Quantcast
Engineering Steely Dan's GAUCHO (1980) - Interview with Elliot Scheiner - Page 7 - Gearspace.com
The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
Engineering Steely Dan's GAUCHO (1980) - Interview with Elliot Scheiner
Old 2 days ago | Show parent
  #181
Gear Maniac
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by telecode ➡️
I didn't see them that influenced by jazz, but I may be wrong.
Some of the horn parts were definitely jazz inspired but overall I think Chicago was influenced more by George Martin than anyone else. 'Got to get you into my life' production was the Chicago blueprint. Other stuff like 'when I'm 64' is obvious as well.
Old 2 days ago
  #182
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
I know music is subjective and with no real attachment to SD I listened to the album a couple of days ago.

Sure it sounds good but I really don't get it. The singing is quite bad. I can't personally stand the Dylan-uesq phrasing. Songwriting might be clever but not memorable.

Who was it aimed for when it was released? I usually like slick music but I dunno. I'm having a hard time liking it!

Someone please explain why you like SD. I don't mean it as being an a-hole. I'm actually interested
Old 2 days ago | Show parent
  #183
Lives for gear
 
telecode's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by crille_mannen ➡️
I know music is subjective and with no real attachment to SD I listened to the album a couple of days ago.

Sure it sounds good but I really don't get it. The singing is quite bad. I can't personally stand the Dylan-uesq phrasing. Songwriting might be clever but not memorable.

Who was it aimed for when it was released? I usually like slick music but I dunno. I'm having a hard time liking it!

Someone please explain why you like SD. I don't mean it as being an a-hole. I'm actually interested
Well.. thats a hard one to tackle. I can speak for myself. I hated Steely Dan music when I first heard it. I think it was Aja and that FM film track single that I first got exposed to them. I thought it was friggin weird music. As I got into their back catalog and their rock phase.. I became more and more of a fan. IMO, no one in rock and roll history sounds anything like them. They sort of occupy their own space.

They are kind of also linked at the belly with the Doobie Brothers in a way. If you become a fan of Jeff Skunk and Mike McDonald.. you sort of make your way to Steely Dan.

still one of the all time greatest guitar solos captured on record.

Old 2 days ago | Show parent
  #184
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by crille_mannen ➡️
Someone please explain why you like SD. I don't mean it as being an a-hole. I'm actually interested
Even the OP says he likes the "sound" of Gaucho, but I'm not sure he's ever said he likes their music.

Personally, I think their songs are pretty inaccessible, but some of their compositions (not counting the words) are really interesting. If you sit down and work your way through, say, "Aja," at the end of it you will have learned something.
Old 2 days ago
  #185
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Thanks guys!

I'm going to listen a bit more. I'm no stranger at listening to music that's isn't super accessible. In fact my favourite bands/artist are usually a bit "artsy". But it has allot to do with the vocals. If I don't like the vocals it's just way harder for me to get into it.

At first glance SD comes off as the worst kind of slick haha.. but who know they might become my new addiction :D
Old 2 days ago | Show parent
  #186
Lives for gear
 
telecode's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by crille_mannen ➡️
t.

At first glance SD comes off as the worst kind of slick haha.. but who know they might become my new addiction :D
Yeah. that's the sort of effect FM and Aja have. I still think their best records are (in no particular order):
- royal scam
- pretzel logic
- Countdown to Ecstasy

Jeff Skunk ripping it to shreds on Bodhisattva

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dgoRtDloQw
Old 2 days ago | Show parent
  #187
Lives for gear
 
burns46824's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by crille_mannen ➡️
I know music is subjective and with no real attachment to SD I listened to the album a couple of days ago.

Sure it sounds good but I really don't get it. The singing is quite bad. I can't personally stand the Dylan-uesq phrasing. Songwriting might be clever but not memorable.

Who was it aimed for when it was released? I usually like slick music but I dunno. I'm having a hard time liking it!

Someone please explain why you like SD. I don't mean it as being an a-hole. I'm actually interested
Different strokes. I know what you're saying about Donald Fagen's vocals, because they are so unusual, but I personally think his was the perfect voice to deliver those incredibly satirical and, at times, dark lyrics. His is the voice of the intellectual loner...not particularly "cool," but extremely observant and intelligent beyond most everyone else.

