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Buying small high end analog console
Old 2 weeks ago
  #1
Buying small high end analog console

Hi!
I am buying a new (probably vintage) mixer for my composing studio.
I record in the style of Jazz with Soul influences.

I prefer a very musical EQ, an open sound  (not a muddy sounding mixer). Minimum 3 band with sweapable mids.

It is for a totally analog set up, where I run high end preamps (Gyraf, Phoenix Audio etc) with eq into an Tascam MS16 , 1 inch reel to reel machine.

The console should be for mixing down coming from MS16 to 2 track reel to reel, have a 2 track 1/4 inch Lyrec Frida today.

My needs are minimum 4 auxes, 2 for Lexicon pcm 92 and TC M2000 and 2 for foldback listening.
Hooking up a CD player going in and 2 master out to 2 track and one set of Monitors (ATC10) for listening. Max measurement 1,2 m x 1,2 m.

Budget 10 000 euros

My conclusion/wishlist and what is available right now:
Studer 962 - unfortenately only 1 aux, 1 foldback
Cadac Live 1 or old J series, (havent found one)
Emtec m100 - unfortenately only 1 aux, 1 fb
Harrisson 950 - no sweapable eq on the 2011 model
Tonelux v rack with 8 eqs, 2 compressors, patchbay etc
Tore Seem broadcast mixer, has 4 auxes but I will know tomorrow if they are connected, since it is a rebuild.
(Also thought about Calrec, Audient, Raindirk and Neotek)

So now to the questions:
1. Which one would you chose of the above?
2. Which other mixer would you suggest for a price of max 10 000 euros?
3. Please PM me if you are selling something that fit my needs!
Old 2 weeks ago
  #2
Gear Guru
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
check for a studer 928 or calrec or desks used for live sound from dda/midas, yamaha etc. (such as xl200/xl250, xl3/xl4, heritage 2000/3000, pm3500/4000/5000 or amek recall) although the larger desks may become an issue in terms of size/weight if you don't cut them down.

that said, i would neither buy an analog desk nor use tape in 2021 but to each his/her own...

Last edited by deedeeyeah; 2 weeks ago at 04:14 PM..
Old 2 weeks ago
  #3
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Don Larking usuaIIy has some Cadac's in. ProbabIy where I wouId go. But I aIso haven't tried many others on that Iist, and if you find the right CaIrec (the standy uppy bIue one) weII those sound amazing, too.....
Old 2 weeks ago
  #4
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Amek BC2 or BC3 desks are another option.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #5
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Audient ASP4816
https://audient.com/products/consoles/asp4816/overview/

It's not a Neve, API, or SSL, but neither are brands you mentioned.

However, it is close to your budget, has many aux sends, has sweepable mids, is from a good company, is new, is reasonably small, and won't be a 30-year old perpetual repair project (where you might not even be able to get parts for it).

Faders wear out. Do you want noisy scratchy faders? Filter caps dry out. Do you want to have to re-cap a 30 year old B-grade mixing console? Why?

Just putting things out there to think about.
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #6
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by gearstudent ➡️
Audient ASP4816
https://audient.com/products/consoles/asp4816/overview/

It's not a Neve, API, or SSL, but neither are brands you mentioned.

However, it is close to your budget, has many aux sends, has sweepable mids, is from a good company, is new, is reasonably small, and won't be a 30-year old perpetual repair project (where you might not even be able to get parts for it).

Faders wear out. Do you want noisy scratchy faders? Filter caps dry out. Do you want to have to re-cap a 30 year old B-grade mixing console? Why?

Just putting things out there to think about.
B grade? Which one(s) on his Iist do you consider B grade? Compared to those the Audient is B grade.
Old 2 weeks ago | Show parent
  #7
Quote:
Originally Posted by gearstudent ➡️
Audient ASP4816
https://audient.com/products/consoles/asp4816/overview/

It's not a Neve, API, or SSL, but neither are brands you mentioned.

However, it is close to your budget, has many aux sends, has sweepable mids, is from a good company, is new, is reasonably small, and won't be a 30-year old perpetual repair project (where you might not even be able to get parts for it).

Faders wear out. Do you want noisy scratchy faders? Filter caps dry out. Do you want to have to re-cap a 30 year old B-grade mixing console? Why?

Just putting things out there to think about.
Hi! Thanks for all the replys, I hear you all!
Suppose to buy an old bradcast Tore Seem today but it didnt have auxes and other things connected.
Yes "gearstudent" the Audient 4816 would be great! I really want a clean sounding desk.
I will drop the old ones, actually came to that conclusion earlier today.
One that really caught my mind is Speck Lilo but it is rare and not made anymore. APB Prorack H1010 is also interesting, but havent heard the eq, any thoughts on that one compared to Speck and Audient? Thanks for helping out!
Old 2 weeks ago
  #8
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
I recently purchased a Soundcraft BB100 in it's smallest form. It's really an AMEK that was rebranded Soundcraft by Harmon. It's the last decendent of Amek BC2/BC3. They are just getting to the age where a recap can be avoided but could be needed.

