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Neumann m49 vs m149
Old 21st September 2022 | Show parent
  #571
Gear Head
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by thismercifulfate ➡️
Klaus is not a person who resorts to hyperbolic language. His text is clear about him referring to that specific specimen and those comments not referring to ALL reissues. He means what he says, since he’s holding the mic to the standard that Neumann themselves are claiming to build the mic to.
Hyperbole is synonymous with exaggeration.

"lifeless in the highs, choked and hard in the midrange, congested and unable to process complex information in time, resulting in sibilance. The bass region was starved, with the lowest octave severely under-represented.
...oddly anemic and small, compared to the original. So, to me, the mic lacked sensual excitement, with an overall character best described as pedestrian...

If you choose to blindly follow Klause, then knock yourself out. My suggestion would be to listen to the microphone and form your own opinion. I very much doubt you'll agree with Klause's assessment.
Old 21st September 2022 | Show parent
  #572
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thismercifulfate's Avatar
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by htieksppircs ➡️
Hyperbole is synonymous with exaggeration.

"lifeless in the highs, choked and hard in the midrange, congested and unable to process complex information in time, resulting in sibilance. The bass region was starved, with the lowest octave severely under-represented.
...oddly anemic and small, compared to the original. So, to me, the mic lacked sensual excitement, with an overall character best described as pedestrian...

If you choose to blindly follow Klause, then knock yourself out. My suggestion would be to listen to the microphone and form your own opinion. I very much doubt you'll agree with Klause's assessment.
I have had the pleasure of meeting and conversing with the man in person twice, so there’s no blind following. You on the other hand seem to be making up your mind about him based on your inability to grasp that he actually means what he wrote. Maybe it’s a cultural thing - different people handle directness or criticism differently than others.
Old 21st September 2022 | Show parent
  #573
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matucha's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 20 years
Be careful out there about 2nd hand M149s. There is a new chinese copy of M149 that's hard to distinguish from the real one, like the U87ai (and many many other) was. I'm sure people will find what the subtle visual differences are so it's going to be easier to spot the fakes. At this moment be very suspectful of too good to be true deals. They cloned TLM mics too... like TLM193 (btw it's not transformerless, hahaha).

Old 21st September 2022 | Show parent
  #574
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toledo3's Avatar
 
🎧 20 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by matucha ➡️
They cloned TLM mics too... like TLM193 (btw it's not transformerless, hahaha).

Yeah, I saw a TLM193 “clone” with transformer as well. It looked kind of like a U87 circuit(!) at quick glance.

I have heard a few dealers say they think the U87 is far overpriced so it’s hard for them to move. It’s hard not to think…I can SEE shortcomings in some of these internet store knockoffs, so I’m sure they are far from perfect, but it’s still starting to surprise me that they are trying to duplicate some relevant circuits. Even if not always the “correct” ones for the mic body.
Old 21st September 2022
  #575
Gear Maniac
 
The M149 is more than $4000. By M49, you mean the M49V for more than $6000? Who hears a difference there compared with the U87?

come on are you serious? You claim you'd pass a blind test in the end master if the vocals were recorded with a U87 vs. M149.... aargh....
Old 21st September 2022 | Show parent
  #576
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toledo3's Avatar
 
🎧 20 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by htieksppircs ➡️
Hyperbole is synonymous with exaggeration.

"lifeless in the highs, choked and hard in the midrange, congested and unable to process complex information in time, resulting in sibilance. The bass region was starved, with the lowest octave severely under-represented.
...oddly anemic and small, compared to the original. So, to me, the mic lacked sensual excitement, with an overall character best described as pedestrian...

If you choose to blindly follow Klause, then knock yourself out. My suggestion would be to listen to the microphone and form your own opinion. I very much doubt you'll agree with Klause's assessment.
It’s not worth arguing about. Reality is nuanced.

When I read Klaus’s criticism, I also questioned it and wanted to know further detail. The internet is not exactly a place for nuanced discussion sometimes, and it added an unfortunate amount of heat to the discussion.

