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Good Mic for 00 size acoustic guitar.
Old 5th January 2020
  #1
Gear Nut
 
Good Mic for 00 size acoustic guitar.

Greetings everyone.
I've been reading here about mics for recording acoustic guitar & have come to the conclusion that the recommendations apply to full size guitars which have an inherent full bottom end. Most of these mics seem to have a bump in the high end BUT are reserved in the bottom end. Not sure it's what I need.
I wish to record finger style playing on a Huss & Dalton T-0014 rosewood, which has a spectacular, balanced sound, but lacks the full bottom end which is inherent in a full size acoustic. I'll need to assure capturing the bottom that this guitar does have without resorting to eq boost, while maintaining a brilliant top end.
I have Great River pre & eq units as well as dbx 160A compressor for mono recording (which were previously used for bass guitar recording), so I would appreciate any help with single mic as well as perhaps an alternative pair for stereo. My budget would accommodate a higher quality mono mic vs stereo approach. Thanks for your valued wisdom my friends. I hope I've posted in the appropriate place here. Be well.
B....
Old 5th January 2020
  #2
Lives for gear
 
pencilextremist's Avatar
 
9 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
a few I can think of would be

neumann km84i
neumann U87ai
Gefell UMT70S

but they require a decent sounding room and are all pretty sensitive to noise.
Old 6th January 2020 | Show parent
  #3
Gear Nut
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pencilextremist ➡️
a few I can think of would be

neumann km84i
neumann U87ai
Gefell UMT70S

but they require a decent sounding room and are all pretty sensitive to noise.
Thank you.
Old 7th January 2020
  #4
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Great suggestions.
You can also keep the same mic you would have used for a dreadnought but place it differently : closer to the soundhole but still directed towards the 12th fret.
Move your mic and use your ears ...most mics have enough low end to capture any guitar even a parlor.

The question of mono/stereo recording depends more of the context, the song itself...busy mix or sparse instrumentation with lots of space, and what you're trying to achieve.
Old 7th January 2020
  #5
Gear Maniac
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
I like all 3 of those suggestions and as an alternate, I think the Royer R121 may be worthy of consideration. It may not be the most conventional choice but it is a very fine sounding ribbon and depending on positioning it could possibly give you a little added weight in the lower registers thus maintaining that balance you desire.

Good Luck!
Old 7th January 2020
  #6
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
The first 3 suggested are great, to offer a few other options.

Sony C55P or any really good SDC. Some smaller stringed things sound best with an Octava that don't cost too much. One the cheap, could try a CM4.

Sanken, Schoeps, DPA, Earthwoks, many others make a great SDC.

Recording hacks is a great site to listen to many of them.

----edit after thinking----

Perhaps this is what the medium sized condenser mics are for. stuff with a cap in the 3/4" to 1/2" range. Neumann 102?

Another odd ball: Milab 96B
Old 7th January 2020
  #7
Lives for gear
 
voodoo4u's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Since you mentioned that budget wasn`t the biggest concern, consider a Neumann KM56. It has high end detail like a KM84 ( even more so) but the low end is richer, fuller. It`s the most balanced and detailed mic I know of for acoustic. It makes the guitar sound huge. PM me if you want to hear a sample.
Old 7th January 2020
  #8
Gear Nut
 
Thanks to all for your input. I'll need to think on this a bit more.
I was hoping to keep the cost sensible for this particular purpose. Some of these suggestions are really attractive but being in Canada, it's gonna cost me another 35% or so, over USD.
I heard a sample of finger style using the (mono) DPA 4011 & it was exquisite to my ears, but others seem to have mixed feelings about this mic. Any opinions?
Also, keeping in mind, mic compensation placement for acoustic guitar, I can't understand the adverse approval for the Neumann KM 184. Seems to me to be a sensible, reasonably priced choice for acoustic guitar. Anything I'm missing?
Thanks again in advance.
B.
Old 7th January 2020 | Show parent
  #9
Gear Maniac
 
1 Review written
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by B.... ➡️
Thanks to all for your input. I'll need to think on this a bit more.
I was hoping to keep the cost sensible for this particular purpose. Some of these suggestions are really attractive but being in Canada, it's gonna cost me another 35% or so, over USD.
I heard a sample of finger style using the (mono) DPA 4011 & it was exquisite to my ears, but others seem to have mixed feelings about this mic. Any opinions?
Also, keeping in mind, mic compensation placement for acoustic guitar, I can't understand the adverse approval for the Neumann KM 184. Seems to me to be a sensible, reasonably priced choice for acoustic guitar. Anything I'm missing?
Thanks again in advance.
B.
I can’t definitively answer that but believe many have used the older transformer based KM84 and preferred it by a good margin. The two sound different. I have not used the KM184 but I have heard it before and thought it was better than just ok.

