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So what is "warmth" anyway
Old 8th November 2002
  #1
So what is "warmth" anyway

So what is "warmth" anyway, everybody is talking about it, trying to get it into their recordings, and the manufacturers are using it for marketing. So what is it? How does it sound? What does it sound like if it's missing?
Old 8th November 2002
  #2
member no 666
 
Fletcher's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
For the most part it's a bull**** term that can be equated to a subtle phase shift that slows down the top end, some even order harmonic distortion... or things that don't have a hyped and grainy top... or some other **** I can't think of at the moment, or all or none of the above.
Old 8th November 2002
  #3
Gear Addict
 
cymatics's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Re: So what is "warmth" anyway

I see it as a word that may have had meaning at some point; but has now become a nebulous catch-all word that unimaginative ad copy writers frivolously insert when there is no better way to describe the crap they are supposed to be marketing. I also think that any two peoples perception of 'warmth' is going to vary as greatly as any two peoples perception of 'spiciness' with regard to food.

That being said, the word 'warm' for me conjures up a sonic image of gently rolled of highs and enhanced low-mids/high-bass.

- jon
Old 9th November 2002
  #4
Lives for gear
 
Steve Smith's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Everything the Clean Guitar at the end of " Sympathy for the Devil" isn't.
Old 9th November 2002
  #5
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drundall's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Re: So what is "warmth" anyway

Quote:
Originally posted by mwagener
What does it sound like if it's missing?
I'd say turn on pop radio & you'll hear for yourself.
Old 9th November 2002
  #6
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
warmth is a nice pussy on a cold day.
Old 9th November 2002
  #7
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Midlandmorgan's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Hmmm...a bass-ackwards Bubba Here, but...

I think of warmth as a sound with just a touch of inaudible second order distortion thrown in...

or the opposite of coldth...
Old 9th November 2002
  #8
Craneslut
 
Brad Blackwood's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
The opposite of bad digital.
Old 11th November 2002
  #9
jon
Capitol Studios Paris
 
jon's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
What Brad said.

Nowadays, the opposite of mini-discs, cheap sound cards, yucky pres, jitter, finalizers, plug-ins, cheap n hypey condenser mics, over-pushed pres and poor gain staging, etc, etc.
Old 11th November 2002
  #10
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Brad Blackwood
The opposite of bad digital.
or the opposite of bad analog... think steve albini.
Old 11th November 2002
  #11
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e-cue's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Warmth, aka Mush
Old 12th November 2002
  #12
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C.Lambrechts's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I'm with Fletcher on the 'bull****' use of the term.


dfegad warmth.
Old 12th November 2002
  #13
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Kris's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
It is a 'relative' term...

for example... my AT4060 has much more 'warmth' than my Rode NT2 on my voice.

Not necessarily bull****... we got to communicate somehow right... it's all about being on the same page and believing in who you are communicating with.
Old 13th November 2002
  #14
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Knox's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
This is a little off subject. To me, it is a "somewhat" bull**** term, but you can't deny that with early SSLs, early digital, and the harshness of cds and the like in the 80s . . . that everyone was looking for a "warmer" sound when that catch phrase began. Not sure they even knew why . . but "something" told them the sound they were hearing was not pleasant . . . . but at the time, digital seemed cool. I remember being blown away that there was "no hiss". I go back and listen to some of that **** that we did now and am blown away that there is no balls and the top end is not "warm" compared to some things we were tracking on Studer 24 track analog. (no, I am NOT trying to start a digital versus analog thread . . . AGAIN)

I remember in the 80s when everyone was raving about the Mits 32 track digital machine that some of us were working on and the early SSLs (Sure Sounds Lousy) . . . . I heard about Tube Tech and Summit coming out with 'tube warmth' and I wanted it. I remember ordering a lot of Tube Tech from Mike Harris and people were asking me "why I would want a bunch of old tube ****?" People had just been giving Pultecs away a few years earlier. Of course tubes are not the only answer for so called warmth.

It is something I still seek actually . . .the warmth. If I buy a new cd and want to sit down in the control room and give a good listen, I still run it through the Hedd or two channels of Tube Tech compression to make it a more enjoyable listening experience . . . . 'for me'.

It's funny, I HATED SSLs back then (still not my favorite by far, though I have not worked on the newer ones so I probably don't know how much better they are). I HATED the way they sounded . . . . so we would take our Mits multi tracks and go to Philly to Sigma or someplace else that had an old Neve (plus I would ship my Tube Techs around) to try to make the Mits sound better / warmer! LOL

Why in the hell were we recording on them in the first place? It was magic! "No hiss!" LOL
Old 13th November 2002
  #15
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groundcontrol's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Knox
...People had just been giving Pultecs away a few years earlier...
AAAHH Stop that it hurts!!
Old 13th November 2002
  #16
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Knox's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
There are stories that radio stations and studios in NYC were taking their Pultecs and simply throwing them away in trash bins . . . . I actually know some guys that saved a couple from trash cans. Honestly, I probably wouldn't have pulled them out of the trash at THAT time. GEEZ! What a dumb ass!
Old 13th November 2002
  #17
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e-cue's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by Knox
I actually know some guys that saved a couple from trash cans. Honestly, I probably wouldn't have pulled them out of the trash at THAT time. GEEZ! What a dumb ass!
Hell, I'd pull a 3630 out of the trash... I could always use a new doorstop.
Old 13th November 2002
  #18
no ssl yet
Guest
E-Cue Did u hear that BF is giving away 3630 Plugins?


