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Old 11th January 2021 | Show parent
  #151
Registered User
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted 26d6446 ➡️
Cheu is in every thread. Even ones that have nothing to do with atc. There’s obviously a motive.
Well, I think the only motive is that he has worked with them for many years, loves them, and feels no need to upgrade. What else is he supposed to say? As Brad Lunde has said, ATC doesn't need to pay for recommendations. Unless its small army of users is delusional, they must be doing something right.
Old 11th January 2021 | Show parent
  #152
Deleted 26d6446
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Galt ➡️
Well, I think the only motive is that he has worked with them for many years, loves them, and feels no need to upgrade. What else is he supposed to say? As Brad Lunde has said, ATC doesn't need to pay for recommendations. Unless its small army of users is delusional, they must be doing something right.
When you don’t endorse it makes sense to have something like this in forums. Every company needs endorsement. Atc is no different
Old 11th January 2021 | Show parent
  #153
Gear Addict
 
just_manu's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I think cheu is only trying to let us know how he likes the atc speakers. I wish I could do the same someday. At the moment, I'm still on my search, but getting closer day after day.

Thank you all for all your comments.
Old 11th January 2021 | Show parent
  #154
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Don't forget than nobody can listen with your ears and your brain.
Old 5th July 2021
  #155
Deleted 26d6446
Guest
I wouldn’t take anything that guy says about studio monitors seriously. He just copied and pasted that comment about ex-machina in every thread he’s in. Dutch n Dutch, new speaker thread and hedd thread. It’s time to delete my account lol. Too many dealer affiliates in here to have an honest conversation

Last edited by Deleted 26d6446; 5th July 2021 at 03:00 PM..
Old 4th August 2021 | Show parent
  #156
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Had a demo of the Quasars recently, didn't hear the pulsars but can confirm they blew away demos of Barefoots, Neumanns, ATC and Focals for me. I mostly write produce and mix my own music and clarity, detail and tonal balance are really important. The extremely large sweet spot was also incredibly impressive as I move around my studio alot working with different gear. The fact the stereo image detail was so transparent in this respect sold me over the other speakers I've been demoing the last few months.
Old 14th August 2021 | Show parent
  #157
Gear Addict
 
just_manu's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
After a long time, I'm giving my impressions once I've had the chance to try and work on a lot of speakers.

The most obvious thing I'v learnt is that, once I've tried sealed speakers (in this case the k&h o300), the majority (if not all) of the ported speakers sound blurry and undefined to me making me miss the tightness and precision of sealed design a lot. I've came to the conclusion this is what make me dislike almost the majority of speakers i try. The problem I find with the new kh 310 is that they sound harsh, not close to the warmth the old o300 delivered. By the way, their low end is the most useful low end I've listened to in any speaker.

As you know I tried the scm25a. Their sonic representation was very mid forward and had a very very nice and usable muscle in the low mid range. I really liked them when I covered their ports with their foam. When I did it the lows were tight and robust and very informative, but for me, they were not enough and I would have needed subs. I also found I needed to eq them too much to take those abrasive mids away and I didn't find it cool. Highs were simply correct. In my opinion, not worth what they cost. Passed away.

I had the chance to have in my room the 8351a again during 3 weeks. (Jantex, I invoke you). I repeat what I always say, they have the best stereo image I've ever heard (much more than d&d 8c, atc, pulsars or focal trio to name a few). Their punch is from another planet and plain and simple, they sound freaking incredible. Guess their sonic representation is just perfect. The problem??? What I always say about them: they don't translate well, at leasts in my case. They tend to make things better than they are, making me undercompress a lot of information since they sound good anyway. I think these speakers would be much better without the rear port. My old o300 were the oposite, they told very clearly when you were going too hard in dynamics because they started breaking, that was a very useful tool.

I tried the 8c as well. They sounded awesome (but a little bit cold), but to me, too awesome to be a mixing tool. That coldness changed a bit when low latency mode was activated. Productions I did on them were the worst sounding I've made in the last years. Don't get the point when some people compare them to atc scm50.