If you want to understand what makes Klaus say something, just ask him directly.

When I read about the mods he did, I was thinking, why didn’t they return the mic for warranty service. NOW, all this time later and realizing who had the mics…people have existing relationships! If someone is friendly with Klaus and has had good results with his services, there is no reason not to think to have him check the mics.

Also. If Klaus says the tension of the capsule is too much in his opinion, he does know how to verify that claim, he’s not just making things up. I personally questioned this at first…what level of confidence there was about this claim. You may not agree with him, but he is authentic.

No one is infallible, and there is far too much deference to whatever various people think on this forum as opposed to people learning for themselves. No one’s opinion is a substitute for your own, because no one else is operating within the context you are. That is individual. THAT SAID, I have a mic with a CK12 provided by him that is among the best sounding mics I’ve ever heard, possibly the best.

When someone is zooming in on the smallest, MICRO level differences, who is really to say that they are too passionate about how they phrase things?

Everyone hears differently and puts different levels of importance on various aspects of sound. I mean…I think the U67RI mics I’ve heard sound great. I think the single recording I’ve heard done with the M49-V sounds, uhh, not so good. That can be true, and it can also be true that Klaus heard a crappy U67RI, and that he liked the second M49V he heard.

Nothing worth arguing over, getting into character assassination, etc! Klaus is a great guy, super knowledgeable, helpful.
Old 21st September 2022 | Show parent
  #577
Gear Guru
 
chessparov2.0's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Word!

Singing/trying the initial U67 at the first that Winter NAMM, they unveiled for us on the West Coast...

Mirrored Klaus' observations.
I was SO disappointed, from what I expected.
I grew up on all those classic Moody Blues/Elton/Van the Man/The Who vocals.

Made on the mighty U67.

The "magic" wasn't there on Lead and my Spirit wasn't freed.

Gee maybe I'm a distant Corsican Cousin (twice removed) from Klaus. When it comes to proclamations of poetical prose.

Thankfully, the next two years at NAMM, both times I tried a U67 RI it sounded wonderful!
Chris
Old 21st September 2022 | Show parent
  #578
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by jorgzen ➡️
The M149 is more than $4000. By M49, you mean the M49V for more than $6000? Who hears a difference there compared with the U87?

come on are you serious? You claim you'd pass a blind test in the end master if the vocals were recorded with a U87 vs. M149.... aargh....
Nobody makes their recording decisions while listening to the finished master. The performances those two different mics evoke will be quite radically different as will the raw sound. All these things affect the outcome.

87/149 are very very different sound mics. The k67 capsule in an 87 in particular imposes quite a strong sonic signature that is often recognisable (blind) in the final product if you know what to listen for. (It’s a midrange phase-related ‘thing’.)
Old 21st September 2022 | Show parent
  #579
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mattcollen's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_G ➡️
I hope so Matt, all this modern day waiting is frustrating whatever the reasons.
I have good news. My sales guy called today. Mine arrives tomorrow. It is a complicated story, which I won't air on the forum, but despite me being jumped in the line, my dealer honored my place through some bartering and etc. I should have it tomorrow or Friday. I can't wait. I will post some pictures when it is in my hands.
Old 22nd September 2022 | Show parent
  #580
Gear Head
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by thismercifulfate ➡️
I have had the pleasure of meeting and conversing with the man in person twice, so there’s no blind following. You on the other hand seem to be making up your mind about him based on your inability to grasp that he actually means what he wrote. Maybe it’s a cultural thing - different people handle directness or criticism differently than others.
I don't doubt that he means what he wrote, and I don't doubt his expertise. Beyond being a talented engineer and an expert in the field of microphones, he is also a writer whose words carry a lot of influence. In that capacity I find his review to be impulsive and ill conceived. There is more than one way to state something and, in my opinion, he chose the most bombastic way to express his frustration with only one sample of the U67.
Old 22nd September 2022 | Show parent
  #581
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Zuewi's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattcollen ➡️
I have good news. My sales guy called today. Mine arrives tomorrow. It is a complicated story, which I won't air on the forum, but despite me being jumped in the line, my dealer honored my place through some bartering and etc. I should have it tomorrow or Friday. I can't wait. I will post some pictures when it is in my hands.
Samples please! :D We seen enough pics of it now :D
Old 22nd September 2022 | Show parent
  #582
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mattcollen's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuewi ➡️
Samples please! :D We seen enough pics of it now :D
It just arrived. I posted a couple of images on Instagram. I plan on doing some rough recordings in the morning. I’m on dog duty for the evening.
@ COMMS ounds <—- If you want to see a couple of pics. It is a surprisingly heavy mic for its size.
Old 23rd September 2022 | Show parent
  #583
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mattcollen's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuewi ➡️
Samples please! :D We seen enough pics of it now :D
I took my beagle to the basement studio and fired it up. My thoughts so far are as follows.