Donald Fagen's voice is akin to Neil Tennant's...you love it or you hate it.
Old 2 days ago | Show parent
  #188
Lives for gear
 
burns46824's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn ➡️
Even the OP says he likes the "sound" of Gaucho, but I'm not sure he's ever said he likes their music.
For the record, (pun intended), I love their music. Especially from THE ROYAL SCAM thru GAUCHO. However, I'm not into any of their stuff, or their solo works, after Donald Fagen's THE NIGHTFLY (1982).

My two favs are GAUCHO and THE NIGHTFLY, by a fair shot.

Last edited by burns46824; 2 days ago at 12:16 AM..
Old 2 days ago | Show parent
  #189
Gear Maniac
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by crille_mannen ➡️

Someone please explain why you like SD. I don't mean it as being an a-hole. I'm actually interested
IMO the reason they were so popular and successful is they were very different at the time and they wrote great hooks. Their production was very interesting. I also think they wrote very good lyrics and people connected with them. Their lyrics weren't groundbreaking or prophetic, but they weren't cliche like most rock bands at the time. Musically they were better than 90% of the bands at the time. It's probably a generational thing as well. FM radio DJs loved them in the 70s, that really helped push their record sales and popularity.

Don't forget you are on a production message board, Steely had great production so naturally people are hyping them here.
Old 2 days ago | Show parent
  #190
Lives for gear
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by crille_mannen ➡️
I really don't get it.
Who was it aimed for when it was released?
Someone please explain why you like SD
No mystery… those two guys were trying to please themselves.
I don’t think they “aimed” for anything else, or targeted a particular audience, or shoehorned stuff into the final product with a particular listening group in mind. Since they almost never performed live, I doubt they had any very specific idea as to what their buyers looked like or what “their” audience might have wanted.
What any individual says justifying why that individual liked SD is fairly irrelevant considering that the band sold millions upon millions of recordings.
I respected them as much or more than I liked them. I don’t have the impression that they gave much of a sh*t whether people liked them or not. They didn’t seem to be in any popularity contest, they were just popular.
Old 2 days ago | Show parent
  #191
Lives for gear
 
telecode's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
I think the OP posted a great interview and he got his earful. Steely Dan are a bit of a polarizing band. I don't think there are any right or wrong attitudes towards them. All views are sort of valid IMO. They have their die hard fans and they also have people that really don't dig them at all. I think it has to do with the fact that they don't quite fit easily into a genre.
Old 2 days ago | Show parent
  #192
Lives for gear
 
IanBSC's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumsound ➡️
I don't disagree, but I think a lot of the bad sound IS the mix. Even if you watch the Classic Albums on it, when Butch Vig is playing tracks transferred to PT from the 24-track it sounds better than what was released, imho.
Butch Vig has done a lot of incredible mixes. However, compare his version of "Smells Like Teen Spirit " with Andy Wallace's and the latter is much better. If they had used Butch Vig's version the song probably would not have been a hit.

Personally, I think "Nevermind" sounds great and has the right amount of musical impact for the type of music. Both tracking and mixing were done right. "In Utero" on the other hand...
Old 2 days ago | Show parent
  #193
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by burns46824 ➡️
For the record, (pun intended), I love their music. Especially from THE ROYAL SCAM thru GAUCHO. However, I'm not into any of their stuff, or their solo works, after Donald Fagen's THE NIGHTFLY (1982).

My two favs are GAUCHO and THE NIGHTFLY, by a fair shot.
How about Morph the Cat? Sonically imho this where SD could be as well. Same engineer, Grammy, etc.
Old 2 days ago
  #194
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
This thread made me listen long forgotten records. Crusaders Street Life, what a great sound and music!
Old 2 days ago | Show parent
  #195
Gear Guru
 
Drumsound's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by IanBSC ➡️
Butch Vig has done a lot of incredible mixes. However, compare his version of "Smells Like Teen Spirit " with Andy Wallace's and the latter is much better. If they had used Butch Vig's version the song probably would not have been a hit.