Every back plug option you can want. Took up 84 points on my patch bay because I set up all the inserts etc.
The manual is on Soundcraft's website.

They are not very common. I am very happy with it. They cost $18,000 to $40,000 depending on channel count when they came out.

Here is a larger one that's been on reverb forever.

https://reverb.com/item/16849597-ame...-plug-and-play


More headroom that any mixer I have used. EQ is fantastic. 8 Aux sends. 4 or 8 buss depending on channel count.

Attached a picture of mine from a recent re-racking. Picked that one up for about $3K. It's 12U tall, and about 1 foot thick in the back weight about 50lbs.
Attached Thumbnails
Buying small high end analog console-img_1613.jpg  
Old 1 week ago
  #9
Lives for gear
 
The Audient is a good clean desk with a nice workflow. Clean, ample headroom, good EQs, underrated desk imho.

You have plenty of color with the outboard you have and could always add another comp it EQ on the 4816 mixbus.

Another option would be Zähl AM1. If you only need a few channels it might be in the budget. Has no pre’s though.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #10
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by elegentdrum ➡️
I recently purchased a Soundcraft BB100 in it's smallest form. It's really an AMEK that was rebranded Soundcraft by Harmon. It's the last decendent of Amek BC2/BC3. They are just getting to the age where a recap can be avoided but could be needed.

Every back plug option you can want. Took up 84 points on my patch bay because I set up all the inserts etc.
The manual is on Soundcraft's website.

They are not very common. I am very happy with it. They cost $18,000 to $40,000 depending on channel count when they came out.

Here is a larger one that's been on reverb forever.

https://reverb.com/item/16849597-ame...-plug-and-play


More headroom that any mixer I have used. EQ is fantastic. 8 Aux sends. 4 or 8 buss depending on channel count.

Attached a picture of mine from a recent re-racking. Picked that one up for about $3K. It's 12U tall, and about 1 foot thick in the back weight about 50lbs.
Oohh, small desk envy. Is that 8 ADM EQs under there?
Old 1 week ago
  #11
Lives for gear
 
drockfresh's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Let's all just dream of Daking or Great River making us a true table top mixer
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #12
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by drockfresh ➡️
Let's all just dream of Daking or Great River making us a true table top mixer
12 channeI tabIetop Sound Techniques for me, pIease. If you pay. ;-)
Old 1 week ago
  #13
8 channel Soundcraft Delta deluxe. 4 band EQ with two sweep mids, 6 aux sends, great mic preamp design, true balanced line inputs, phase reverse, 100 hz filter and that fabulous -90 db stereo crosstalk spec at 10k hz = wide deep mixes.

I bought one for $400. I also got a 16 channel at $500. Paid $600 for the 24x4x2. That was $11k new.
Old 1 week ago
  #14
#19
Gear Head
 
🎧 15 years
Take a good look at the Schertler ARTHUR mixer. It’s modular, sounds fantastic.
You might want the X series modules.
Because it is modular you only buy what you need and can additional modules if needed.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #15
Here for the gear
 
jo_mix's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcgilroy ➡️
The Audient is a good clean desk with a nice workflow. Clean, ample headroom, good EQs, underrated desk imho.

You have plenty of color with the outboard you have and could always add another comp it EQ on the 4816 mixbus.

Another option would be Zähl AM1. If you only need a few channels it might be in the budget. Has no pre’s though.
Hi!
Thanks for the advice! Zahl I already dreamed of the AM1!
However it is something like 2000 dollars per channel and I need 16, so that is out of reach.
Right now I have Audient 4816 or maybe an Cadac F series in mind. The only problem is that they are both in the UK and Sweden customs add 25% VAT even on second hand gear, if it is coming from outside of the EU. Anyone close to Sweden, please contact me!
Old 1 week ago
  #16
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KIDBILL's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
If I was in your schoes, I would just buy a 16 or 24 tracks studer 902 and be super happy!!
https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-...238776-74-9361
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #17
Here for the gear
 
jo_mix's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by KIDBILL ➡️
If I was in your schoes, I would just buy a 16 or 24 tracks studer 902 and be super happy!!
https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-...238776-74-9361
Hi Kidbill! Yes those are beautiful but there is a bunch to fix and I don´t have time for it.

My latest thought is the Neve 8816 summingbox with faders 8804 and put 8 high end 500 eqs (and maybe some comps) in front of that. I am only using this for analog mixing between 16 ch R2R to 2 track R2R , all analog set up. I use my very fine pres going straight to the 16 ch R2R.

Only downside is that it will only feed one reverb but I am all into minimalism so any other reverbs/delay will be recorded to tape.

