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Gear that gave you the "Meh..." Factor
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #481
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Is this thread morphing into the 'The normaI way/the GS way' thread, or is it mereIy my mind pIaying trix on me?
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #482
Gear Addict
 
drsaamah's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by zsarbomba ➡️
From ATR magnetic. For all the math geeks thinking digital plugs are now superior to tape:
"ATR Magnetics
NOTHING SOUNDS LIKE TAPE
WHY DOES MUSIC RECORDED ON ANALOG TAPE SOUND SO GOOD?
To understand why, a professional tape recorder provides the most lifelike reproduction revolves around a couple of important factors. The key lies in the inherent technology of the tape itself. Audio tape in use during the 1950s and ’60s provided approximately 65,000,000 magnetic particles per second of recording a quarter inch format at 15 inches per second (ips) tape speed. Each magnetic oxide particle or groups of particles takes on either a north or south orientation after exiting the recording head. Starting to sound like digital bit stream? Well yes and no. However there is one huge difference between analog tape recordings and even the best digital recordings.

RESOLUTION
The highest digital resolution today offers 4,608,000 bits switching per second. Not bad. Big improvement over the standard Red Book CD but it is not even close to sub-micron particle resolution of ATR Master Tape.

RANDOM PARTICLE STACKING
Quarter inch, two track ATR Master Tape running at 15 inches per second (ips) involves approximately 80,000,000 oriented and randomly stacked particles per track second. It’s not just the particle count but the random stacking that turns this super binary resolution into pure analog playback. This is why even a narrow track width recording still sounds so detailed despite the lower surface area"
i will bet my life that you can't hear the difference in that level of resolution. if so, then I'm sure you'll be first in line to purchase the first 392 KHz converters that get put on the market. And then 784 KHz a few years later. And then....
Either way, this argument also fails to understand the interpolation that occurs in a converter. Your DAC doesn't spit out discreet points of sounds at the frequency of sample rate. There is 2nd and 3rd order interpolations that occur that do a remarkable "connecting the dots", if you will. The worst case outcome being the smallest amount of intersample distortion.
Analog is and will always be technically higher-resolution. But I'm not entertaining the notion that anyone can hear it. If you disagree, there's probably 100 threads on this forum where members are arguing endlessly about what resolution is good enough.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #483
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by drsaamah ➡️
Either way, this argument also fails to understand the interpolation that occurs in a converter. Your DAC doesn't spit out discreet points of sounds at the frequency of sample rate. There is 2nd and 3rd order interpolations that occur that do a remarkable "connecting the dots", if you will.
Interpolation/zero stuffing is typically a way to cut cost related corners and still have "acceptable" accuracy at the Nyquist rate, while requiring less internal circuitry in the ADC/DAC itself. Interpolation is often a function of reducing computational complexity, as an interpolated/ zero-stuffed signal can be "recovered" to the original signal by simply low passing at the original sampling frequency.


It is still bandlimited to the original sample rate. It just has less truncation and quantization errors for most implementations when compared to a non-interpolated design using identical hardware.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #484
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by drsaamah ➡️
imagine if we had this forum 70 years ago...
"everything on tape sounds so meh. at least record to wax cylinder and then transfer to tape"
the "magic" of tape can be reduced to mathematics. plugins have been and will continue to get better and better. and even then, i will not entertain anybody who thinks recording on a portastudio and then bouncing to the DAW adds anything except a bunch mud. the tape machines used in corporate studios were the best technology of the time. any old magnetic tape isn't going to sound like that.
wow a lot of people sure wanted to get some feelings about cassettes off their chests. whilst we are on that, im happy for bands to sell records on whatever medium they can and want to. that revenue comes right back to studios..

i was assuming when we are talking "tape" on a forum of this quality the default is reel to reel. high hats, trumpets, snares in particular, and bass all sound way better off a good tape machine to my ears and the accumulation builds with the size of the band.

if there's the budget for tape, i usually track the string section or the odd guitar OD in digital in a separate studio later but the real heart of a band is highly preferable to my ears on tape. ive only had the budget to mixdown onto tape once so i cant really vouch for that over a transfer to daw.

each to their own though, make the music that sounds good to you
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #485
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seamoss ➡️
To get things back on point,

FM synthesis of any kind is terrible. I own way too many of the classics and they all kinda suck.