I hope that helps!
Old 7th January 2020 | Show parent
  #10
Gear Nut
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fried fingers ➡️
I can’t definitively answer that but believe many have used the older transformer based KM84 and preferred it by a good margin. The two sound different. I have not used the KM184 but I have heard it before and thought it was better than just ok.

I hope that helps!
I think most feel the Km184 has too much going on in the top end compared to the KM84. But for acoustic guitar I would think that to be an advantage to capture the shimmer that too often seems to be hard to do justice to, & maintain some warmth of the wood > I REALLY like a tonal richness / sweetness in recordings of soloed finger style acoustic steel string guitar, & that seem to be a dilemma - with what most perceive to be a shortcoming of the KM184. I still hope it could be addressed with placement.
B.
Old 7th January 2020
  #11
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
I think in the long run you'll be happy you are recording a 14 fret 00 guitar. That size, or an OM are ideal for recording compared to large / deep bodied guitars. I agree you'll have to experiment with mic placement. If you are doing solo fingerstyle recordings I'd suggest recording in stereo; my favorite is a spaced pair setup.

Depending on your budget, you might want to consider Gefell M300 or M295. I use a pair of Gefell M296S omnis, but they are very susceptible to poor room characteristics.
Old 7th January 2020 | Show parent
  #12
Gear Nut
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck_S ➡️
I think in the long run you'll be happy you are recording a 14 fret 00 guitar. That size, or an OM are ideal for recording compared to large / deep bodied guitars. I agree you'll have to experiment with mic placement. If you are doing solo fingerstyle recordings I'd suggest recording in stereo; my favorite is a spaced pair setup.

Depending on your budget, you might want to consider Gefell M300 or M295. I use a pair of Gefell M296S omnis, but they are very susceptible to poor room characteristics.
Thanks Chuck. I came across this finger style (M295 vs DPA 4011 that I mentioned before.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvI9UnaAuX4
B.
Old 7th January 2020 | Show parent
  #13
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by B.... ➡️
Thanks Chuck. I came across this finger style (M295 vs DPA 4011 that I mentioned before.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvI9UnaAuX4
B.
If you're looking at this price range, also consider the Schoeps CMC6 with either the MK4 or MK41 capsule.
Old 7th January 2020
  #14
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
The 184 is a fine mic. But the old km84 is even better.
Too bright is not necessary a good thing in that application (too much fret/strings noise..)
Especially with a non vintage small body guitar.
The km84 has all the detail you need...in the end it sounds more real, warmer, more musical than its newer counterpart. (transformer)
They're expensive used ...and for good reason.
The Schoeps are great too if you want new mics.
Parlor size guitars are easier to record than 'big' guitars...Dreadnoughts low end needs to be tamed with EQ most of the time.
Old 7th January 2020
  #15
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swafford's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I use the same mics to record dreadnaughts as I do 00s.
Old 7th January 2020 | Show parent
  #16
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James Lehmann's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck_S ➡️
Depending on your budget, you might want to consider Gefell M300 or M295. I use a pair of Gefell M296S omnis, but they are very susceptible to poor room characteristics.
I have a pair of Gefell M296 omnis and wouldn't have thought to use them on acoustic guitar until I read through a couple of threads on here that suggested omni as an option.

(This thread was particularly helpful because it's one of those relative rarities where people actually posted clips of their recordings rather than just endless reams of wordy opinion: Your favorite Acoustic Guitar Recording Setup?)

So I tried a single M296...

What a wonderful sound, even given we had just set up quickly in the living room with some gobos. In fact, dare I say it, a bit of 'room' gave the sound room to breathe. Also the guitarist immediately commented: "That's a fabulous bottom end" when he heard the playback. (Can't share unreleased clip just yet - sorry).

