame analog consoles.

For example, you could use the $20k as a down payment, together with lease financing, and buy a newer, modern desk, like an Amek Media 51 or 9098i, or a used desk that SSL or Neve took as a trade-in when a client went newer or bigger.

$20k is kind of a strange area...I'd spend either less, or use financing and spend much more.

Good luck.
Old 4th December 2002
  #25
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by jon
In the end, what desk to get depends on your clients' needs and your market niche you plan to serve. Then, look at financing and service/maintenance issues. That should basically narrow it right down.
$20k is kind of a strange area...I'd spend either less, or use financing and spend much more.
Good luck.
Ha, Ha that's my problems I already have way more than my clients deserve or needgrggt
I'm just a gearslut shoppin around,trying to mine what I can from this topic
So waddya think? Will I have to raise that figure to $30 or $40k ?
I don't mean to imply that I have the money yet but ya know, gotta have my visionquest
So 16 or 24 channels $30-$40k what falls in this range?
Whats the best, what to look out for? I think I will use protools for recording and autumation, use the board on the way in and out. Sorry if this is getting old for some of you but for me this has been very imformative, Thanks!
Daniel
Old 4th December 2002
  #26
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Wiggy Neve Slut's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
DAKING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Last time i enquired they were somewhere in that range. And whilst im not sure that many have been made or are in production yet i would seriously love to have one! The price may have changed since that time too which was nearly 2 yrs ago now.

Check out the website for more pics and info, as if you are after a vintage sounding console that is brand new (read no maintenance hassles!!!!!!! well for a while at least!) that is definately the ticket. If it sounds anything like the racked modular stuff which i am sure it will.. it will rock ya world..

Oh well.. when i win lotto i'll get daking to make me a winged version with 48 channels!..lol

www.daking.com

PEACE
Wiggy


Wiggyrollz
Old 4th December 2002
  #27
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Wiggy Neve Slut
DAKING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Last time i enquired they were somewhere in that range. And whilst im not sure that many have been made or are in production yet i would seriously love to have one! The price may have changed since that time too which was nearly 2 yrs ago now.
Check out the website for more pics and info, as if you are after a vintage sounding console that is brand new (read no maintenance hassles!!!!!!! well for a while at least!) that is definately the ticket. If it sounds anything like the racked modular stuff which i am sure it will.. it will rock ya world..
Wiggyrollz
Ha Ha, you are right my friend, the Daking 1112 looks like sweet analog nirvana
I wonder what this thing goes for?
I wonder how it sounds compared to say the amek media 51, which I realize has a different mission. This Daking 1112 is new yes? Thanks
daniel
Old 4th December 2002
  #28
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Ok, i just found a neotek-elite, for about 20k. Circa 1987 what are the issues with this board? reliable? the Pres sound good?
So this is more than the tabletop model by Mike Stoika but more functional, more problems cause its older?
Thank
daniel
Old 4th December 2002
  #29
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
[QUOTE]Originally posted by FOURTHTUNZ
[B]
What are the prices of these tridents you guys are speaking of?

Anywhere from about $1500 to $150K for an A-Range IF you can find one.
Old 4th December 2002
  #30
Gear Guru
 
thethrillfactor's Avatar
 
4 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by FOURTHTUNZ
Ha, Ha that's my problems I already have way more than my clients deserve or needgrggt
I'm just a gearslut shoppin around,trying to mine what I can from this topic
So waddya think? Will I have to raise that figure to $30 or $40k ?
I don't mean to imply that I have the money yet but ya know, gotta have my visionquest
So 16 or 24 channels $30-$40k what falls in this range?
Whats the best, what to look out for? I think I will use protools for recording and autumation, use the board on the way in and out. Sorry if this is getting old for some of you but for me this has been very imformative, Thanks!
Daniel

Again is this for mixing or tracking? Is a pro studio or a home studio?

With that much money you have lots of options at your disposal.
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