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Vintage Neve. Belclere vs Marinair transformers
Old 12th April 2021
  #1
Here for the gear
 
Vintage Neve. Belclere vs Marinair transformers

Hey Guys! I was wondering what the big difference is between the belclere and the marinair transformer. I hear credible people disregarding belclere without further elaboration.

What is the sonic difference.
Does belclere sound much or little alike the marinair.

Why did Neve start using belclere in the late 1970s.

The coolest thing would be if anyone had both a Vintage Neve with marinair and another with belclere, whom can send a sine wave thru them and compare a sonic spectrum analysis?

Many questions, and thanks for tuning in.
Let me hear what you think.

Love from Bob
Old 12th April 2021
  #2
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Oldone's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
From this article https://www.audiochocolate.com.au/fr...the-neve-1073/

I get the impression that it would be the sonic difference between the 1073 vs the 31102 and you could probably track at least a source sound for either one on Youtube. That's all I got.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #3
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voodoo4u's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Some people like to dive into all the little minutiae about the transformers on Neve pre's and some, years ago, with influential opinions decided that Beclere transformers were inferior. Mostly nonsense IMHO. In my experience, the mic pre's that Neve used the Belceres in are maybe not as coloured as the older pre's with Marinairs, but they still have a very solid sound. I think the bad reputation of the Belcleres probably comes more from the reputation of the products they were used in rather than an actual issue with the transformers.

If I'm not mistaken, Neve started using Belclere around the early '80's and I believe I read somewhere that in the beginning, the early transformers may have had an issue with ringing (Belclere rings like a bell), but these problems were solved early on. You'd find Belcleres all through 81 and 82 series consoles, 33609C compressors and I think maybe right up to the "V" consoles.

I have an old 82 series console, a 33609C and a pair of 1073's. It's clear to me they're all more similar than different. Circuit design, (class A vs AB or B) probably plays a bigger role in the sound of the pre's than the brand of transformer.

I'd be happy to send you a sine wave taken from each. Be specific about what you want. 10 seconds of 1k at -12db? I'm thinking pink or white noise might be better.

Last edited by voodoo4u; 4 weeks ago at 01:21 AM.. Reason: more info
Old 4 weeks ago | Show parent
  #4
Here for the gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by voodoo4u ➡️
Some people like to dive into all the little minutiae about the transformers on Neve pre's and some, years ago, with influential opinions decided that Beclere transformers were inferior. Mostly nonsense IMHO. In my experience, the mic pre's that Neve used the Belceres in are maybe not as coloured as the older pre's with Marinairs, but they still have a very solid sound. I think the bad reputation of the Belcleres probably comes more from the reputation of the products they were used in rather than an actual issue with the transformers.

If I'm not mistaken, Neve started using Belclere around the early '80's and I believe I read somewhere that in the beginning, the early transformers may have had an issue with ringing (Belclere rings like a bell), but these problems were solved early on. You'd find Belcleres all through 81 and 82 series consoles, 33609C compressors and I think maybe right up to the "V" consoles.

I have an old 82 series console, a 33609C and a pair of 1073's. It's clear to me they're all more similar than different. Circuit design, (class A vs AB or B) probably plays a bigger role in the sound of the pre's than the brand of transformer.

I'd be happy to send you a sine wave taken from each. Be specific about what you want. 10 seconds of 1k at -12db? I'm thinking pink or white noise might be better.
Wow nice voodoo4u! Thank you very much for elaborating on this!!

I would really like to see a screenshot of a audio spectrum analyse. I don't know which sine or noise would be best for this. Just so you can see similarities or differences between the modules. If the 1073 is more mid heavy. And maybe run a drum loop thru both of them to hear the difference. Sorry If I ask for too much.
Thanks again for your answer and time.

Kind regards and good vibes - Bob
Old 4 weeks ago
  #5
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voodoo4u's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Here are some files you can analyze. I decided sweep tones are probably going to be the most revealing. They're both recorded at around -12db left side only because the pre's were mono. Even looking at the waveforms, I can see an interesting difference. It seems the higher frequencies on the console pre diminish slightly while the file actually gets a little louder on the high frequencies of the 1073. This matches what I hear in the studio. The console seems to me to be a tad warmer than the 1073. We can't necessarily attribute this to just the transformers though.

Check it out and give us your feedback. I forgot to mention that the sweep tone was recorded at mic level and input to be sure to capture the input balancing transformer in each pre. I believe a line input on both pre's bypasses the transformers.
Attached Files

Neve 8232 Console Sweep tone01.wav (1.81 MB, 124 views)

Neve 1073 Sweep Tone.wav (1.74 MB, 112 views)


Last edited by voodoo4u; 4 weeks ago at 04:52 PM..
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