(Must say, while waiting for another pair of monitors I made a couple of very nice sounding mixed using a pair of BM5 mkiii, not joking xD)

There are other speakers I would have loved to try such as barefoots 01, but their availability in Europe is not at it's best in these moments.

The circle is finally closing around Amphion line (not sure the two 15 or the one 18) and the kh 310, both with sub systems. I will get them both after vacations and will compare.

To be said, I'm eqing all the speakers using audio hijack and inserting a Pro Q3 to make them ideal to my ears (remember, all ears are different).

Lots of regards to all of you and thank you for maintaining this thread so alive and useful!
Old 16th August 2021 | Show parent
  #158
Deleted 26d6446
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by just_manu ➡️
After a long time, I'm giving my impressions once I've had the chance to try and work on a lot of speakers.

The most obvious thing I'v learnt is that, once I've tried sealed speakers (in this case the k&h o300), the majority (if not all) of the ported speakers sound blurry and undefined to me making me miss the tightness and precision of sealed design a lot. I've came to the conclusion this is what make me dislike almost the majority of speakers i try. The problem I find with the new kh 310 is that they sound harsh, not close to the warmth the old o300 delivered. By the way, their low end is the most useful low end I've listened to in any speaker.

As you know I tried the scm25a. Their sonic representation was very mid forward and had a very very nice and usable muscle in the low mid range. I really liked them when I covered their ports with their foam. When I did it the lows were tight and robust and very informative, but for me, they were not enough and I would have needed subs. I also found I needed to eq them too much to take those abrasive mids away and I didn't find it cool. Highs were simply correct. In my opinion, not worth what they cost. Passed away.

I had the chance to have in my room the 8351a again during 3 weeks. (Jantex, I invoke you). I repeat what I always say, they have the best stereo image I've ever heard (much more than d&d 8c, atc, pulsars or focal trio to name a few). Their punch is from another planet and plain and simple, they sound freaking incredible. Guess their sonic representation is just perfect. The problem??? What I always say about them: they don't translate well, at leasts in my case. They tend to make things better than they are, making me undercompress a lot of information since they sound good anyway. I think these speakers would be much better without the rear port. My old o300 were the oposite, they told very clearly when you were going too hard in dynamics because they started breaking, that was a very useful tool.

I tried the 8c as well. They sounded awesome (but a little bit cold), but to me, too awesome to be a mixing tool. That coldness changed a bit when low latency mode was activated. Productions I did on them were the worst sounding I've made in the last years. Don't get the point when some people compare them to atc scm50.

(Must say, while waiting for another pair of monitors I made a couple of very nice sounding mixed using a pair of BM5 mkiii, not joking xD)

There are other speakers I would have loved to try such as barefoots 01, but their availability in Europe is not at it's best in these moments.

The circle is finally closing around Amphion line (not sure the two 15 or the one 18) and the kh 310, both with sub systems. I will get them both after vacations and will compare.

To be said, I'm eqing all the speakers using audio hijack and inserting a Pro Q3 to make them ideal to my ears (remember, all ears are different).

Lots of regards to all of you and thank you for maintaining this thread so alive and useful!
So, after demoing all those speakers what are you finding you’re willing to compromise? Why not keep the o300 and pair with something like one15 and Neumann sub (w. o300)?
Old 30th August 2021 | Show parent
  #159
Gear Nut
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by just_manu ➡️
After a long time, I'm giving my impressions once I've had the chance to try and work on a lot of speakers.

The most obvious thing I'v learnt is that, once I've tried sealed speakers (in this case the k&h o300), the majority (if not all) of the ported speakers sound blurry and undefined to me making me miss the tightness and precision of sealed design a lot. I've came to the conclusion this is what make me dislike almost the majority of speakers i try. The problem I find with the new kh 310 is that they sound harsh, not close to the warmth the old o300 delivered. By the way, their low end is the most useful low end I've listened to in any speaker.

As you know I tried the scm25a. Their sonic representation was very mid forward and had a very very nice and usable muscle in the low mid range. I really liked them when I covered their ports with their foam. When I did it the lows were tight and robust and very informative, but for me, they were not enough and I would have needed subs. I also found I needed to eq them too much to take those abrasive mids away and I didn't find it cool. Highs were simply correct. In my opinion, not worth what they cost. Passed away.