Almost there....
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #18
Lives for snowflakes
 
12ax7's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
...Maybe just a bit too rich for your blood (I know it is for mine), but these folks make VERY nice stuff:
TreeAudio.com
Old 1 week ago
  #19
Lives for gear
SONY MCI was making a small but high quality studio/broadcasting console. It's not an absolutely high end, but definitely pro grade.
Old 1 week ago
  #20
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
If you're looking for clean, I'd suggest the D&R series. European (Netherlands) so fairly close to you. I'd look for OrionX, Orion, Vision, Triton, etc.. You should easily be able to find something in the EU that would fit your needs and budget.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #21
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 ➡️
Oohh, small desk envy. Is that 8 ADM EQs under there?
Yes it is. And a GML 8200 in between. My EQ rack. On the patch bay, the ADM go to attenuators(little labs) then the vintage maker summer. Was my main analog paths before the mixer was added. Organized the stuff in EQ rack, effects rack, and compressor rack. Preamps and power supplies are in other racks not shown.

Last edited by elegentdrum; 1 week ago at 10:57 AM..
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #22
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by elegentdrum ➡️
Yes it is. And a GML 8200 in between. My EQ rack. On the patch bay, the ADM go to attenuators(little labs) then the vintage maker summer. Was my main analog paths before the mixer was added. Organized the stuff in EQ rack, effects rack, and compressor rack. Preamps and power supplies are in other racks not shown.
Nice. I love my ADM eqs. Sometimes tempted to add a switch to halve the gain steps for more precision though.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #23
Here for the gear
 
jo_mix's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill ➡️
If you're looking for clean, I'd suggest the D&R series. European (Netherlands) so fairly close to you. I'd look for OrionX, Orion, Vision, Triton, etc.. You should easily be able to find something in the EU that would fit your needs and budget.
Hi you all!
Thanks for getting into my thread, it means the world to me!

So, I decided on what to get. YEAH! I wanted a clean mixer in a small format and don´t need preamps. I spent 1-2 weeks on reading and listening...

I bought the SSL X-Desk, one more Radial workhorse and are shopping for eq´s and compressors now, which is exiting!

Recording going into the Tascam R2R, will buy things in ():
1-2. Roland TD-27 drums, STEREO out - SAM82 mixer - (missing st comp)
3. Piano - Gyraf Tube pre - Tonelux eq5 - RNC 500
4. Bass - Hellborg preamp - (will try my NTP comp or IGS Tubecore) - (pultec DIY build)
5. Drummachine - Avalon U5 - Pultec DIY - DBX 160
6. Synt melody - Gyraf tubepre - Colorpalette tape saturation
So that is my 6 main channels
(7. Phoenix Audio extra preamp for Acoustic bass (maybe NTP comp) )
(8. Phoenix Audio extra pre for guitars/percussion)
Of course, the eq/ comps might be swithed to were they excel the best and I am sure there are so many other options

And when my girlfriend sings - Neve 551 pre - Maag EQ4 - Phoenix comp

Mixing set up going in to X-DESK with the 2 auxes going to Lexicon pcm92 and Masterroom XL305, will insert one delay where needed.

1-2. Drums - IGS rubber band ME stero version
3. Piano - API 550A, demo version, nice price
4. Would like to try the CAPI LC25 on the bass?, the API 560 is to exp.
5. Drummachine - Studer 169 EQ
6. Synt melody - Studer 169 EQ

Anyway I am buying/looking for bass eq for the mixing stage.
Not sure if I buy the 2 Pultec DIY kits?
Will get a SSL Fusion for the master.
Thinking of a st comp for drums for recording (like the IGS Tubecore but need 2 then = 4 spaces)
Not sure about Bass eq for mixing, might not need it.

So what are you´re imediate reactions to my plan, what would you change?

Excited to hear your thoughts!
Old 1 week ago
  #24
Lives for snowflakes
 
12ax7's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johan Maximilian ➡️
[...]
Which other mixer would you suggest for a price of max 10 000 euros?
The folks at Cooper are aiming more at the film/video audio capture world, but their stuff is also very useful for the kinda stuff you're talking about here (especially if you have a patchbay at your disposal).

Their stuff is built to last (with headroom for days) and is always just about dead quiet, while also seeming very "transparent" without sounding "clinical" or "sterile" (to my ears, at least):
CooperSound.com
Old 1 week ago
  #25
Lives for gear
 
deuc647's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
If you dont need automation or recall, look into ADT. Im looking into getting a frame from them and just purchasing channel strips when money becomes available.
Old 1 week ago
  #26
Lives for gear
I don't know if you guys can find one now, but I used to own GML (compatible to Millenia) rack mount mixer. No EQ, but it is probably one of the highest end mixer money can buy in terms of sound quality. Millenia version comes with HV-3 pre. I had that one, too. I can connect Millenia from/to GML via ribbon cable or just swapping cards, then something like connecting Millenia input module to GML mix bus module is possible. I remember I bought used ones for around 12K each. Both are somewhat fragile.
Old 1 week ago
  #27
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Paul_G's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Bass eq. Yup Pultec springs to mind. AML full size or 500 solid state are great. Useful for tracking everything and for mix buss.
Otherwise I use an API graphic or a Neve flavour.
If I don’t use an amp With a Zod DI I always saturate the bass.
I’d go Overstayer for the drum comp for maximum flexibility.
Old 1 week ago
  #28
Lives for gear
 
midmost's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Zähl AM-1
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