---

EDIT: Just got permission to share...



Recording notes:
Guitar: Blueridge BR160
Chain: Single Gefell M296, DAV BG2 MkIV Preamp, Metric Halo 2882 @ 24/96k
Treatment: Clean take in, post was a little EQ cut at 170Hz, some light compression and levelling in Ozone 8, otherwise dry

We can quibble all day about placement – and I may not have got that spot-on here – but the natural-sounding depth and detail that the M296 brings to the table is, well... judge for yourself. For sure, it's the most articulate and beautiful mic in my locker!

---

In summary then, I would say the single omni technique might be an avenue worth exploring for your guitar, rather than necessarily shooting for stereo every time. Yes, you need a nice sounding space, but you won't know how that works out until you try it.

Last edited by James Lehmann; 8th January 2020 at 03:29 PM..
Old 7th January 2020
  #17
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
If Schoeps or vintage km84s are too expensive...km184s are fine but there are better options :
Gefell m295/m296/m300
Beyer mc930
Even the oktava mk012s (modded) are not bad(cardio/omni)
Don't forget the old U87 (LDC but works very well on acoustics)
Ribbon mics can be really good too..it depends what you're looking for.
Old 7th January 2020
  #18
Lives for gear
 
massimo's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Tons of great comments and tips! Regarding the 184, I believe it also depends on the context. I have found it unsuitable for solo fingerstyle work: to my ears it is not how much high freq lift there is, rather that it sounds unpleasant and "artificial" (for the lack of a better word) in that very region. I vastly preferred my Schoeps cmc5 with cardioid capsule. Now I also have a Neumann km84 and km88, and those are also wonderful and they sound so "natural". Having said that, I understand that a km184 could work perfectly in a busier mix with a strummed guitar, it is a very popular Neumann mic after all!
Old 7th January 2020
  #19
Lives for gear
 
schoeps mk22
Old 7th January 2020
  #20
Lives for gear
 
James Lehmann's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Mike Senior at Sound On Sound magazine wrote a great article on micing acoustic guitar here and best of all he included numerous accompanying audio clips here. It's a brilliant resource.

Hugh Robjohns of the same magazine also included some very revealing acoustic guitar clips when he later reviewed the Gefell M300 mics because he shot the review pair out directly against KM184s and KM84s: https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews...ch-gefell-m300.
Old 7th January 2020 | Show parent
  #21
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by B.... ➡️
Thanks Chuck. I came across this finger style (M295 vs DPA 4011 that I mentioned before.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvI9UnaAuX4
B.
I listened to the recordings. I agree that the 4011 sounded really nice. However, while I give credit to anyone putting in the effort to do a mic comparison I believe results are not always fully representative. For example, I'm not sure the distance for the Gefell M295 was optimal, the recordings were of different takes, and I'm not sure of the level matching between takes. Still, it gives a sense of what you might expect (note however this was done in a studio and your results may not be anywhere near the same).

Also, I'm not sure of your purpose for your recordings. If for example, you are primarily seeking a very nice recorded sound you may not be overly concerned whether your recording sounds just like your guitar. If that's your intent, then some mics and recording gear that add some coloration may be best. If you are primarily seeking to get a recording that sounds just like your instrument, then you may want to find the mic and recording gear with the most 'realism/transparency'.
Old 7th January 2020 | Show parent
  #22
Lives for gear
 
MikeInOttawa's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by B.... ➡️
I was hoping to keep the cost sensible for this particular purpose. Some of these suggestions are really attractive but being in Canada, it's gonna cost me another 35% or so, over USD.
What town in Canada are you in?

One thing you might want to do is find a local studio that has a good selection of mics, and spend a few bucks in that studio to test some mics. If you're in Montréal, you might be able to rent the mics from Studio Economik.

In terms of the mics suggested, I'd probably go with the Gefell UMT70S as it's a multi-pattern mic, so it's quite flexible in terms of what you can do with it. I have one and think it's fantastic.

The other mic I'd suggest is the M295. I don't have one- yet -but whenever I read about it on here, the other word that always comes up is "stunning".