1. It has serious low end. A rumble/hi pass filter is necessary, even in the C setting (which is how mine is set).
2. It is very natural sounding (like a U67). I like it heaps more than the Frankenstein U47 I owned.
3. It seems laid back, classy, and mellow. It even made my bad singing voice less offensive.

If I can get some vocal takes that won’t completely humiliate me, I’ll share them tomorrow. Otherwise, I’ll wait until I get a real singer over here.
Old 23rd September 2022 | Show parent
  #584
Gear Addict
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattcollen ➡️
I took my beagle to the basement studio and fired it up. My thoughts so far are as follows.

1. It has serious low end. A rumble/hi pass filter is necessary, even in the C setting (which is how mine is set).
2. It is very natural sounding (like a U67). I like it heaps more than the Frankenstein U47 I owned.
3. It seems laid back, classy, and mellow. It even made my bad singing voice less offensive.

If I can get some vocal takes that won’t completely humiliate me, I’ll share them tomorrow. Otherwise, I’ll wait until I get a real singer over here.
Do you have the hi pass filter disabled? Have you tried switching it back in?
Old 23rd September 2022 | Show parent
  #585
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mattcollen's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightowl43 ➡️
Do you have the hi pass filter disabled? Have you tried switching it back in?
I don’t have it disabled. It offers plenty of bass for people who want or need that. It is a gorgeous sonically and visually.
Old 23rd September 2022 | Show parent
  #586
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mattcollen's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Okay, here is a very rough clip. I am NOT a singer, but you can get an idea of the M49V on my vocals. I apologize for my singing. There is no mastering, bus compression, or any of that.

The signal chain info is below.

It was quickly tracked in my control room.

Signal Chain:
Acoustic guitar: U67 ----> 1073----->Apogee Symphony MKII---> DAW (no compression)
Vocals: M49v ----> 1073-----> EC5b (175b clone)1-2db gain reduction----> Apogee Symphony MKII----> DAW

No bus compression, reverbs, or eqs were used just the 50hz high pass on the 1073 to take some bass out of the vocals.

https://soundcloud.com/mattcollencs/...social_sharing
Old 23rd September 2022 | Show parent
  #587
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mattcollen's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I plan to use it on all the vocals for a bigger production with real singers later this fall.
Old 23rd September 2022 | Show parent
  #588
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carloff's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattcollen ➡️
Okay, here is a very rough clip. I am NOT a singer, but you can get an idea of the M49V on my vocals. I apologize for my singing. There is no mastering, bus compression, or any of that.

The signal chain info is below.

It was quickly tracked in my control room.

Signal Chain:
Acoustic guitar: U67 ----> 1073----->Apogee Symphony MKII---> DAW (no compression)
Vocals: M49v ----> 1073-----> EC5b (175b clone)1-2db gain reduction----> Apogee Symphony MKII----> DAW

No bus compression, reverbs, or eqs were used just the 50hz high pass on the 1073 to take some bass out of the vocals.

https://soundcloud.com/mattcollencs/...social_sharing
Hmm your vocals are good. But the M49V here doesn't sound as I´m used to sound M49.
Old 23rd September 2022 | Show parent
  #589
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mattcollen's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by carloff ➡️
Hmm your vocals are good. But the M49V here doesn't sound as I´m used to sound M49.
It is probably the source material, my vocals. My vocals rarely play nice or typical with mics. Given how my voice typically translates, I am really excited to work with a great singer this fall.
Old 23rd September 2022 | Show parent
  #590
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattcollen ➡️
Okay, here is a very rough clip. I am NOT a singer, but you can get an idea of the M49V on my vocals. I apologize for my singing. There is no mastering, bus compression, or any of that.