DX7? The only thing I want to do is play the bass line from "Take my Breath Away"
dx7 is nasty but there's that 1% of the time where someone just makes the perfect melody/patch combo in a track and it's like the weird-looking person at the party you can't help but fancy
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #486
Lives for gear
 
Paul_G's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mondegreen_ ➡️
i was assuming when we are talking "tape" on a forum of this quality the default is reel to reel. high hats, trumpets, snares in particular, and bass all sound way better off a good tape machine to my ears and the accumulation builds with the size of the band.

if there's the budget for tape, i usually track the string section or the odd guitar OD in digital in a separate studio later but the real heart of a band is highly preferable to my ears on tape. ive only had the budget to mixdown onto tape once so i cant really vouch for that over a transfer to daw.
Strings and guitar are two of the instruments I'd historically put on tape.
That and vocals. It's the high frequencies that tape soothes for me.
I have no problems with pretty much anything else being tracked to PT.
Apart from maybe cymbals but I don't track them with the kit anyway.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #487
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mondegreen_ ➡️
dx7 is nasty but there's that 1% of the time where someone just makes the perfect melody/patch combo in a track and it's like the weird-looking person at the party you can't help but fancy
Bah. Heathens. Yamaha oldschool fm is a gorgeous world of husky pads, filthy house organs and kinky clangery. And it always has superb ratio of "emotion caused vs mix real estate eaten up". One day I'll snag that 816.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #488
Gear Head
 
god1968's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by TJe ➡️
The Moog Voyager isn't analog?You find it mega super meh because of the digital envelopes?
Generally sound was depressingly under class all over and user interface was horrible.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #489
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by god1968 ➡️
Generally sound was depressingly under class all over and user interface was horrible.
Agree. The onIy thing that synth exceIs at is uebermassive sub bass, but not even in a cIassy manner, everything eIse 100% meh.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #490
Lives for gear
 
MRSEED's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 ➡️
Bah. Heathens. Yamaha oldschool fm is a gorgeous world of husky pads, filthy house organs and kinky clangery. And it always has superb ratio of "emotion caused vs mix real estate eaten up". One day I'll snag that 816.
The mk1 has a fantastic hefty thick sound, and the dx7ii although cleaner sounding had the extra functionality of layering several patches to make complex sounds. Dx7ii made its way onto ground breaking soundtrack work like Akira ost!

The DX7 is a very misunderstood synth, Brian Eno (and others) pushed it beyond its cheesy presets. It was a pig for most mere mortals to program.

Tx816 is a beast, I found one in a Belgium flea market 3 years ago, bought a new suitcase and carted it back to London on Eurostar. My daughter was about to be born so rather than get too besotted with the TX i flipped it for a quick £500 profit.

Then theres the D50, gets the same disrespect but is actually a hugely more interesting synth that most currently made, with a massive sound.

In reality there are very very few truly bad synths, just people who can’t program them.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #491
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by MRSEED ➡️
The mk1 has a fantastic hefty thick sound, and the dx7ii although cleaner sounding had the extra functionality of layering several patches to make complex sounds. Dx7ii made its way onto ground breaking soundtrack work like Akira ost!

The DX7 is a very misunderstood synth, Brian Eno (and others) pushed it beyond its cheesy presets. It was a pig for most mere mortals to program.

Tx816 is a beast, I found one in a Belgium flea market 3 years ago, bought a new suitcase and carted it back to London on Eurostar. My daughter was about to be born so rather than get too besotted with the TX i flipped it for a quick £500 profit.

Then theres the D50, gets the same disrespect but is actually a hugely more interesting synth that most currently made, with a massive sound.

In reality there are very very few truly bad synths, just people who can’t program them.
There is Patchbase for that......with the beautifuI 'seIect which parameters you wouId Iike to throw the dice on' randomize function......FM heaven :-)
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #492
Lives for gear
 
MRSEED's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by god1968 ➡️
Generally sound was depressingly under class all over and user interface was horrible.
I’ve never been drawn to it, but when it came out there wasn’t much else on the shelves to count as competition, it looked like a updated Model D with patch memory, that was enough for many buyers. these days Behringer’s £300 Moog sounds ‘better’ its a fiercer market.

And yet its been in countless hit records, so its clearly useable.

Also became a good performance synth for many, because of patch memory.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #493
TJe
Lives for gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by god1968 ➡️
Generally sound was depressingly under class all over and user interface was horrible.
Ok,thank you for your answer.
I wanted the Voyager for a very long time,but I have never had a chance to play with one in person because I haven't found any interesting deal second hand localy.

So I bought a new Subsequent37 instead.Did you compare both the Subsequent and the Voyager side by side?
What do you think about the Subsequent37?
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #494
Lives for gear
 
MRSEED's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 ➡️
There is Patchbase for that......with the beautifuI 'seIect which parameters you wouId Iike to throw the dice on' randomize function......FM heaven :-)
Yeah these things are really improving!
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #495
Lives for gear
 
badmark's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by TJe ➡️
Ok,thank you for your answer.
I wanted the Voyager for a very long time,but I have never had a chance to play with one in person because I haven't found any interesting deal second hand localy.

So I bought a new Subsequent37 instead.Did you compare both the Subsequent and the Voyager side by side?
What do you think about the Subsequent37?
Played a Sub37 and a Roland System 8 side by side and it's not your purchase that went swiftly into the meh box.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #496
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Guys Guys Guys!!

I'm pretty sure nobody here cares about your synths.
Let's get back to real gear.


I'm having a hard time liking the new 421s especially on high gain guitars. Old ones are lacking the hard spike in the top end and are more creamy.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #497
Lives for gear
 
MRSEED's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevelous ➡️
Guys Guys Guys!!