The other thing I'd suggest is to buy a new mic. I used to buy used mics, but have decided that I want something that's in pristine condition. It's more expensive, but worth it to me.
Old 7th January 2020 | Show parent
  #23
Gear Nut
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by massimo ➡️
..... to my ears it is not how much high freq lift there is, rather that it sounds unpleasant and "artificial" (for the lack of a better word) in that very region. I vastly preferred my Schoeps cmc5 with cardioid capsule. ....
Good point. I can't seem to find availability for the cmc5 in Canada.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NathanBarley ➡️
schoeps mk22
Thanks. What do you use it on? (cmc5 ?)
Old 7th January 2020 | Show parent
  #24
Gear Nut
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Lehmann ➡️
Your favorite Acoustic Guitar Recording Setup?)

So I tried a single M296...
...I would say the single omni technique might be an avenue worth exploring for your guitar, rather than necessarily shooting for stereo every time....
Thanks for the link. I agree with your omni ( but more challenging), approach also. When I hear a solo artist play - it's not stereo. But that's another topic I suppose.
Old 7th January 2020
  #25
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
I agree with Mike, a mic with multiple polar patterns gives you more options (you need a good enough room though)
The UMT70S is a great underrated mic.
However I always feel if someone's gonna spend that kinda money he might as well get a U87 (so versatile and easy to sell)

I've bought 50% of my gear used and had very few problems.
At the studio where I freelance we have some 40/50 yrs old mics that beat all the most expensive new mics we have.
Mics need maintenance from time to time, old or new.
That said I always inspect/test the mic and would not buy on Reverb/Ebay (unless the price is super low but that era is long gone)
Yesterday a U48 went for over $11000 on ebay .. I don't know how people throw that kind of money with just a picture of a mic

Knowing the kind of music you're trying to record/craft would help, as the choice of mics and recording techniques depends on it.
Old 7th January 2020 | Show parent
  #26
Gear Nut
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeInOttawa ➡️
What town in Canada are you in?

One thing you might want to do is find a local studio that has a good selection of mics, and spend a few bucks in that studio to test some mics. If you're in Montréal, you might be able to rent the mics from Studio Economik.

In terms of the mics suggested, I'd probably go with the Gefell UMT70S as it's a multi-pattern mic, so it's quite flexible in terms of what you can do with it. I have one and think it's fantastic.

The other mic I'd suggest is the M295. I don't have one- yet -but whenever I read about it on here, the other word that always comes up is "stunning".

The other thing I'd suggest is to buy a new mic. I used to buy used mics, but have decided that I want something that's in pristine condition. It's more expensive, but worth it to me.
Thanks for your input Mike. I'm in Toronto. Where do you purchase your mics? Those are 2 mics that have been recommended here before.
B.
Old 7th January 2020
  #27
Lives for gear
 
pencilextremist's Avatar
 
9 Reviews written
🎧 5 years
beyer m160n sounds great if you want to use a ribbon mic, I've been surprised at how good it can sound on acoustic guitar especially with a cloudlifter.
Old 7th January 2020
  #28
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Solo project? Singer songwriter? full band mix? Style?
Microphones are like paintbrushes & colors ...
Old 7th January 2020
  #29
Lives for gear
 
voodoo4u's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Here's a flamenco(ish) track recorded with a km 56 for anyone interested.
Attached Files

KM 56 Sample.mp3 (1.16 MB, 2671 views)

Old 7th January 2020 | Show parent
  #30
Lives for gear
 
MikeInOttawa's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by B.... ➡️
Thanks for your input Mike. I'm in Toronto. Where do you purchase your mics? Those are 2 mics that have been recommended here before.
B.
Studio Economik in Montréal. They sell some very very nice gear.

With the Gefells, you'll also need to buy a shockmount. I got the Rycote InVision kit with the attached pop filter.

Delivery is free, especially for something that expensive. They ship using a courier, not Canada Post, so if you're not at home when they drop your package off, you might have to go to the company's depot- I'm not all that fond of doing that. I'd rather go to a Canada Post outlet as it's always near home.

BTW- here's a thread that may interest you- the most recent post is a spaced pair of Gefell M296s.

Your favorite Acoustic Guitar Recording Setup?
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