I had the chance to have in my room the 8351a again during 3 weeks. (Jantex, I invoke you). I repeat what I always say, they have the best stereo image I've ever heard (much more than d&d 8c, atc, pulsars or focal trio to name a few). Their punch is from another planet and plain and simple, they sound freaking incredible. Guess their sonic representation is just perfect. The problem??? What I always say about them: they don't translate well, at leasts in my case. They tend to make things better than they are, making me undercompress a lot of information since they sound good anyway. I think these speakers would be much better without the rear port. My old o300 were the oposite, they told very clearly when you were going too hard in dynamics because they started breaking, that was a very useful tool.

I tried the 8c as well. They sounded awesome (but a little bit cold), but to me, too awesome to be a mixing tool. That coldness changed a bit when low latency mode was activated. Productions I did on them were the worst sounding I've made in the last years. Don't get the point when some people compare them to atc scm50.

(Must say, while waiting for another pair of monitors I made a couple of very nice sounding mixed using a pair of BM5 mkiii, not joking xD)

There are other speakers I would have loved to try such as barefoots 01, but their availability in Europe is not at it's best in these moments.

The circle is finally closing around Amphion line (not sure the two 15 or the one 18) and the kh 310, both with sub systems. I will get them both after vacations and will compare.

To be said, I'm eqing all the speakers using audio hijack and inserting a Pro Q3 to make them ideal to my ears (remember, all ears are different).

Lots of regards to all of you and thank you for maintaining this thread so alive and useful!
The only speakers I’ve not tried that are of interest for me are the Geithan and Qii3. Have you tried any of these? Also have you tried the Ex Machina Quasars? (Not pulsars). Quasars are way ahead for me so far. I have Barefoots and they smoke them in every way.
Old 18th September 2021 | Show parent
  #160
Gear Addict
 
just_manu's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted 26d6446 ➡️
So, after demoing all those speakers what are you finding you’re willing to compromise? Why not keep the o300 and pair with something like one15 and Neumann sub (w. o300)?
Kh 310 are staying (I explain in the next post why) and now guessing what will be better as second pair for mixing tool, the ns10 or the one15.
Old 18th September 2021 | Show parent
  #161
Gear Addict
 
just_manu's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
I've been producing on a pair of 8351A during a month. Me and my mates were really happy with how the tracks were sounding and we were ready to send them to the company. I brought to my studio the kh 310 again and we tested the songs on them just for curiosity. I must say it was a huge wtf in all of us. We couldn't believe what we were hearing, seriously. The songs sounded like crap, like poor demos, can't find words to describe the feeling. The lows sounded blurry, totally undefined and really boomy, the dynamics were out of control. I've had the same experience I had two years ago when I had the chance to work on them. I've remade the mixes on the kh 310 and they sound great on all other systems.

I'm keeping the kh 310, these are the best mix tool I have found, better than any other I've had the chance to use. Must say they are not fun at all, these are just that, amazing mixing tools.

God knows I tried, xD, but for me the Genelec story has finally ended. In my opinion, they lie like crazy.
Old 19th September 2021 | Show parent
  #162
Gear Head
 
Go and get the kh750 with MA1 for your kh310. I’m worked the last six years on the Neumann’s. Adding the sub to rhe 310 and correct the phase wirh MA1 was the best decision IMO. Give it a try some day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by just_manu ➡️
I've been producing on a pair of 8351A during a month. Me and my mates were really happy with how the tracks were sounding and we were ready to send them to the company. I brought to my studio the kh 310 again and we tested the songs on them just for curiosity. I must say it was a huge wtf in all of us. We couldn't believe what we were hearing, seriously. The songs sounded like crap, like poor demos, can't find words to describe the feeling. The lows sounded blurry, totally undefined and really boomy, the dynamics were out of control. I've had the same experience I had two years ago when I had the chance to work on them. I've remade the mixes on the kh 310 and they sound great on all other systems.

I'm keeping the kh 310, these are the best mix tool I have found, better than any other I've had the chance to use. Must say they are not fun at all, these are just that, amazing mixing tools.