The signal chain info is below.

It was quickly tracked in my control room.

Signal Chain:
Acoustic guitar: U67 ----> 1073----->Apogee Symphony MKII---> DAW (no compression)
Vocals: M49v ----> 1073-----> EC5b (175b clone)1-2db gain reduction----> Apogee Symphony MKII----> DAW

No bus compression, reverbs, or eqs were used just the 50hz high pass on the 1073 to take some bass out of the vocals.

https://soundcloud.com/mattcollencs/...social_sharing
that sounds lovely. Thanks for posting!
Old 23rd September 2022 | Show parent
  #591
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carloff's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattcollen ➡️
It is probably the source material, my vocals. My vocals rarely play nice or typical with mics. Given how my voice typically translates, I am really excited to work with a great singer this fall.
Or could be something on the chain.I do not know. It sounds actually well, but not as M49.
Old 23rd September 2022 | Show parent
  #592
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Wiggy Neve Slut's Avatar
 
🎧 20 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by carloff ➡️
Or could be something on the chain.I do not know. It sounds actually well, but not as M49.
I’d say just having a cursory listen but more 67 than 49?

Don’t get me wrong it’s a Neumann however, just not the big and melifluous you’re prolly used to also Carloff?
Old 23rd September 2022 | Show parent
  #593
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carloff's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggy Neve Slut ➡️
I’d say just having a cursory listen but more 67 than 49?

Don’t get me wrong it’s a Neumann however, just not the big and melifluous you’re prolly used to also Carloff?
Exactly! Like 67 with a bit of EQ and HP. The mostly reminds me sound of U87 inner tube mod
Old 23rd September 2022 | Show parent
  #594
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Zuewi's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Thanks for the clip Matt!
Wow!! first long awaited M49v real life demo we got now, very nice song and performance!!!
About the microphone sound in detail, not quite sure to judge yet with the first sample... possible with potential and nice but not jaw dropping for me personally (but no idea about your voice, acoustics, etc). Maybe something in the chain doesn't fit well like Carl mentioned. Maybe compressor, or high pass of the Neve.

Would maybe be interesting to hear the U67 on your voice and the M49v on the guitar with the same song, settings and distances as possible for a non scientific test. :D

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattcollen ➡️
Okay, here is a very rough clip. I am NOT a singer, but you can get an idea of the M49V on my vocals. I apologize for my singing. There is no mastering, bus compression, or any of that.

The signal chain info is below.

It was quickly tracked in my control room.

Signal Chain:
Acoustic guitar: U67 ----> 1073----->Apogee Symphony MKII---> DAW (no compression)
Vocals: M49v ----> 1073-----> EC5b (175b clone)1-2db gain reduction----> Apogee Symphony MKII----> DAW

No bus compression, reverbs, or eqs were used just the 50hz high pass on the 1073 to take some bass out of the vocals.

https://soundcloud.com/mattcollencs/...social_sharing

Last edited by Zuewi; 23rd September 2022 at 07:19 PM..
Old 23rd September 2022 | Show parent
  #595
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattcollen ➡️
Okay, here is a very rough clip. I am NOT a singer, but you can get an idea of the M49V on my vocals. I apologize for my singing. There is no mastering, bus compression, or any of that.

The signal chain info is below.

It was quickly tracked in my control room.