That one and the New MCDSP Home Studio sound Plugs

They emulate mackie 8bus/Adat sounds for that Vintage 90's apartment studio sound
Old 13th November 2002
  #19
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e-cue's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Don't even joke about that...
Old 13th November 2002
  #20
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e-cue's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
but I wouldn't put it past Erik and the Bomb Factory guys... I mean, they DID emulate the Joe Meek stuff right? (kiddiinnnnnggggg, just kidding yall)
Old 16th November 2002
  #21
Gear Guru
 
jwh1192's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
warmth.....when the hairs in your ears are not bent and cracked from the constant on and off of digital.....umm warmth...."bart".....doe....

other words that come to mind.....

smooth
buttery
creamy
soft
toasty
milky

hairless......opps off the subject

Old 17th November 2002
  #22
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally posted by jwh1192
when the hairs in your ears are not bent and cracked from the constant on and off of digital.....
good thing you dont have a brain sending on and off impluses... thinking might make those hairs fall out.
Old 17th November 2002
  #23
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Wiggy Neve Slut's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Ampex MM1200 2" 16 track.. i sold it.. im a fool!!! what more cani say?..lol

PEACE
Wiggy
Old 17th November 2002
  #24
Gear Guru
 
jwh1192's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 15 years
what is the sample rate of our brains.....?

sorry for the lapse in thought, I was in an off mode for a split second....
Old 17th November 2002
  #25
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
69 googlehertz?

i dunno... but the truth is that digital is more analagous to reality than analog. the universe is on and off, light and dark, god and satan, 0 and 1.

i wish computers were getting faster more quickly so we could easily record at 32/192 with ease.
Old 17th November 2002
  #26
Gear Head
 
Lars FM's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
isn't "warmth" simply what cheap tube gear has? yuktyy

Lars
Old 17th November 2002
  #27
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Knox's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Big suprise . . but I disagree AJ. That is a pretty large and sweeping statement. It's not that I want to start this tired old debate again but . . . . I disagree whole heartedly. Though I understand what you mean by the statement . . . . . . in theory.

I hear things with more depth then digital gives. I also hear things with more low end. I hear things wider and with more dimension as well. I don't hear in Os and 1s.

I have both digital and analog here so I hear the difference daily. I see you here and at other forums always being defensive about digital and I sometimes wonder, if you had a 2" analog 16 track sitting in your studio on a daily basis what your opinion would be. Not as to what comes back cleaner or with no hiss . . . . but which is more pleasant and useful . . . . . forget the editing for a moment.

I KNOW you have recorded on analog . . I have read that a zillion times. I just wonder if YOU had it on a daily basis wired into your studio, cutting rock and roll as you and I do . . . what your choice would be from a strictly audible comparison. I wonder if you defend digital so vehemently . . because that is what you have or if you honestly find it to be true to you that it sounds better for what you are recording.

BTW . . I am not being argumentative here. I am honestly trying to be open minded and curious what you honestly feel and hear as it REALLY doesn't matter what format you or I use miles away from each other.

To me the difference is night and day . . . . that's why as a studio that offers both . . . I hardly ever go to digital. Again . . . not trying to start an argument . . just looking for your HONEST answer IF you had both.
Old 18th November 2002
  #28
There is only one
 
alphajerk's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
i would LOVE a 2" 16 track in my studio... especially outfitted with Aria electronics. im not a moron. but it would be a big effect box.

but the universe IS digital. your hearing IS digital. albiet at a much finer resolution that current digital is at... or possibly ever will be, but digital WILL pass analog in the near future.
Old 18th November 2002
  #29
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Wiggy Neve Slut's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
but digital WILL pass analog in the near future

Yes.. the day that techs wont be needed to keep 2" 's rolling and we can finanlly put the time old arguement of which format is better to bed...

Analogue will still be important in a digital future but it will play more of a role as another colour to the engineers pallette of recording tools as it is starting to become now..

PEACE
Wiggy
Old 18th November 2002
  #30
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Knox's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I know that one day soon records will be made in a room that ONLY has a table of some sort, a keyboard, a monitor and some speakers . . . . . and I dread that day. I REALLY hate staring at a computer to make music and hate the sound of it . . . . . but you are probably right, it will be soon. I'm sure there are many that do it now, with no outboard gear. I hate the thought of it. . . . . . for me.

Again, not trying to start a "which is better discussion" . . . . . it's just so unappealing to me it's hard to believe. I think I would rather have dick cancer . . . . maybe.

I pick up trade magazines . . . . and I don't find any kind of software or plug ins appealing in the least. I don't even want to read about them. It doesn't give me any spark at all thinking about running music through some piece of software or staring at a computer screen, though we do some of it. It doesn't "move me" let's say. Though music has always "moved me".

Now of course . . I realize that I am either going to have to embrace it in some form or get out of the business . . . . I hate that! I have done this my whole life . . . . but it just does NOTHING for me. I know many guys from my era that feel the same and are looking at what they want to do.

The bands that come here come here because of my past and the 2" machine and vintage vibe / gear. I like that . . . but some of the newer guys don't even know about a 2" machine or what it even does. It's pretty sad.
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