God knows I tried, xD, but for me the Genelec story has finally ended. In my opinion, they lie like crazy.
Old 21st September 2021 | Show parent
  #163
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by just_manu ➡️
I've been producing on a pair of 8351A during a month. Me and my mates were really happy with how the tracks were sounding and we were ready to send them to the company. I brought to my studio the kh 310 again and we tested the songs on them just for curiosity. I must say it was a huge wtf in all of us. We couldn't believe what we were hearing, seriously. The songs sounded like crap, like poor demos, can't find words to describe the feeling. The lows sounded blurry, totally undefined and really boomy, the dynamics were out of control. I've had the same experience I had two years ago when I had the chance to work on them. I've remade the mixes on the kh 310 and they sound great on all other systems.

I'm keeping the kh 310, these are the best mix tool I have found, better than any other I've had the chance to use. Must say they are not fun at all, these are just that, amazing mixing tools.

God knows I tried, xD, but for me the Genelec story has finally ended. In my opinion, they lie like crazy.
I was picking between the Neumann, Focal, and Barefoot. And between sizes in each line. I went with Focal Twin6Be because I have a mid sized room, and because my focus is tracking, not mixing. Need excitement for tracking. Boring is for mixing and mastering, not tracking. IMHO
Old 21st September 2021 | Show parent
  #164
Gear Addict
 
just_manu's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yamaoka86 ➡️
Go and get the kh750 with MA1 for your kh310. I’m worked the last six years on the Neumann’s. Adding the sub to rhe 310 and correct the phase wirh MA1 was the best decision IMO. Give it a try some day.
Yes, I'm getting a pair of kh 750.

Thanks for your help!
Old 26th September 2022 | Show parent
  #165
Lives for gear
 
🎧 15 years
I’ve been using the ex machina quasars for about a month or so now. Let me. Start by saying that I was at a shoot out a vintage king. We listened to everything from the atc 25’s a45’s d&d 8c, barefoot mm26 and 27’s and a few other brands I can’t remember. The 2 stand outs were the barefoot mm26’s and the ex machina quasars by a long shot.

The main difference between the ex machina quasars and the mm26 was that the quasars sounded like they had a slight shelving eq 0n them. I ended up with the quasars and my friend ended up with the 26’s. We both hated the atc 45’s.

Everyone who has been in my room since is amazed by the sound and the wide sweet sweet spot. The low end is glorious and I’m hearing thins in recordings that I never knew where there. For example in radioheads 13steps, the is a pitched sub kick that is moving by something like a minor 3rd or perfect 4th (I don’t remember) that I didn’t know was there. Also, I am able to really hear how certain plugins affect the audio just by instantiating them. I’m making different choices now. Also for the first time I can hear what the maag eq plug-in at 40khz is actually doing. 1 or 2db eq moves are very apparent on these.

My only issue is that it is still a bit easier for me to dial in the punch of a kick on the Ns 10’s but in all fairness I’ve been using Ns 10’s since the 90’s so I’m not sure it fair to compare to something I’ve been using for 25 years…

My room is relatively small so I can’t use them in full calibration mode but the low end remains…regardless of low end. They are pretty amazing.

Ej
Old 27th September 2022 | Show parent
  #166
Lives for gear
 
Sugarnutz's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
At 16 yrs old I started tracking/mixing in my Dad’s studio on JBL 4320’s powered by a pair of McIntosh MC75 monoblocks, when I was 18 I moved into the mastering room working on a pair of Westlake TM1’s (one of the 1st six, hand-built original pairs) powered by Crown amps.

I’m over 60 now and setup a small mix rig with a pair of original Bowers & Wilkins DM603 S2’s powered by bridged pairs of a McIntosh MC7600 (325W/ch into 8 ohms) and a pair of no-name 4-ohm, 15” ported subs powered by a Hafler P7000 “Diablo” amp (500W/ch into 4-ohms) crossed over at 150Hz. These are in more of a mid-field setup around a base D-Command with an Avid Omni as my D/A. Most detailed monitor environment I’ve ever heard, I hear things in mixes and on CDs I’ve never noticed before. Doubt seriously if I have more than $2.5K in these total as all components were 2nd hand but in exceptional shape when I bought them. I also have a pair of Dynaudio BM5 Mk III for nearfields which I really like. Quality doesn’t have to cost a ton, but be open minded to listen and experiment if need be.