I'm pretty sure nobody here cares about your synths.
Let's get back to real gear.


I'm having a hard time liking the new 421s especially on high gain guitars. Old ones are lacking the hard spike in the top end and are more creamy.
But everyone has already complained about all the classic workhorse gear professional studios have happily used for years - we are now complaining about synths that made countless no1 records!!!

Keep up
Old 1 week ago
  #498
Gear Addict
 
synthetic's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I had a Voyager for a few years but never really bonded with it. I flipped it and got a MIDImoog, the racked vintage Minimoog, and wow what a difference. That mini gets used on everything. Country tunes, whatever, the last note gets doubled with the mini for instant bigness.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #499
Lives for gear
 
ionian's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by synthetic ➡️
That mini gets used on everything. Country tunes, whatever,
This you?

Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #500
Lives for gear
 
sourpatch's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_G ➡️
I can't stand hipster cassette culture.
Hey hey hey now, I've built a career out of it lol (I wish I was kidding).
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #501
Gear Guru
 
Chris, maybe it's just time to unwind.

Last night my next door neighbor (a Mime), called the cops on me.
I was playing a blank cassette full blast!
Chris
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #502
Lives for gear
 
64gtoboy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by MRSEED ➡️
The mk1 has a fantastic hefty thick sound, and the dx7ii although cleaner sounding had the extra functionality of layering several patches to make complex sounds. Dx7ii made its way onto ground breaking soundtrack work like Akira ost!

The DX7 is a very misunderstood synth, Brian Eno (and others) pushed it beyond its cheesy presets. It was a pig for most mere mortals to program.

Tx816 is a beast, I found one in a Belgium flea market 3 years ago, bought a new suitcase and carted it back to London on Eurostar. My daughter was about to be born so rather than get too besotted with the TX i flipped it for a quick £500 profit.

Then theres the D50, gets the same disrespect but is actually a hugely more interesting synth that most currently made, with a massive sound.

In reality there are very very few truly bad synths, just people who can’t program them.
I had the "meh" for the DX7 until I started routing it through a bass amp and mic'ing that. I still think it sounds lousy recorded direct.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #503
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by 64gtoboy ➡️
I had the "meh" for the DX7 until I started routing it through a bass amp and mic'ing that. I still think it sounds lousy recorded direct.
It's a raw vegetable, not a ready meal. Takes fx and turns them into worlds like a king.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #504
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by MRSEED ➡️
But everyone has already complained about all the classic workhorse gear professional studios have happily used for years - we are now complaining about synths that made countless no1 records!!!

Keep up
No but seriously, no one cares about the synths.
Please don't ruin this really interesting thread.

Everybody here knows you can make hit records with ****ty gear, but it's still really important to know that there is bad, or not so good gear out there that everyone glorify and uses daily, which people should know the truth about.

These synths you are arguing about here are not interesting to most of us because liking or hating a synth is soooo subjective. When 30 guys here say the don't like U87Ai, there is actually some useful knowledge about that.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #505
Lives for gear
 
MRSEED's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevelous ➡️
No but seriously, no one cares about the synths.
Please don't ruin this really interesting thread.

Everybody here knows you can make hit records with ****ty gear, but it's still really important to know that there is bad, or not so good gear out there that everyone glorify and uses daily, which people should know the truth about.

These synths you are arguing about here are not interesting to most of us because liking or hating a synth is soooo subjective. When 30 guys here say the don't like U87Ai, there is actually some useful knowledge about that.
i draw a bit of a line at telling people what to post and what to not post.

I think this long thread can handle a synth interlude
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #506
Lives for gear
 
MRSEED's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 64gtoboy ➡️
I had the "meh" for the DX7 until I started routing it through a bass amp and mic'ing that. I still think it sounds lousy recorded direct.
i feel that way about the Yamaha SY77/SY99, I also find most David Smith polys a bit boring and polite (meh), but no one ever agrees with me on that - literally no one.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #507
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by MRSEED ➡️
i draw a bit of a line at telling people what to post and what to not post.

I think this long thread can handle a synth interlude
I just don't see anyone else talking about Instruments in this thread.
Just like me bashing on a Gibson Les Paul and saying Stratocaster is better.
Old 1 week ago
  #508
Lives for gear
 
toledo3's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Something I am ultimately extremely meh about is the audioscape bus comp I have, not to mention the company itself.

But apparently I can’t say why even though it’s not against the rules here, because one of the mods doesn’t like it.

So, that’s…something. Can’t say I’ve run into that before during the over fifteen years I’ve been a member of the forum.
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #509
Lives for gear
 
MRSEED's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevelous ➡️
I just don't see anyone else talking about Instruments in this thread.
Just like me bashing on a Gibson Les Paul and saying Stratocaster is better.
oh its just me talking about synths on this thread is it?
Old 1 week ago
  #510
Gear Addict
 
drsaamah's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
yeah i don't get the facism, let the synth kids talk about their synths. if you want to complain about les pauls versus strats, have at it. i'll be right there with you in fact. strats ftw (or better, G&L Legacy!).
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