Signal Chain:
Acoustic guitar: U67 ----> 1073----->Apogee Symphony MKII---> DAW (no compression)
Vocals: M49v ----> 1073-----> EC5b (175b clone)1-2db gain reduction----> Apogee Symphony MKII----> DAW

No bus compression, reverbs, or eqs were used just the 50hz high pass on the 1073 to take some bass out of the vocals.

https://soundcloud.com/mattcollencs/...social_sharing
Sounds great, thanks for sharing!

I must ask: did you fall out of your chair after singing into the M49V?
Old 23rd September 2022 | Show parent
  #596
Gear Guru
 
chessparov2.0's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Matt that sounded awful.
Awfully GOOD.

You have a beautiful voice.
That's a gift.

Don't hide your light, under the bushel.
I look forward to hearing more from you,
whenever you see fit.

I encourage you to post that vocal in the Main Forum, the "What Mic Did You Use Today".
Partly as it's an inspired vocal, and more members will be aware of your voice.

NOT a singer? Now you sound like John Lennon!
Thanks, Chris
P.S. Does sound more 67-ish.
But that mic is a terrific fit for Matt.
Old 23rd September 2022 | Show parent
  #597
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toledo3's Avatar
 
🎧 20 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by carloff ➡️
Exactly! Like 67 with a bit of EQ and HP. The mostly reminds me sound of U87 inner tube mod
It sounds like a FLEA with a Neumann capsule.

I hear legitimate k47 sound in that sample, it’s that the hear amp doesn’t have quite the expected character. To my ear. I’m not sure what’s going on with the gain staging
in the sample, it’s maybe a bit hot/saturating at pre, but I haven’t listened on my monitors. If that is the mic headroom, then that’s interesting (I don’t believe it is though).

I would think someone should be able to make a recording they’d like or maybe love.

Matt, digging the material!
Old 23rd September 2022 | Show parent
  #598
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mattcollen's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by BDW42 ➡️
Sounds great, thanks for sharing!

I must ask: did you fall out of your chair after singing into the M49V?
I don’t think I’ve ever fallen out of my chair for any piece of gear. 🤣

To my ears, in my space, and with my lackluster voice, I think the mic is phenomenal. I am excited about incorporating it in a big production instead of a rushed work tape.

I was apprehensive about posting anything because I’m the only one on here who knows my space, the speakers in my space, and the text of the clip.

In my opinion, It is quite different from my U67 and the vintage m269c I owned, despite being in the same Neumann family and having some commonalities.

It has the same sparkle and shine of other K47 mics but with tons of velvety goodness. It is 3D, rich, and huge. The bottom is bigger than any U47 I have used. This is why I felt the need to high pass, step back from the mic a bit, and run the EC5b on the back end.

I think it is a clear winner. So, my hopes of selling it on Reverb for more than I paid for it have been dashed. :p

I am keeping it. I plan on reporting back and sharing full productions in the not so distant future.
Old 23rd September 2022 | Show parent
  #599
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mattcollen's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 ➡️
Matt that sounded awful.
Awfully GOOD.

You have a beautiful voice.
That's a gift.

Don't hide your light, under the bushel.
I look forward to hearing more from you,
whenever you see fit.

I encourage you to post that vocal in the Main Forum, the "What Mic Did You Use Today".
Partly as it's an inspired vocal, and more members will be aware of your voice.

NOT a singer? Now you sound like John Lennon!
Thanks, Chris
P.S. Does sound more 67-ish.
But that mic is a terrific fit for Matt.
Thanks, man.
Old 23rd September 2022 | Show parent
  #600
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mattcollen's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by toledo3 ➡️
It sounds like a FLEA with a Neumann capsule.

I hear legitimate k47 sound in that sample, it’s that the hear amp doesn’t have quite the expected character. To my ear. I’m not sure what’s going on with the gain staging
in the sample, it’s maybe a bit hot/saturating at pre, but I haven’t listened on my monitors. If that is the mic headroom, then that’s interesting (I don’t believe it is though).

I would think someone should be able to make a recording they’d like or maybe love.

Matt, digging the material!
Thanks. You are correct about the saturation; I pushed the 1073.
The mic has serious, clean headroom. Headroom is definitely not a concern for the new mic.
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