Last edited by Sugarnutz; 27th September 2022 at 11:20 PM..
Old 1 week ago | Show parent
  #167
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by eclipse ➡️
thanks not heard too much about the Ex Machina Pulsar
any other users?
thanks
Dave
I know this post is old as dirt. I picked up a pair MK1 Pulsars used, for a decent price. I don't have much to compare them to, and they aren't setup properly yet, but they are pretty amazing. I wish I had other brands and monitors to compare them to.
Old 2 days ago | Show parent
  #168
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
Ex-Machina Pulsar MKII

At the $10k+ level, there is a lot of subjectivity - Barefoot, Focal, PMC & ATC, etc., are going to be awesome. If you can't get a good mix, it's not the speaker. I can say that these provide a level-up detail on reverb trails that is better than my excellent Audeze headphone LCD MX-4, which I didn't think would be the case simply because of proximity to the ear. Prior I had the Focal B solo6s, and while they were game-changing for me when I bought them, the Pulsars are in a different league - especially the mid-high-end imaging (as they should be at 3x the price). The low end is super natural as well, but it doesn't feel hyped. And despite the size, as Dev said, "you can get right up on them and take the room out of the equation" This is 100% accurate. Imaging is wide detailed and incredible all around.

The core reason I went with ex-Machina is their absolute embrace of cutting-edge materials and computation. My day job is a machine learning executive - I've run innovation programs and always have embraced new technologies at some of the largest companies in the world.. I know firsthand that there are some game-changing technologies/techniques out there that offer only advantages compared to "tried and true" technologies. Some people might not like this approach, but I'm willing to give new ideas and techniques a shot. For the most part, I haven't been let down, pending you do your research prior. Look at the videos, Dev clearly knows his stuff. They seem to think of everything and push the limits in every facet in a way that isn't just 'technology for technology's sake" but in a legitimate attempt to maximize performance. They achieved this from my experience.

The only things that I'd highlight and gripe about even though they are still five stars in IMO.
-Latency on the full DSP setting isn't useable for live recordings monitoring. I was really worried about this at first, but the low latency setting takes care of this, and it's not a problem - even if you are live tracking through Guitar Amp plug-ins or VSTis. While it's not a big deal to reach around a flip the switch, I'm lazy and tend to just keep it on low latency settings because I feel it takes me out of the flow. It would be nice to have an app or front switch for simpler settings changes.

-Input sensitivity is lower than my other speakers. They can defiantly get loud enough to shake the room, but I have to crank my monitor controller/mix - Neve 5060 volume knob to 40-45% for basic listening/mixing and then 60-75% for a solid thump. Perhaps their more linear levels are advantageous and have something to do with the DSP. Not sure, and it's not a big deal, but I have to drive them more than my Folcals or Adams and thought they would be louder at lower levels. The cool thing is, though, I can mix at lower levels with them due to their unreal image.
Old 2 days ago | Show parent
  #169
Gear Maniac
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by just_manu ➡️
I've been producing on a pair of 8351A during a month. Me and my mates were really happy with how the tracks were sounding and we were ready to send them to the company. I brought to my studio the kh 310 again and we tested the songs on them just for curiosity. I must say it was a huge wtf in all of us. We couldn't believe what we were hearing, seriously. The songs sounded like crap, like poor demos, can't find words to describe the feeling. The lows sounded blurry, totally undefined and really boomy, the dynamics were out of control. I've had the same experience I had two years ago when I had the chance to work on them. I've remade the mixes on the kh 310 and they sound great on all other systems.

I'm keeping the kh 310, these are the best mix tool I have found, better than any other I've had the chance to use. Must say they are not fun at all, these are just that, amazing mixing tools.