Personally, I think "Nevermind" sounds great and has the right amount of musical impact for the type of music. Both tracking and mixing were done right. "In Utero" on the other hand...
I only have the original, but really should get Butch's version. I NEVER liked the sound of the original, but connected with the SONGS!

ETA I just A/B them (on spotify---I know...) and Butch's mix KILLS. The AW mix has a nice effect thing on the Hello thing that I like, but everything else about the Vig mix I prefer. The guitars sound much more real, powerful and real. And the bass and drum relationship sounds much more like a rhythm section, two guys playing together in service of the foundation!

Last edited by Drumsound; 2 days ago at 06:47 AM..
Old 2 days ago | Show parent
  #196
Lives for gear
 
IanBSC's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumsound ➡️
I only have the original, but really should get Butch's version. I NEVER liked the sound of the original, but connected with the SONGS!
I feel bad to temporarily hijack a Steely Dan thread with Nirvana, but here is Butch's mix.

https://youtu.be/F9PQU7-PRTo

FWIW, I think the recent remasters sound better (if louder) than the original CD.
Old 2 days ago | Show parent
  #197
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
One weird thing -- right after the guitar intro when the band kicks in and rushes a smidge... in Andy's mix I notice it but it doesn't really bother me, while in Butch's mix it sounds like more of a mistake. Not sure why that is.

And I think cutting the opening vamp in half was a good idea, whether it was done at the mix stage or in mastering.
Old 2 days ago | Show parent
  #198
Gear Guru
 
Drumsound's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by IanBSC ➡️
I feel bad to temporarily hijack a Steely Dan thread with Nirvana, but here is Butch's mix.

https://youtu.be/F9PQU7-PRTo

FWIW, I think the recent remasters sound better (if louder) than the original CD.
Just edited my post. Thanks for the link though.
Old 2 days ago | Show parent
  #199
Lives for gear
 
telecode's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by IanBSC ➡️
I feel bad to temporarily hijack a Steely Dan thread with Nirvana, but here is Butch's mix.

https://youtu.be/F9PQU7-PRTo

FWIW, I think the recent remasters sound better (if louder) than the original CD.
Yup.. that pretty much derailed it.

I may be one of the few people on the planet that do not like any Nirvana music. I think it's linked to the fact that I saw them before they became big and they sucked and got booed. 87 or 88 or 89.. I can't remember now. I just remember being drunk with a bunch of hair metal guys and going -- 'Feek me.. Mickey.. Theze bend sakz! Dey kent play geetarz!!"

(I am a fan of Butch Vig and Garbage though).

Old 1 day ago | Show parent
  #200
Lives for gear
 
burns46824's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by temnov ➡️
How about Morph the Cat? Sonically imho this where SD could be as well. Same engineer, Grammy, etc.
I own it. A decently good record, but not so much my thing. My issue with DF's solo work after THE NIGHTFLY, and this is the same for TWO AGAINST NATURE and EVERYTHING MUST GO, is that the songwriting drastically changed from "classic Dan." Instead of the beautifully-voiced chord changes that became melodies in their own right, you just got a dominant nine chord for 8 bars. The music became too "beat oriented" for my taste, rather than harmonically oriented like "classic Dan." One example, amongst many, would be "Jack of Speed."

Somehow, I haven't listened to SUNKEN CONDOS, which I have heard really good things about, however.
Old 1 day ago | Show parent
  #201
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by burns46824 ➡️
I own it. A decently good record, but not so much my thing. My issue with DF's solo work after THE NIGHTFLY, and this is the same for TWO AGAINST NATURE and EVERYTHING MUST GO, is that the songwriting drastically changed from "classic Dan." Instead of the beautifully-voiced chord changes that became melodies in their own right, you just got a dominant nine chord for 8 bars. The music became too "beat oriented" for my taste, rather than harmonically oriented like "classic Dan." One example, amongst many, would be "Jack of Speed."

Somehow, I haven't listened to SUNKEN CONDOS, which I have heard really good things about, however.
I didn't like SUNKEN CONDOS as much as Morph the Cat, but that all is a personal taste. I've got most of SD records with DVD about recording AJA.