God knows I tried, xD, but for me the Genelec story has finally ended. In my opinion, they lie like crazy.
Interesting, I was working on KH310s for two years and I could never nail the high end on them, it was always sounding kind of the same and midrange was never harsh, so I had to double check in my car and 80% of mixes I did on them needed revision. Fast forward to two months with 8351B + 7360 sub and all my issues disappeared, no more surprises and perfect translation even to phones and laptops, but it's a B model, not A. You got to be first person ever to say KH310 are harsh, funny how different we all hear.
Old 2 days ago | Show parent
  #170
Gear Addict
 
ozonepaul's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by kichal ➡️
Interesting, I was working on KH310s for two years and I could never nail the high end on them, it was always sounding kind of the same and midrange was never harsh, so I had to double check in my car and 80% of mixes I did on them needed revision. Fast forward to two months with 8351B + 7360 sub and all my issues disappeared, no more surprises and perfect translation even to phones and laptops, but it's a B model, not A. You got to be first person ever to say KH310 are harsh, funny how different we all hear.

I'm not sure 10500EUR vs 4200EUR is a fair comparison

Genelec 8351B = 8500 EUR/pair + Genelec 7360 Sub = 2000 EUR
Neumann KH310 = 4200 EUR/pair

So purely based on the price difference I'm not really surprised that you find the Genelec 8351B "better".

Me personally I'm super happy with my KH310s, I never had the kind of translation issues you experienced on them. During mixing if needed, I do some mix checks on my Sennheiser HD800 headphones and I honestly say: after testing the big brother, the 8361B I had zero motivation spending an extra 5000 EUR to "upgrade" to them. There was absolutely nothing (neither frequency nor spatial/panning wise) on the 8361 that I couldn't already clearly hear on my KH310+(70% wet sonarworks treated) HD800 combo. Don't misunderstand me: I'm not saying they sounded identical but as far useful mixing info presentation I couldn't say the 8361B was "better". eg. I expected some even tighter bass on the 8361B but I just did not prefer the bass on the 8361 compared to my KH310. Obviously it's a major factor that I know my KH310s inside out, so it's possible that the "familiarity of the sound" influenced my judgement. But as a counter argument: if you look at the measurements of these speakers (KH310, 8351/8361) eg. on audiosciencereview than there is not much objective/measurable quality difference between them (other than the power).

So if someone hates the "boring Neumann sound" or if price doesn't matter: than just buy the 8361, it's an exceptional speaker. But if the income your studio generates can't justify the 5000+ EUR price difference than I highly recommend the KH310. You can extend it with the KH750 sub + MA-1 linearizer/monitor alignment kit, than you buy a pair of HD800 or some other "analytical" cans (eg. a much cheaper but less "neutral" option is the Austrian Audio Hi-x65) and you've got still a good 3-4000 EUR left in your pocket without (at least in my experience) any monitoring quality degradation.


My 2 cents

Old 2 days ago | Show parent
  #171
Gear Maniac
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ozonepaul ➡️

I'm not sure 10500EUR vs 4200EUR is a fair comparison

Genelec 8351B = 8500 EUR/pair + Genelec 7360 Sub = 2000 EUR
Neumann KH310 = 4200 EUR/pair

So based on the price difference I'm not surprised that you find the Genelec 8351B "better".
Me personally I'm super happy with my KH310s, I never had the kind of translation issues you experienced on them. During mixing if needed, I do some mix checks on my Sennheiser HD800 headphones and I honestly say: after testing the big brother, the 8361B I had zero motivation spending an extra 5000 EUR to "upgrade" to them. There was absolutely nothing (neither frequency nor spatial/panning wise) on the 8361 that I couldn't already clearly hear on my KH310+HD800 combo.
If someone hates the "boring Neumann sound" or if price doesn't matter: than just buy the 8361, it's an exceptional speaker. But if the income your studio generates can't justify the 5000+ EUR price difference than I highly recommend the KH310. You can extend it with the KH750 sub + MA-1 linearizer/monitor alignment kit, than you buy a pair of HD800 or some other "analytical" cans (eg. a much cheaper but less "neutral" option is the Austrian Audio Hi-x65) and you've got still a good 3-4000 EUR left in your pocket.


My 2 cents

sure, even if KH310s are not the end of the game they are great and I actually think they are still a bargain for what they offer, even after the recent price bump. They should cost twice as much, like other comparable models of different manufacturers, as they compete in this price range anyway
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