Sonically for me Gaucho is their #1 record, and Morph is the second one, although it is Fagens' solo. I also like to listen to both of Walter Becker solo albums. Whack and Circus, incredible work!
Old 1 day ago | Show parent
  #202
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by burns46824 ➡️
I own it. A decently good record, but not so much my thing. My issue with DF's solo work after THE NIGHTFLY, and this is the same for TWO AGAINST NATURE and EVERYTHING MUST GO, is that the songwriting drastically changed from "classic Dan." Instead of the beautifully-voiced chord changes that became melodies in their own right, you just got a dominant nine chord for 8 bars. The music became too "beat oriented" for my taste, rather than harmonically oriented like "classic Dan." One example, amongst many, would be "Jack of Speed."

Somehow, I haven't listened to SUNKEN CONDOS, which I have heard really good things about, however.
I love Aja and gaucho. Aja possibly being my favourite album of all time. I have to say Two against nature is such a fun album, Gaslighting Abby, What a shame about me and Cousin dupree are some of my fav dan tracks. The Snare is so explosive and ridiculously tight, it is almost farcical! Love DFs Vocal sound aswell, bright but not harsh. Maybe not the high artistry achieved on Gaucho and Aja. Still a fantastic album in my view!
Thanks again for the great interview and sparking all this SD chat !
Old 22 hours ago | Show parent
  #203
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by temnov ➡️
This thread made me listen long forgotten records. Crusaders Street Life, what a great sound and music!
Speaking of The Crusaders; I was doing a jam session at a friends house in Detroit back in the 70's, on break he played several Crusaders tracks. That was my first time being turned onto Larry Carlton, I was totally knocked out.

After the session ended his girlfriend came home from work. To my surprise she turned out to be the organ player in a horn/ Chicago type band I was in with a few years earlier in High School.

She worked at recorded store & had a stack of album cut-outs under her arm, she gave a copy to each of us at the session. She said to me 'I think you'll like this one'..it was Katy Lied, I hadn't heard it yet...that was a memorable day.

Sorry for being OT...Elliot lives down the road from me, don't know him personally but am in awe of his work. I use several tracks from Gaucho as refs...

Thanks to the OP for posting this interview.
Old 17 hours ago | Show parent
  #204
Lives for gear
 
Sharp11's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ceemusic ➡️
Speaking of The Crusaders; I was doing a jam session at a friends house in Detroit back in the 70's, on break he played several Crusaders tracks. That was my first time being turned onto Larry Carlton, I was totally knocked out.

After the session ended his girlfriend came home from work. To my surprise she turned out to be the organ player in a horn/ Chicago type band I was in with a few years earlier in High School.

She worked at recorded store & had a stack of album cut-outs under her arm, she gave a copy to each of us at the session. She said to me 'I think you'll like this one'..it was Katy Lied, I hadn't heard it yet...that was a memorable day.

Sorry for being OT...Elliot lives down the road from me, don't know him personally but am in awe of his work. I use several tracks from Gaucho as refs...

Thanks to the OP for posting this interview.
You live in my town!
Old 13 hours ago | Show parent
  #205
Lives for gear
 
deuc647's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I dont get the dislike of this album, I heard gaucho and aja back to back and there is no competition, gaucho sound F$&#ing amazing. One of the best albums ive heard tbh. Thanks apple loseless audio
Old 11 hours ago | Show parent
  #206
Gear Guru
 
Drumsound's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by deuc647 ➡️
I dont get the dislike of this album, I heard gaucho and aja back to back and there is no competition, gaucho sound F$&#ing amazing. One of the best albums ive heard tbh. Thanks apple loseless audio
I much prefer the songs on Aja.
📝 Reply

Similar Threads

Thread / Thread Starter Replies / Views Last Post
replies: 69 views: 13449
Avatar for Mix Master
Mix Master 3rd February 2010
replies: 120 views: 52919
Avatar for Stéphane
Stéphane 11th February 2017
replies: 28720 views: 3038317
Avatar for AcusticaCM
AcusticaCM 56 minutes ago
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearspace Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…

Forum Jump
Forum Jump